Matchup Discussion: Leixia VS. Cervantes

MystSilver

[09] Warrior
All his BEs that aren't 4B BE are hilariously punishable on reaction. Make him regret spending meter. His CE is also duckable on reaction or JGable if you want to show off. From the punishment thread:

6B BE - 6KK, GI the second hit, aGI the second hit with 4A+B, sidestep second hit in either direction to make him ring himself out at a great distance. They'd best not be using this on your guard.
22_88A BE - Sidestep the second hit in either direction, GI, or aGI with 4A+B. This works even if you're hit by the first hit, and they can't delay the yellow flash.
WR A+B BE - Sidestep last hit either direction, GI, aGI with 4A+B
They're all slide BEs too, so he can't delay the yellow and fake you out.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
The problem is, Cervantes really doesn't need any other BEs aside from 4B(BE) and his A Throw. He can spend meter more effectively with those and GIs/CEs. He does enough damage without meter anyway to take control of the match.

On the plus side, Leixia can really take advantage of her numerous highs since Cervy doesn't TC very well, and she can still poke around and bait whiffs until he has to come to her. She can also punish him pretty effectively with 6KK on alot of his better moves.
 

Age_of_Truth

[12] Conqueror
I should post this here before I forget, it was some things I thought of when talking to ZE about this matchup. Feel free to take on board, analyse, criticise etc. It's basic stuff really, but the basics are the most important.

...Imo an important thing to do against Cervantes is to take his tools away one by one. This means punishing 3B with AA, his mid anti-steps (like 3A+B or WR AB etc.) with 6KK, and 66A with AA if he didn't space it right.

Many of his knockdowns put you at mid-range, and a lot of Cervy players like to use 33B as oki, because it does a ton of damage if you stay down or attack, and busts your guard guage too. But it's quite an easy (relatively speaking) attack to Just Guard in this situation, so you can do that to discourage him further.

You have to be very careful about whiffing or stepping at the wrong time at any range, because he can hit you and surprise you with the gunshots (incl. CE) and 4A+B.

At close range you have to stay still. Reading 1AB once or twice and punishing severely will really help, because he'll be afraid to go for chip damage and have to stick to mids. But until he does, you don't really want to step at close range. Once he's scared to do 1AB, then you can step (mainly to beat 3B and 1BB).

After 4B BE, Leixia's 4A+B can be timed to beat a BT B+K attempt for a lot of damage. If he's scared to do BT B+K, the mixup actually isn't that great for him any more, because he's BT and can't do any other damaging moves except throws. If he delays or throws, 3B will beat the big options and only lose to weak options like basic BT attacks (2K, 2A etc.)

Without meter, his B throw is stronger, it's worth remembering. Always remember the A throw RO potential, it flings you a long way.

Big problem in this MU is aB. It's one of the best moves in the game. Leixia's kind of lucky in that she can punish it from most ranges with 3B or 6KK, but you need to play Cervantes a lot to get used to punishing it, because the blockstun is so short. Also he can punish some of your 3B with aB, which makes it more risky than against other characters (his punish does nearly the same damage as the staple 3B, 3B+K combo, so risk-reward becomes bad)...
Yep 4B BE is brainless move. It means you have to be careful of any movement, even at mid range. I said to Docvizzo once that when you play Cervantes you have to freeze - which makes sense as he has a gun. At longer range, you can step more freely and bait 66A to block punish or crouch punish. But be careful because CE will usually catch sidestep.
...
Only thing about 4B BE being 'spammable' is that it uses up his meter, so you sort of get a small victory if he doesn't get a successful mix-up after. But still an amazing move.
...
Oh one last thing, beware of his 9B+K. Quite often I get people against a wall, or edge, and spam mid and low attacks, but you can't do that against Cervantes, cos he can jump over you and get a RO or massive wall combo.
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
Is the "severe punishment" of his 1AB, 3B 3B+K or are you talking about something else? Because I think Leixia is one of the worst characters in the game to punish moves like Cervantes' 1AB or iGDR.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Is the "severe punishment" of his 1AB, 3B 3B+K or are you talking about something else? Because I think Leixia is one of the worst characters in the game to punish moves like Cervantes' 1AB or iGDR.
From my experience, I will almost always have a CE when I finally block this move. Because it's unseeable, you'll rarely take the risk of blocking it anyway. (Taking NH 1AB is better than NH 2A+B or 3B obviously). Without that, yeah, not much damage.
 

Age_of_Truth

[12] Conqueror
Is the "severe punishment" of his 1AB, 3B 3B+K or are you talking about something else? Because I think Leixia is one of the worst characters in the game to punish moves like Cervantes' 1AB or iGDR.
Yep you're right, I guess I was just thinking generally at that point rather than specific Leixia-orientated strategy. Still don't think 1AB is that bad though. V. unsafe, chip damage. If you step then, well, the Cervy player did an anti-step, so they earned their damage. It's an excellent move, no doubt, just not ridiculous like 4B BE or aB.
 

zappy

[08] Mercenary
Sure for 7-3 maybe more...1AB is free in this match up, Cervy have a really better gard burst game ( 33B/4B BE ), really better grab game, really better spacing game, really really better damage, and a better range.

He is safer ( don't need to do random aB, 3A, 3B ), the only think Leixia can punish against a safe cervantes is 66A, 2K, 1AB and some random 3B but is not néssécary used.

Cervantes can play agressive against Leixia and mix with his broken backdash ( he have a really good backdash and wiff punish with 100 damage -> 3B ) or he can play with poke like bA ( punishable with 6BA but difficult ), 6A, kB, 1AB, 66B, 33B !! ect...and punish her errors.

Leixia musn't have to use random crusher and have to be carful to her frame traps because she always exposed to 100 damage wiff punish. +CH 1AB.

Leixia's 66K is really dangerous to use because step punish ( 100 dmg ).

+ Leixia have to be carful to Cervantes randoms actions when she don't have meter because she will not do more than 50 dmg.
If Cervy win a random mind game he do 100 dmg without meter...
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
So has anyone's opinion about this matchup changed at all? If I'm being honest, there are days where I feel like this matchup isn't as severe as I once thought. (ie: 4/6 instead of 3/7). The issues with range, damage, and lack of amazing punishers on Leixia's end are still there, but the fact that she can punish almost all his better moves can really cause Cerv players to lose composure at times.

Her CE is a threat in this matchup as well, since it takes care of WS K, BB, and 66B which aren't easily punished otherwise.

Also, found recently that Leixia can get a CH AAB or AA BE punish if Cerv tries baiting you with whiffed bA. For some reason he is stuck in CH state even during the aGI.

Maybe I'm just being overly optimistic here, but since it's been awhile, I'm wondering where other Lex players stand.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
I'll be online towards the end of the week. (Fri-Sat mostly.) You can PM me when you'll be available.
I've been needing to force myself back into the online grind anyway, lol.
 

Kalas

[13] Hero
Lol. Guess that's a no then.
To be honest with you, I have just no idea.
I can count the number of occassions where I could play a Cervantes-player with one hand.
I personally think that Cervantes is part of the top 3 most difficult Leixia MUs. But I don't really have the experience to prove, explain or refute it.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
To be honest with you, I have just no idea.
I can count the number of occassions where I could play a Cervantes-player with one hand.
I personally think that Cervantes is part of the top 3 most difficult Leixia MUs. But I don't really have the experience to prove, explain or refute it.
Yeah I get you. He definitely could be, and has all the tools to suggest it. That's why I wasn't sure if I was just trying being optimistic or not. I'm surprised there aren't more Cerv players worldwide since I feel he's much more beginner friendly in SCV than his previous versions.

Right now, my feeling is that Hilde, Alpha, and Natsu are her 3 worst. Well... assuming we're not counting Viola.
 

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
Pardon my offtopicness, but what about Ivy? As a Leixia scrub, I feel crushed by her.
From my experience what Leixia really has going for her, is that 66K will hit Ivy out of her evades. (3B/214B). Ivy does have a decent punisher in 6B8,K and a great backdash which can help her in the midrange game though. Fortunately, Ivy's frames on block aren't the greatest at that range. So Leixia can close in for mixups more often. I don't think it's quite even, but still only slightly in Ivy's favor.
 

Pocky-Yoshi

[14] Master
From my experience what Leixia really has going for her, is that 66K will hit Ivy out of her evades. (3B/214B). Ivy does have a decent punisher in 6B8,K and a great backdash which can help her in the midrange game though. Fortunately, Ivy's frames on block aren't the greatest at that range. So Leixia can close in for mixups more often. I don't think it's quite even, but still only slightly in Ivy's favor.
Sorry for the late reply and scrub questions, but what moves does leixia have to fear from ivy?
 

M1sguidedAngel

[08] Mercenary
I believe Ivy has the advantage against Lexia because Lexia is a fairly close range character where as Ivy can attack from close mid and far.
attacks that I use when against Lexia (while using ivy) is B+K and 8A+B


Back to Lexia vs Cervantes, Lexia has the upper hand because most of cervantes BE attacks can easily be punished by Lexia and a lot his attacks are slow enough to be dodged or blocked whereas Lexia has quick attacks that are random and unpredictable...
 

MTfighter

[09] Warrior
misguided, the thread has a lot of information as to why leixia struggles against cervy. but the short version is the damage desparity between the two of them imo.