Natsu makes me sad

[FluffyQuack]

Maybe I'm just unlucky with the connections I'm getting, but I really can't react fast enough to her bomb move (4A+B?). The only times I've been able to block them is when I predict the pattern of a player. But it's pretty rare I fight against the same people long enough for that to be possible (I mostly play in ranked).

Omg... ROFL. I see the old Amy haters now look for a new character to cry and complain about?

also... you guys play in japanese??? LOL I mean all i hear in japanese is girls with chipmunk voice saying: bla bla something something japanese something something bla bla. so i dont know why anyone that doesnt speak japanese wants to play it like that.

...and yes Natsu is waaaaay cooler then Taki.

I'll take that over hearing people yell justice every other second. The primary reason I play in Japanese is to avoid the English voice overs because they're just plain bad to listen to.

 

[Tha_Shogun]

Maxi completely shuts down her frontal assault with one move. Natsu players get so mad when they run into the wall of 6A+B lol.

Lmao this comment made me laugh so hard. 6 A+B is soooooo good with Maxi and I can imagine it destroying Natsu's that rely on the type of setups I see them trying online.

I just A:6 all their options lol. I made one Natsu player so mad with A:6 punishes that they started spamming them back at me trying to get it to work....and I ate everyone of them while laughing my ass off.

 

[Reave]

Lmao this comment made me laugh so hard. 6 A+B is soooooo good with Maxi and I can imagine it destroying Natsu's that rely on the type of setups I see them trying online.

I just A:6 all their options lol. I made one Natsu player so mad with A:6 punishes that they started spamming them back at me trying to get it to work....and I ate everyone of them while laughing my ass off.

Yes lol and it never helps them that we main her and understand her BS. The way people spout off about Natsu being OP is hilarious to me. The most she can do to me is AAB and that's nothing to fear IMO.

 

[UnseenWombat]

I'll take that over hearing people yell justice every other second. The primary reason I play in Japanese is to avoid the English voice overs because they're just plain bad to listen to.

Yes, I hate listening to our mallrat ninja in English. I assume she's equally corny and annoying in Japanese, but if I can't understand her, it's not as bad.

 

[Tha_Shogun]

Yes, I hate listening to our mallrat ninja in English. I assume she's equally corny and annoying in Japanese, but if I can't understand her, it's not as bad.

Her English voice is the main reason why I play in Japanese voice on this Soul Calibur. Natsu is annoying as hell, and the only way I can tolerate her is by not knowing what she's saying and not read the sub titles.

 

[frost]

She actually does sound almost as annoying in Japanese. Like a condescending delinquent teeny bopper. I think the localization team actually did a good job with the English version in that respect... Coz yknow... I think she's supposed to sound annoying. I prefer her Japanese version, though.

Still, I wish there's an option to change individual characters' voice acting (a la SF4). There are some characters I would rather prefer to listen to in English. Darth Vader from SC4 was a big one back in the day... and now it's Ezio.

Forgive me for going offtopic here.

 

[Woffit66]

Ugh. Natsu annoys me no end. Whenever I play online all I ever see is Natsu, Natsu, Natsu.

She's the absolute epitome of the fighting type I hate-the "grounding" type, that keeps on knocking you to the floor and you can never get an attack in with. Just whack, whack, whack, groundbomb, air grapple...

It's even worse for me as someone who mains Nightmare. He's quite a slow character, and a single missed attack just lets her launch you, knock you to the ground and keep on spamming attack after attack, and before you know it it's KO or Ring Out. To make natters worse, because he's so slow you have to keep blocking all the time, and the moment you drop your guard she hammers you to death. Or she just bombs you and breaks your guard.

I wish she had a weaker guard to compensate. For some reason, Natsu seems to be better at blocking attacks than most other characters, which is odd considering she's using her bare fists. Maybe it's because she can attack so quickly after blocking. It doesn't help that Nightmare's easiest Unblockable is a low stomp with very short range. If it were a long horizontal sweep he would stand a greater chance, but alas.

Voldo is pretty good against her though. Maybe it's because his attack patterns are so hard to predict. I always find I do better against her with Voldo.

 

[Slade]

snip

Seeing how you mentioned groundbomb into air grapple like it's something that happens pretty often, there are quite a few ways of getting out of the various bomb traps she has. After some knockdowns (e.g. 66B, A+G_B+G), you can easily jump over and hit her for doing a bomb. Unlike many unblockable attacks, her 2A+B cannot be cancelled, so you're guaranteed an 8B if she does it in a situation where you can jump (i.e. when you've been knocked down but have low enough recovery that you can jump it on wakeup). The rest of the time, you can just lie on the ground and eat the UB bomb for extremely minimal damage (around 5-10 a pop) and the bomb will push you far enough away on the ground that you can stand back up and make her work to get in again.

Nightmare does struggle a lot against a good Natsu, though. She's capable of punishing his faster pokes (3K and 66K are both A:6 punishable, 1K is WR K punishable). However Nightmare does have his ways of getting free damage against her. I think 6A has enough range to punish her 66B, and I know 6K has enough to punish AAB. He can also duck in anticipation of 66K to get a WR (B) → NSS b:A punish, and doing so will make her pay for using one of her most effective moves for stopping Nightmare from moving around.

If you want to see how this matchup is NOT meant to be played, watch any of the videos of FIME losing to kAb so you can see what not to do.
For seeing how it is meant to be played, watch the Final Round GFs between Thermidor and Hawkeye.

 

[Woffit66]

Thanks! Unfortunately a lot of the time I can't jump over the bomb because I've been knocked down and just the moment before I hit the floor she does the bomb. Still, I will definitely keep that in mind. Jump is guard+up on the joystick/d-pad, right?

I have found Raphael is quite effective against the Ginger Menace. He has sufficient range to avoid her main attacks and a good attack rate/speed to quickly respond to errant jabs.

Also, how good is Tira against Natsu? She's my other main and I wonder if she'd be effective against her. Her unpredictability and good speed+range make me think she could work well, but I have had issues with being interrupted and royally screwed over.

(Do forgive any misuse of terminology. I'm a total newbie who can't even string togther a Critical Edge yet! Still, I'm willing to learn)

 

[Xyerith]

Thanks! Unfortunately a lot of the time I can't jump over the bomb because I've been knocked down and just the moment before I hit the floor she does the bomb. Still, I will definitely keep that in mind. Jump is guard+up on the joystick/d-pad, right?

I have found Raphael is quite effective against the Ginger Menace. He has sufficient range to avoid her main attacks and a good attack rate/speed to quickly respond to errant jabs.

Also, how good is Tira against Natsu? She's my other main and I wonder if she'd be effective against her. Her unpredictability and good speed+range make me think she could work well, but I have had issues with being interrupted and royally screwed over.

(Do forgive any misuse of terminology. I'm a total newbie who can't even string togther a Critical Edge yet! Still, I'm willing to learn)

It seems like where ever i go Slade you happen to be there haha. Any how I am largely under practiced against Natsu but I know Tira's pubishment for her well. Tira can 4K punish 22B, A+B and few other key moves I know I am forgetting. 66B is 3K punishable, but be careful of her POing out of it, if you anticipate this you get a free launcher. Try learning how to jump B her UB bomb, in GS you can get 72 dmg and in JS 34. AAB and 8A+B can only be punished with meter CE for AAB and 236K BE for 8A+B. 66K is BB punishable in jolly and 3AA or 4K in Gloomy. Her bombs into PO can have all but K interrupted with WR B, and if you predict the K you can block it and get 66AA in jolly and and 3B in gloomy. WRAAA must be 3B punished everytime. One more thing, dont CE punish 66B ever, if you guess wrong and she happens to possesion the first two hits of CE will hit then the third will whiff and she can either block it and get decent amount of DMG or worse side step it and punish with whatever the hell she feels like

 

[Xyerith]

Seeing how you mentioned groundbomb into air grapple like it's something that happens pretty often, there are quite a few ways of getting out of the various bomb traps she has. After some knockdowns (e.g. 66B, A+G_B+G), you can easily jump over and hit her for doing a bomb. Unlike many unblockable attacks, her 2A+B cannot be cancelled, so you're guaranteed an 8B if she does it in a situation where you can jump (i.e. when you've been knocked down but have low enough recovery that you can jump it on wakeup). The rest of the time, you can just lie on the ground and eat the UB bomb for extremely minimal damage (around 5-10 a pop) and the bomb will push you far enough away on the ground that you can stand back up and make her work to get in again.

Nightmare does struggle a lot against a good Natsu, though. She's capable of punishing his faster pokes (3K and 66K are both A:6 punishable, 1K is WR K punishable). However Nightmare does have his ways of getting free damage against her. I think 6A has enough range to punish her 66B, and I know 6K has enough to punish AAB. He can also duck in anticipation of 66K to get a WR (B) → NSS b:A punish, and doing so will make her pay for using one of her most effective moves for stopping Nightmare from moving around.

If you want to see how this matchup is NOT meant to be played, watch any of the videos of FIME losing to kAb so you can see what not to do.
For seeing how it is meant to be played, watch the Final Round GFs between Thermidor and Hawkeye.

44K is how you beat Natsu?

 

[FleshMasher]

Still, I will definitely keep that in mind. Jump is guard+up on the joystick/d-pad, right?

Neutral Jump is shit (up + G)
Attack jump is almost always faster in the air/out of 2A+B's way.
Which one is best depends on character (for example with Natsu herself, jump A/B have slightly earlier jump than jump K, even that is faster than neutral jump though.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

*Snip*

As odd as it may be, I actually think that the Nightmare/Natsu MU might be an even 5:5. Although Natsu dominates Nightmare in close range combat, NM can zone Natsu very well thanks to his great long range attacks and exceptional movement. How is Natsu knocking you down? Is she hitting you with A+B, 66AB or 66B? Try your best to keep Natsu at NM's tip range of his pokes like agA, 6A, 22A, or BB (or a single B). If Natsu gets in close, only use K attacks, i.e. 1K, 3K, K, or 6K. Feel free to spam 3A mixups, when Natsu is in your face to discourage her great TC attacks. Try to harness the greatness of 236B for zoning, oki and guard pressure.

If Natsu does unfortunately knock you down, never ukemi or tech. You're just asking to be launched by a bomb. If you block the 4A+B Purple bomb, you can punish it with NM's great WR punisher: WR B (+NSS bA or 236K BE followup). Also punish 1A's with WR B, because Natsu's 1A is annoying as shit. Remember, block the purple bomb, jump the UB bomb. I usually use 8B or 8K. Both attacks TJ quickly and hit Mid.

When you knock Natsu down on her sorry ass, use 66B, 236B, 1[A] for guard pressure or 1K for poke damage. If Natsu spams 66K on you, remember that she is always at disadvantage for using this move. -16 on block & -4 on hit. Make sure to shift momentum right after she uses the move. After a 66K on hit, all Natsu will do afterwards to try and maintain pressure is AAB, 2A or 3KK. Make her respect her frames! Don't forget to use agA to harass Natsu's guard gauge. Natsu's guard damage is shit so that's an advantage you have.

Voldo is pretty good against Natsu because she lacks good ground hitting Mids like NM has. Voldo's strengths in this MU seem to revolve around his fast poking speed, outstanding mixups and his evasive stances. Natsu's a predominantly close-range fighter so Voldo can screw her up a bit by forcing her to play a bit of a zoning game. However take heed with Voldo, TBH, majority of your wins are going to come from gimmicking your opponent to death. Be careful with Natsu's that know what they're doing.

Tira is also good against Natsu. Her pokes are amazing and she can outrange Natsu's pokes. Be weary of Natsu's A+B, 66B or 6A+B4 though since she'll try to sneak these moves in to thwart your offense. Once Tira is in GS, she becomes a weapon of mass destruction if she has meter. Liberally throw out GS 66B BE and feel free to regularly use GS 3AA BE and 236K BE to keep the opponent off balance. And when in doubt, GS 3B. That shit TC'es and leads to Tira's serious damage.

If you find Natsu's oki game to be annoying, then you will find Yoshimitsu infuriating. If he knocks you down, you're fucked if you guess wrong. With Natsu you don't have to guess, just stay down.

 

[FleshMasher]

If you block the 4A+B Purple bomb, you can punish it with NM's great WR punisher: WR B (+NSS bA or 236K BE followup).

Natsu 4A+B can be made safe with the Kuzukiri cancel.
4A+B~ PO~ Teleport~ PO K would also defeat WR B.

Edit:
Huh? Even plain 4A+B is safe to Nightmare WS B.

 

[kAb]

There's a lot I don't agree with in that post. There is no way the match with nm is even.

 

[FleshMasher]

An advice i'd have for a Nightmare would be A+B against her many strings.
A+B works against AAB and so on and even 22_88B and A:6.
Not against 66B, A+B or bombs though.
What hurts Nightmare the most in this match up IMO are his slow punishers that make many of Natsu's attacks quite spammable.
His best chance is clever use of backstep, because he can make Natsu whiff a lot, or force her to overuse 66K.
If Natsu (or anyone) whiffs against Nightmare she's in trouble.

 

[Force_of_Nature]

Natsu 4A+B can be made safe with the Kuzukiri cancel.
4A+B~ PO~ Teleport~ PO K would also defeat WR B.

Edit:
Huh? Even plain 4A+B is safe to Nightmare WS B.

Ah yes, that's true, I usually use WR B if the opponent does 4A+B6 unless I see that they like to do the Weasel Run PO BE. I'm surprised that Natsu's bombs are technically safe to i16 punishers considering how much damage she can get from them if they launch.

An advice i'd have for a Nightmare would be A+B against her many strings.
A+B works against AAB and so on and even 22_88B and A:6.
Not against 66B, A+B or bombs though.
What hurts Nightmare the most in this match up IMO are his slow punishers that make many of Natsu's attacks quite spammable.
His best chance is clever use of backstep, because he can make Natsu whiff a lot, or force her to overuse 66K.
If Natsu (or anyone) whiffs against Nightmare she's in trouble.

A+B is great against AAB spammers but I generally wouldn't throw out this move against Natsu because her 66B shuts it down (it is somewhat handy against Violas though). If the Nightmare player backsteps a lot, generally the only move that seems to reach him is 66K. Everything else tends to whiff including A+B. However, NM can't punish 66K hard unless he crouches for a WR B~ launch. I also agree that whiffing in front of NM is the worst thing you can do against him. That's usually how he hurts you the most if he's not harassing you guard gauge at range.

I'll admit that the MU likely is in Natsu's favour but I doubt that it's worse than 4:6 for Nightmare. I've seen some Nightmares do great against Natsus.

 

[Woffit66]

With regards to custom characters using Nightmare's style, would shorter or taller characters be better against ol' Ginger? I know that height has some effect on gameplay (taller=longer range, shorter=more power).

 

[FleshMasher]

I'd always go with vanilla/standard Nightmare, first because of the competitive factor (CAS=Banned), second because i'd suppose that CAS are inferior to Nightmare when it comes to Throw range.

 

[Woffit66]

I'd always go with vanilla/standard Nightmare, first because of the competitive factor (CAS=Banned), second because i'd suppose that CAS are inferior to Nightmare when it comes to Throw range.

Why are CAS banned in tournaments? (Just interested)