More broken-More fun: aPat step Cancel

docvizzo

docvizzo

[14] Master
So, as you all know in SC5 you have to COMMIT to step. If you step and your opponent does an Anti Step, you eat it. YOU EAT IT.

And as you (i hope) all know, aPAT is pretty damn imba. He is a pretty retarded character.

So what i want you guys to test if following setup:

Go to trainings mode and choose Omega as an opponent. She is one of the chars one might be worried about, since pretty damn strong herself. Omegas main pressure tools from mid-max. range are 66B, then either DNS B or NS A. So either you block all day her DNS B and try to punish with Umbrella, or sometimes you decide to step and hope he doesnt do NS A, since it rapes step.

So record Omega do 66B on Block, then NS A. Now lets check our options here:

  • Just block NS A and try to punish, same goes for DNS B. But again both are very hard to punish, especially DNS B.
  • Now lets try quickstep, you will see you WILL get hit. You cannot block it.
  • Now lets try single step Guard, same result, you eat NS A.
  • Now lets try eiter quistep or single step and immediately try to crouch, since NS A is high. again this wont work.
BUT, what works with aPAT is single Step into 214 Cancel. So you can Step and then do a 214 TC Move DURING step, which beats NS A since its high, ans also it beats DNS B, and it also beats another 66B.
So same setup, record 66B on Block, then NS A. Now STEP (Single Input and immediately do 2143A+B....aPAT will step and cancel the step to do the Move, which will TC under NS A and punish NS A, DNS B and 66B.
It is hard, im telling you. Check your own inputs to see if you really stepped first! and always step to Omegas right!
Also when Omega does 66B, DNS B as a combo, roll her next 66B to her right, then you can CE punish her!
Now go test and find other situations where this beats several options!

This is quite a broken mechanic in SC5, dont know if other chars have this ability too.


gl hf, doc.
 
Doc there are few more options.

- backdash both variations with a single backdash and punish her, since backdashes in the game are better
- SS A_B_K~G and evade DNS B or block DN A, since you cannot cancel SS to block, but as in previous games, you can cancel SS to attack and attack to block.
- try to JG both variations, or even GI it
- if you play some character that don't have 214 stances and have fast SS, like Ivy, then you can 214 with proper timing and do micro step to evade DNS B or block DN A, since you can cancel 2 to 1_3 much faster then with block.
- you can interrupt it
-probably some more

but it's a nice technology
and not that hard
 
I thought this was the whole point of having command tech crouches?

Step, 2361A is one of my most common ways to escape pressure.
 
Everyone can cancel NORMAL step into attacks or commands.

It's quick step that you can't cancel.
 
page said:
Everyone can cancel NORMAL step into attacks or commands.

It's quick step that you can't cancel.
Click to expand...

I can cancel quickstep with K:G...dont know what you mean. As Cheese said you can cancel quickstep into an attack, then cancel the attack. So doing 22BG cancels the quickstep animation, shortening the step a lot. I can cancel Quickstep so that the quickstep animation is visible only for a fraction of time.

Maybe somebody needs to recheck, but judging by the time the "swoosh" animation is visible, im pretty sure you can cancel it.

Then again whats this TC Cancel? I havent checked too much stufff besides my chars...
 
I thought this was known already (it's also in the strategy guide, though not mentioned specifically; you can also instantly GI while stepping...or just about anything that doesn't include a guard command). I've been doing this since SC4 (I do it a lot with delayed wrB because it's one of the few safe, halfway decent TCs Sets/aPat has).

It's decent, but not broken. You're covering two options but any mid that tracks to the side you're stepping will still hit you (part of the reason I also used wrB was because it had some wonky frames where it'd dodge a bunch of stuff). It's broken against someone like Sieg, though, where stepping to the left and throwing out an umbrella will beat any option he does after a blocked 3b at any range.

Since we're on the topic, I don't believe it's in SC5, but, if you cancelled a step with Setsuka instantly (with 214), she wouldn't do the stance at all until you you finished the step but would be considered TC if you didn't press anything while she was stepping (as if in 214). The gold to all of this was that, if you pressed G before she ended her step, she would guard instead of going into 214.

Guess you all were too busy abusing step g to notice though.
 
LostProvidence said:
It's broken against someone like Sieg, though, where stepping to the left and throwing out an umbrella will beat any option he does after a blocked 3b at any range.
Click to expand...
You don't actually need to step at all to kill Sieg this way. 214 itself causes SCH K to whiff post 3B so 214<Umbrella beats everything as well and is easier to execute.

And to think of all the bitching all the people did on the boards about his 3B, lol.
 
He's probably the only character with an "universal" answer to all Sieg's options. Did I mention that JF Umbrella is retarded?:P
 
I love it. Its like the mountain of SCIV Ivy BS but scarier. ^^
I'm really liking the new backdash though - even vs Alpha in mirrors, try this out:
2B+K spaced at mid range on block ~ backstep. If Alpha tries umbrella it whiffs and is 1B:B punished. But it gets better, 2B+K~backstep, 1B:B - if he quicksteps into 33B it will CH him, if he tries a 2363B it whiffs and is punished. This is against a character these sort of mixups are generally redundant on and while it is still flawed, imagine what you could do to a weaker toolset just with this one setup such as Maxi or Leixia. And bear in mind backstep is a passive option, completely safe and leads into half bar mixups.
Cervy 33B? Its got nothing on it! ^_^
 
Synraii said:
You don't actually need to step at all to kill Sieg this way. 214 itself causes SCH K to whiff post 3B so 214<Umbrella beats everything as well and is easier to execute.

And to think of all the bitching all the people did on the boards about his 3B, lol.
Click to expand...

No, at close range, the knee will win. Still, if they don't BE it and do it both kicks, you'll be left crouching (the second hit will whiff) and you can punish with FC3a+b. Though it's like that for anyone
 
Are you guys sure Sieg can not Stance Roulette out of it when you step first and then do Umbrella. His stance roulette in fact makes a lot of shit whiff of Alpha...i havent checked Sieg yet, i played him yesterday and out of reflex i just Umbrella after 3B...but this definetely does not work at all. the knee wins on close range for sure and it hurts a lot with BE....

I dont think Alpha has one universal option. 2143A+B i think wins against the knee, but loses to stance roulette and B...etc etc...always a counter. If you find one working solution tell me please...on close range i just gamble and quickstep into agB...hurts quite a lot when Sieg does the Knee.
 
Let me clarify what I posted:
doing 214 into delayed umbrella (The latest you can do it in the 214 window) will duck SCH A, beat any stance transition/g cancel, interrupt B and cause K to whiff midscreen. the pushback actually helps here.

I call this technique the Syn twister. =P
 
Synraii said:
Let me clarify what I posted:
doing 214 into delayed umbrella (The latest you can do it in the 214 window) will duck SCH A, beat any stance transition/g cancel, interrupt B and cause K to whiff midscreen. the pushback actually helps here.
Click to expand...

You are right, im used to buffer Umbrella from SC4...a bit delayed and it beats anything. Good shit!
 
And because of the delay, you have more time to prep umbrella and there is no chance of missing the input whatsoever.
 
yes, it's a good news, wouldn't be suprised that after castrating movement system this would be also out of the game

well there is stilla hope in 1.03, for static calibur 5
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back