- Admin
- #301
GreatOne1939
I Knew It!!!
I think you may be speaking on this:
http://caliburforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34608&referrerid=41743
Belial is truly a genius and he is my hero. Even if he is Russian...
Mitsu General Discussion / Q&A
- Thread starter Syrpiektre
- Start date
I think you may be speaking on this:
http://caliburforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34608&referrerid=41743
Belial is truly a genius and he is my hero. Even if he is Russian...
- Moderator
- #302
Belial
King of Hundred Swords
Well, yeah thats the topic, but actually while this thread is no doubt useful in a way, I think some of the stuff is a bit outtdated and I'd made corrections to that by now. So take it with a grain of salt.
Russians are just as your average american, despite we have bad manners usually, just give us some time.
Why thank you. Although Im not that nice, usually I have this Athene attitude "You're pro or your a noob", despite realizing its not very adult.
Russians are just as your average american, despite we have bad manners usually, just give us some time.
- Admin
- #303
GreatOne1939
I Knew It!!!
Corrections? Where can we see these corrections? And I'm a perma-noob (at playing games but I still love this series). I know this so it bothers me not at all to have it pointed out to me. However I can say that watching how you play, reading what you post, and just listening to what you say I have improved exponentially. So what ever the manners online, you are still my SC hero.
Just got back from offline with Zaigonen, fighting Rugi as Siegfried has proved difficult but I've got my defence covered now, 2KB JUKEs, shutting down mist, shutting down relic at range, BUT:
As Mitsu, what are the risks of each of his options after RLC K on normal hit, as it causes me to lock up still (I'm well aware of the rewards already) =S
As Mitsu, what are the risks of each of his options after RLC K on normal hit, as it causes me to lock up still (I'm well aware of the rewards already) =S
Mavericks42O
[09] Warrior
there is no shutting down Mist or Relic. you can simply hope to contain them. if your shutting them down then your opponent isnt using his stances correctly.
Senzait
Steamed Buns!!
Im not exactly sure if this is what your asking for and i'm not the most knowledgeable Mitsu, but after RLC [K] Mitsu is at +3, If he attempts to go for RLC [A] right after he'll be at -6 in Mist, at which point i15 moves will clash with Mist B, Mist's fastest move. He can also duck though so be carefully being predictable with High's specially with your back to edge (Mitsu's wiff punish from MIST is gnarly).
If instead of going for RLC[A] he goes RLC B (-18 on Block) you can still punish with <i15 moves.
His safest option would be to go for another RLC [K] (Mitsu's do this all the time) which If you block it would leave him at -5 while on RLC. DO NOT ATTACK. RLC works wonders at a disadvantage, RLC [A] at -5 will beat out i13 moves and RLC A+B+K will aGI any MID from i9-i18.
So pretty much his only risk after RLC K is RLC B. Add in the RLC K, RLC B Mix-up and your at risk for RLC B, 1A + oki.
I hope this helps, If any more experienced player wants to correct me please go right ahead :)
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
This is not quite true - after Relic [K] on block, Relic [A] trades with i16 moves and loses to anything quicker. Also because Relic [K] pushes you back to Relic A tip range, some moves can cause RLC A to whiff on hit or block.
You can attack after blocked RLC [K] but you need to choose your attack carefully because of Mitsu's relic options (interrupt A, step B, GI A+B+K, jump 7_8_9, duck 2).
Senzait
Steamed Buns!!
I was talking about after RLC [K] on hit followed by another RLC [K] on block followed by RLC[A]. I though I had made that clear, sorry ^_^. Good call on the push-back though, I had forgotten about it.
Age_of_Truth
[12] Conqueror
Ok though I don't see how that means he can interrupt i13. I made a mistake though, after blocked RLC [K], [A] trades with i15 moves.
Senzait
Steamed Buns!!
I might be wrong.... now im second guessing myself... Please correct me if my reasoning isn't sound. RLC[K] is +3 on hit. RLC[K] on block is -8. RLC[A] is i7. +3-8 leaves you at -5 an i7 move will therefore come out as i12 hence interrupting i13 moves.
Ya I realize you'll probably lose frames in between but I'm pretty sure it works out. Ill test it out early tomorrow though just to make sure.
Ya I realize you'll probably lose frames in between but I'm pretty sure it works out. Ill test it out early tomorrow though just to make sure.
Mavericks:
Stepping MST left causes ALL his options to whiff, even MST A - it's easy to shut down.
Senzait:
Punishment wise my answers to RLC currently are:
RLC A/(A): Duck 2nd hit 1B whiff punish
RLC B: 3(B) Tip range
RLC B: 3(B) SCH kB close range
RLC K: FC 2K
I don't mean I can't handle the stance, just that RLC K on hit fucks with my head:
What I should've asked is: If RLC (K) hits,
1: Will RLC A catch backstep G or will the first hit whiff?
2: Is RLC weak to any step?
3: I noticed throws were effective in this situation as they often scored as backgrabs, what is causing this and what would you suggest as an alternative?
I remember seeing Belial hit Malek with 4 consectuive RLC Ks then RLC B when he finally ducked so I realise it's a difficult situation to deal with, but on hit, is there any one thing you, as a Mitsu player don't like to see the enemy do?
Stepping MST left causes ALL his options to whiff, even MST A - it's easy to shut down.
Senzait:
Punishment wise my answers to RLC currently are:
RLC A/(A): Duck 2nd hit 1B whiff punish
RLC B: 3(B) Tip range
RLC B: 3(B) SCH kB close range
RLC K: FC 2K
I don't mean I can't handle the stance, just that RLC K on hit fucks with my head:
What I should've asked is: If RLC (K) hits,
1: Will RLC A catch backstep G or will the first hit whiff?
2: Is RLC weak to any step?
3: I noticed throws were effective in this situation as they often scored as backgrabs, what is causing this and what would you suggest as an alternative?
I remember seeing Belial hit Malek with 4 consectuive RLC Ks then RLC B when he finally ducked so I realise it's a difficult situation to deal with, but on hit, is there any one thing you, as a Mitsu player don't like to see the enemy do?
- Moderator
- #312
Ring
Lay still now
RLC A at close range can't be stepped. On hit RLC (K) pushes you away so you can easily backstep RLC A, and even B. He can however do RLC [K] > dash and again RLC K/A/ whatever.
Senzait
Steamed Buns!!
Ring just beat me to answering lol. Also RLC is weaker to Mitsu's right since it will cause RLC B to wiff depending on how large the step is.
Also stepping left (mitsu's right) will cause a back grab because of his general positioning.
Also stepping left (mitsu's right) will cause a back grab because of his general positioning.
- Moderator
- #314
Ring
Lay still now
Yeah, because of RLC dash it's impossible to always backstep and whiff punish his attacks. I remember when two years ago I tested the options vs RLC and I found that X is the only character (or one of the few, not sure) who can beat all RLC options (except ducking) after RLC [K] on block with 4K. The fastest RLC A will trade with 4K but Xian will take only 5dmg from this. 4K also punishes normal RLC K. I think her 6K works in a similar way here. I don't know if there are any other characters with i15 (or faster) horizontal high attack available from FC.
- Moderator
- #315
Belial
King of Hundred Swords
ouch. so much for the RLC discussion
after RLC K on block -
red aGI i13 moves
RLC A trade with i15 moves
RLC B evasion is DRASTICALLY different depending on far/close block. see my mitsu vs mitsu skill project http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUeOHbwOYp4 for insights.
on RLC K hit small dash RLC A beats everything the same way it does if done right away but also is completely not possible to step/evade.
RLC B trades with i17 moves.
after blocking RLC A anything under i18 frames will punish and will not be interruptible by MST. However, should you chose to RLC A~66 dash, you will duck high moves over 16 frames and, depending on the range of block , even i15 moves (it is possible to duck under yoshi 6K2K punishment for example)
Good ways to handle RLC with siegfried is 3B and grabs.
Why is 3B good against RLC
1) CH possiblity on dashing opponent - high damage
2) Ducks under RLC A+B lvl 1 and beats lvl 2 if timed well
3) Punishes RLC A and RLC B
4) no brainer (see 2,3) you dont have to mix it up, really, just chose to do it right away, delay slightly (if you fear aGI) or just bait a punishment. added bonus on CH (should they, say, RLC A~MST B on guard)
2) RLC is weak to your left step(p1 up), MST is weak to right step (p1 down)
3) If Mitsu uses RLC aGI (A+B+K) throws end up as BT throws, should they use RLC B - left sidethrow usually occurs, if throws out of RLC im not sure 100% it seems different everytime.
Throws are decent option.
The worst strategy to deal with is when your opponent is very agressive against stance and is succesful with it. People who chose passive attitude can be really toyed around with UB's, aGI's , RLC2(ducks) etc, but once your opponent nails it to "use RLC A or take a hit", it really makes me uneasy, I never know if he's going to stop me, so initially it increases my risks since I have to risk RLC A and even if I guess correctly by not using RLC A then I have to risk RLC B(b/c I need to mix up my RLC K sometimes). Of course RLC still has all the options needed to turn the tables in mitsu favor. Its a deadly stance and my only suggestion is to duck as little as possible and be agressive against it.
after RLC K on block -
red aGI i13 moves
RLC A trade with i15 moves
RLC B evasion is DRASTICALLY different depending on far/close block. see my mitsu vs mitsu skill project http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cUeOHbwOYp4 for insights.
on RLC K hit small dash RLC A beats everything the same way it does if done right away but also is completely not possible to step/evade.
RLC B trades with i17 moves.
after blocking RLC A anything under i18 frames will punish and will not be interruptible by MST. However, should you chose to RLC A~66 dash, you will duck high moves over 16 frames and, depending on the range of block , even i15 moves (it is possible to duck under yoshi 6K2K punishment for example)
Good ways to handle RLC with siegfried is 3B and grabs.
Why is 3B good against RLC
1) CH possiblity on dashing opponent - high damage
2) Ducks under RLC A+B lvl 1 and beats lvl 2 if timed well
3) Punishes RLC A and RLC B
4) no brainer (see 2,3) you dont have to mix it up, really, just chose to do it right away, delay slightly (if you fear aGI) or just bait a punishment. added bonus on CH (should they, say, RLC A~MST B on guard)
1) sometimes, if your input is precise, however as descibed above small dash RLC A is superior in every respect.
2) RLC is weak to your left step(p1 up), MST is weak to right step (p1 down)
3) If Mitsu uses RLC aGI (A+B+K) throws end up as BT throws, should they use RLC B - left sidethrow usually occurs, if throws out of RLC im not sure 100% it seems different everytime.
Throws are decent option.
The worst strategy to deal with is when your opponent is very agressive against stance and is succesful with it. People who chose passive attitude can be really toyed around with UB's, aGI's , RLC2(ducks) etc, but once your opponent nails it to "use RLC A or take a hit", it really makes me uneasy, I never know if he's going to stop me, so initially it increases my risks since I have to risk RLC A and even if I guess correctly by not using RLC A then I have to risk RLC B(b/c I need to mix up my RLC K sometimes). Of course RLC still has all the options needed to turn the tables in mitsu favor. Its a deadly stance and my only suggestion is to duck as little as possible and be agressive against it.
- Moderator
- #316
Ring
Lay still now
This is interesting. So does i12 umbrella beat all his options including aGI after blocking RLC K?
Mavericks42O
[09] Warrior
Mitsu stances are 2 of the most well rounded in the game. Its a game of Rock, Paper, Scissor with them and usually its to Mitsu advantage as they deal massive damage when you guess wrong and the speed at which they can deliver it. Watch some of Belial and Knightspirit video against legit competition and see that even knowing all the frames and what to expect they still get hit by these moves.
A good example of this is Belial vs Malek here in this video. Watch the second round how Malek is forced to eat Relic K due to the sheer speed of Relic A.
A good example of this is Belial vs Malek here in this video. Watch the second round how Malek is forced to eat Relic K due to the sheer speed of Relic A.
Dani_Hungerford
[09] Warrior
Mitsurugi is hard to fight.
- Moderator
- #319
Belial
King of Hundred Swords
Yes
I'd love to see KS vids against legit competition though. This same guy called me a scrub once.
Malek is a good example of someone trying to deal with stance by merely defending/backdashing. And even despite Ivy is really a chore with size of her backdash (single backdash in CL takes her away from even RLC 66, K (dash in K) so you need to dash twice!) he still cannot stop stance by passively baiting.
I have a playlist composed against best/good players of the world http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=35014C82F2E5D27C (And in case you're wondering who's Andy - its one of the best Italian player (team Italy was second in Team World Cup in 2010), there is that same vid vs Malek but in HD quality.
Siegfried has 6A actually =P