Lizardman Matchups

what are you talking about?

april fools?

i guess i should be spacing better
 
From my experience:
(not in order)
Bad - Mina, Sieg, Voldo, Kilik, Cerv, Algol, Ivy
Fair - Asta, Maxi, Hilde, Sophie, Rock, Amy, X, Mitsu, Apprentice, Yoshi, Raph
Prey - Nightmare, Taki, Cassie, Yun, Vader, Setsuka, Tira

Haven't fought many good talims, or Zas with LM to place them,
and yeah, Mina is really his worst match up IMO.
 
escaped soul- i dont really see how you came to some of those conclusions regarding the bad matchups.

it almost seems as though you have problems with longger range fighters. this really shouldnt be the case with liz. he has plenty of mid to long range tools to space and whiff punish with. i'd really like to see why you think they are bad.

echeese- asta gets owned by 44AB. if you dont delay it he cant GI the 2nd hit and he cant punish it. SCs in 8.

now that my regular comp blocks 1K a majority of the time, i have started to play a heavily CF based lizardman. he has the tools to get the job done easily if you know how to utilize them.
 
sadly after playing last night, i found out i was mistaken. my friend(suirad) was incorrect about him not being able to GI it. even so, the way the buffer system works in this game he said it was still hard to time it right because of the initial blockstun from 44A, he ended up eating quite a few of the second hit because of this. he had a much easier time GIing the 2nd hit if i did 44[A].

also if they start wanting to GI it, if you only do 44A you can punish their whiff GI with 3B.

i have just really started to taking a liking to 44AB for its incredible SG damage, especially against characters that cant punish it well or at all.

in a session last night that lasted for 60 matches we went about even maybe like 27-30 in his favor. in those 27 wins i had 19 CFs and quite a few KOs from him panicing when his SG was almost gone.

people tend to want to step when they are in the red, especially against liz, but with 44AB breaking in 8 and 4A breaking in 13 you can still get the CF even if they are Step guarding.
 
so we are officially the least active SA right now and with evo approaching that just wont do. lets start talking some strat or matchups or SOMETHING FOR GODS SAKE!!!!!

so i only have 2 other people to play locally and all of us together only play a handful of characters. i need some matchup advice against a few of the other characters that may be a threat.

some characters i'm not familiar with are

Sieg
kilik
Cervy
setsuka
yun seong
cassandra

any specific stuff for these characters would be appreciated.

i have some stuff to say about the sophie matchup i'll post later. (god damn is her aGI annoying)
 
Kab, Since we're both in Florida, I'd love to play you sometime, though Don't expect an epic battle, Lizzy man really kicks my ass because no one plays him and I have no experience vs a decent one. Guy has surprisingly hard range to beat and retarded anti-step in 66A.
 
kAb said:
Sieg
kilik
Cervy
setsuka
yun seong
cassandra
Click to expand...

I'd say my biggest problem on that list is Sieg, though I'm not really familiar with his stance shifts so that definitely contributes to some headaches. Plus, Liz has nothing scary to punish blocked 3 with and discourage its use, especially from max range. He also can't interrupt blocked WSB -> K (though most can't). There's also nothing more annoying than getting 3Bed out of LC B :(. It just seems Sieg can space me out well.

Don't have much experience against good Cervys or Setsukas.

Yun doesn't have much against Lizzy imo. Alot of his pokes are negative on hit so I've found its pretty easy get in on him and keep pressure as long as I watch out for 44B and 3K or 66K him out of CR setups.

Liz vs. Cass seems pretty even, maybe even a little in Liz' favor. I tend use less LC against her out of fear of getting 236ed, crouch thrown, or jumped over into BT B+K. She's real linear and 66K is a good punisher for blocked 236Bs and 1As. The big plus is that her 1K consistently whiffs on Liz, even right next to him. Thank you shitty hit detection.

Outside of that my biggest problems are with X, Algol, Voldo, Sophie.

IMO Liz doesn't get outclassed easily because he's got some great tools and big damage.
 
Any character with fast pokes to fight lizard with, or longer range to stunt lizardman's short range offer up a real challenge for lizardman to get around..
 
Why is this area dead? Lizardman r the coolest and funnest character evar!!

Siegfried is my main but Lizardman is one of my favorite characters, and im a little better than decent with him. Guess you could call him secondary character. Anyways here are the stances of Siegfried


I'd say my biggest problem on that list is Sieg, though I'm not really familiar with his stance shifts so that definitely contributes to some headaches. Plus, Liz has nothing scary to punish blocked 3 with and discourage its use, especially from max range. He also can't interrupt blocked WSB -> K (though most can't). There's also nothing more annoying than getting 3Bed out of LC B :(. It just seems Sieg can space me out well.
Click to expand...


Siegfried's stances

Stances

SBH- Base Hold Stance- Achieved by pressing . This stance has Siegfried take a stationary position with his sword in front of him at an angle. The sword has a constant guard impact effect in the state, and will deflect horizontal mid and low attacks while ducking high attacks, excluding physical hits (kicks, Nightmare's fist, etc.), and retaliate with SBH attack . If done early enough, you will get the GI, but be able to choose which attack you launch from SBH.

SCH- Chief Hold Stance - This is stance in characterized by Siegfried holding his sword behind his back by pressing or . You can slowly strafe left or right in this position. If done with his back turned, the sword will have a few frames or guard impact ability (horizontals), in which you can draw in your opponent and launch them with .
Btw: 3 Leads into Chief Hold stance, and 3 is a nightmare for Lizardman since it can interrupt him on so many levels, espicially in Crawling Stance.

SSH- Side Hold Stance- By pressing , you can go into this stance, in which Siegfried is holding his sword to the side (visible side, if you are on the 1P side). Be careful, as his other stance looks nearly the same, but is very different.

SRSH- Reverse Side Hold Stance- Go into this stance with or . Siegfried is now holding his sword on the opposite side that he did for SSH. This stance is known for its quick low combo (SRSH [K] A+B), so others may see it coming if it's done on its own.
 
ok for realz now ... matchup discussions

I find a good sophie or cass to be a bad matchup for Liz because of their crazy punish capabilities ... they can punish for 1/3+ life just for attempting to enter crawl ... sophie's worse than cass, she can even deathfist through a blocked 4[B+K] into LC A even though 4[B+K] is +2 on blk ... i believe this may be the only scenario where LC A+B may GI the deathfist, gotta test it

the reason this crap is a problem is because it will be very hard to get those tough punishers to crouch besides attempting throws since they're not afraid of 1[K] shenanigans & punishable 2K's

they way I get around it is obviously to avoid crawl mixups but more importantly two things:

a) play safer and set up throws more
b) don't forget to work Liz's incredible SC game into your mixups ... more than usual ....
 
a) play safer and set up throws more
b) don't forget to work Liz's incredible SC game into your mixups ... more than usual ....
Click to expand...

I'm playing Lizardman to an extent where I always wait for whiffs from the opponent and when i'm out of options to defend myself from an incoming attack its 214B+G time. I'm finding my self throwing allot more with Lizardman than any other character. didn't know Liz had a great SC, unfortuantately i dont have a button set to A+b+K+G

Also bad matchup? at least I think is Rock, can he grab you from Crawling Stance?

Good Matchup: Nightmare, most of Nightmare's "Dash Stance" (Due to lack of knowledge) can be punished with 4B or 4B+K/4B+K G.
 
yes, Rock can grab you out of crawl
nah, i don't think he's a bad matchup ... although it's definitely not safe to just walk around with LC against him ...

Asta, Rock, X, and Cass can all grab you out of crawl ... the 4 chars with crouch throws ... just postin it up for the newbies
 
It's really just not a good idea to use too much LC against characters with crouch-throws, since you basically force a mix-up on yourself even after stuff like LC A.
 
Anyone help me with X?

I know this Soul Arena is pretty dead but it seems like she's got everything on Lizardman-- up close he's completely outsped, any time you whiff she can punish majorly, and she can easily hit you out of crawl with that one sword thrust move (66A+B?) because it has massive forward range, or she can even low throw you out of it.

I'm seriously having trouble fighting Xianghua (for the most part just her), anyone got any tips on this matchup?
 
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