[MATCH-UP] Viola

I'm amazed this thread hasn't had any activity yet. Viola is an absolute terror against Raph. If anyone has any matchup tips whatsoever, please, let us hear them.
 
I don't think this is too bad for Raph actually. Raph can guess his way out of her pressure with things like 44B, 8B, and 6BB. She doesn't counter Prep or SE very well either. She does do a fuckton more damage though.
 
Viola's biggest weakness has to be her lack of range. I'd say stay out of her 3B and 44ABE at any cost, don't let her get in close, focus on punishing whiffs. Also, aside from 44ABE, which only works at close range, viola doesn't really have threatening horizontals, so step to escape her orb pressure and punish whenever possible.

If she does get in your face, it is not a bad idea to use metter for GI on this matchup. Escaping her godlike offense is essential, and GI is maybe the best option for that. Hope it helps
 
Delloso said:
If she does get in your face, it is not a bad idea to use metter for GI on this matchup, as viola post re GI game isn't very good.
Click to expand...
I agree with the necessity of using GI, but for a different reason. Her post-GI game is actually extremely good (3B for immediate launch is 72ish damage meterless, 6B+K → 6B as a delay option is 108 damage). However, her meter game is absolutely the most threatening aspect of her (bomb setups off 6B+K mixups, 44A BE for stepkill) and taking that away from her mid-field is advantageous enough to make up for the possibility of losing a GI mixup. Worst comes to worst (i.e. opponent is consistently coming out ahead in GI mindgames), you can just GI into a throw mixup to take no risk and only go for combos when she has no meter to re-GI.

A lot of Viola's main offense tools don't tech crouch and she's going to be attacking a lot, so throwing out 6BB and CH confirming into the BE might be a good strategy. Unfortunately you still risk eating a 3B, but that's par for the course when fighting Viola. If you're having trouble landing GIs and have meter left over, definitely go for the CE punish on her 3B whenever possible.
 
Slade said:
I agree with the necessity of using GI, but for a different reason. Her post-GI game is actually extremely good (3B for immediate launch is 72ish damage meterless, 6B+K → 6B as a delay option is 108 damage). However, her meter game is absolutely the most threatening aspect of her (bomb setups off 6B+K mixups, 44A BE for stepkill) and taking that away from her mid-field is advantageous enough to make up for the possibility of losing a GI mixup. Worst comes to worst (i.e. opponent is consistently coming out ahead in GI mindgames), you can just GI into a throw mixup to take no risk and only go for combos when she has no meter to re-GI.

A lot of Viola's main offense tools don't tech crouch and she's going to be attacking a lot, so throwing out 6BB and CH confirming into the BE might be a good strategy. Unfortunately you still risk eating a 3B, but that's par for the course when fighting Viola. If you're having trouble landing GIs and have meter left over, definitely go for the CE punish on her 3B whenever possible.
Click to expand...
Thanks for correcting me on that, Slade. I'll delete the misinformation
 
I do agree that this is a pretty good match-up for Raphael. Last I checked you can 4B and B+K like a champ in this fight.

I have a buddy who mains her pretty hard, so it might just be match-up knowledge giving me an edge, but every time I fight her I just look forward to a lot of her "Overpowered" setups so as to counter them with the flashiest (not always hardest hitting,) counters.

Jump her Orb all day, wassup. (Shame he's good at orb cancels now...)
 
Interesting stuff so far. I'll have to playtest it when I have the chance. In my experience, I've found that she tech crouches a fair bit and SE is a risky move. Mid range is apparently where she's weakest, but I have yet to capitalise on this.

Zanaken: Explain how you apply B+K. All of my research has shown that it does not work against the orb, vertical or not.
 
Like someone said already, Viola has one of the best post GI games in the game because of 3b, 6b+k, and 44A BE. Only downside is that she has t use meter to GI and Viola liks to hold on to her meter.

Regardless, lots of the right idea in this topic.
 
I'll have to put that to the test then. Until you brought it up, I was convinced that Raph's B+K and auto-GIs do not work against Viola's orb or E.I.N.

Thanks for the input, guys. I'd thought that Viola was a terrible matchup for Raph. Hopefully I can put this to use. If there's any more, please keep it coming.
 
Due to Raph's 236B's odd alignment: If you see a Viola attempt a 2B+K from a distance, you can just throw out a 236B. If you're fast you can nail her, and if you're slow, the resutling stagger from the blockstun will cause the orb returning to viola to whiff you.
 
WuHT said:
I have not achieved anything where B+K evades the orb, only the initial attack of 6A+B.

Explain please
Click to expand...

I encountered this problem last night too. Varied the timing as much as I possibly could, but the orb cannot be evaded, and evading the claw is pointless, as the orb will hit before the counterattack.

However, Prep will work against 6A+B at range, as it evades any high attack into SE, and the orb is high-hitting. 4B ducks under the orb too, which is nice.

The only orb attack that I've managed to evade with B+K so far is 3B - which is admittedly huge, as the move is so dangerous and overused. I imagine Prep Backstep will GI it as well, but haven't had time to check yet.

I haven't been able to parry anything with 4A+B (high/mid horizontals) or 8A+B (horizontals and thrusts). It's almost as if the game thinks they're kicks.
 
dunno if this was known but i find FC3b and 33kBE work great against bb into orb trick. the first ducks it while beating what ever the input for pierce through is and the 2nd just sidesteps the whole shit but loses to horizontals. also 3b into manual SE will avoid 3b as a prep counter
 
Zanaken said:
I do agree that this is a pretty good match-up for Raphael. Last I checked you can 4B and B+K like a champ in this fight.

I have a buddy who mains her pretty hard, so it might just be match-up knowledge giving me an edge, but every time I fight her I just look forward to a lot of her "Overpowered" setups so as to counter them with the flashiest (not always hardest hitting,) counters.

Jump her Orb all day, wassup. (Shame he's good at orb cancels now...)
Click to expand...
Yep, I agree. The pressure is really on Viola to get around Raph's range. Raph can also punish her ball tricks from a long distance.
 
youngfox said:
dunno if this was known but i find FC3b and 33kBE work great against bb into orb trick. the first ducks it while beating what ever the input for pierce through is and the 2nd just sidesteps the whole shit but loses to horizontals. also 3b into manual SE will avoid 3b as a prep counter
Click to expand...

3B is a mid, which destroys SE, so you have to make you're out of range before ducking, so that it'll whiff (or have I misunderstood you?). Also, Prep Backstep will GI 3B - with or without Orb - so if you're already in Prep and expecting a 3B, I'd use that option and follow up with guaranteed A+B or kBE. B+K will also auto-evade it.

I now have a theory (which I'd love to be disproven) that E.I.N. and the Orb register as kicks, which is why characters like Xiba and Cervantes can auto-GI them and Raph can't; their auto-GIs work against kicks, while Raph's explicitly do not.

So far, 3B is the only exception I've found to this. This seems to be because it's one of the only moves that's actually an extension of Viola's arm (i.e. the same way that swords, axes etc. are for every other character in the series; the move is even called Capricornus Sword) whereas usually she'll make a gesture with her hands and the orb will move on its own path and rhythm, as a separate entity from Viola.

Thus, 3B w/ Orb registers as a weapon vertical, making it valid for B+K and Prep Backstep. 66A+B behaves similarly, so I'll be testing that next.

If any has evidence to the contrary, please speak up. Also, has anyone managed to 4A+B any Orb moves?
 
provided her back isnt to a wall Raph can do 3b to immediate SE and that creates enough distance for her 3b to whiff
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back