Natsu Matchup

AumaanRa

[08] Mercenary
I've been having a bit of trouble with this match up partially due to being unfamiliar with some of her move properties and partially due to her incredibly fast movement. Once she is in on me I have a very hard time getting back out to a decent range to try to space/punish/rush her down.

Most of the matches i've found GS B, and properly timed WR A have been my only tools in close but it's been a bit rough with her speed and size tapping NM on just about everything. 3AA is useful as always but only up to a point.

Good spots to punish/useful tips?
 

hteng

[09] Warrior
learn to jump her UB bombs, that's her most damaging starter i think. A+B can get her off your face.
 

AumaanRa

[08] Mercenary
*headdesk* I always forget how useful A+B is now. Jumping is still incredibly foreign to me, but i'll have to practice dodging those.
 

Lemonforce

[09] Warrior
yea the only advice i can really give has pretty much already been stated use A+B to relieve pressure u may also want to throw in more aga's than normal. also watch for the bomb tech traps remember to just lay on the ground and get hit for a sliver of damage than to get launched and combo'd. if your standing u can low block her normal bombs and depending on the situation u might be able to interrupt her UB bomb during wind up with 6A, 6K, and 4KK
 

hteng

[09] Warrior
fought a really good natsu today, was totally destroyed, she's so damn good at everything, i can't step her, not even A+B helps
 

KingAce

HERMITISM
Uh huh now you get it.

Taki sucked in SC4 so I am certain most NM players didn't know how bad that match up was for him. But if you fought a good taki player which was rare, you have plenty to fear from Natsu.

A+B is good, but if she blocks it you're going to regret it.

The way I did it in SC4 was backdashing as much as possible. 66K to counter her AA, because 1K doesn't TC.
Unfortunately this a highly advanced matchup. There certain explanations that are useless to give with newbies, because you need experience to understand.

Zoning again is key. If you keep her away from point blank range, it's a manageable fight. But that means you have to work on your movement, while throwing out stuff like AGA or 3A to keep them honest. NM's CE fear might make a good natsu player cautious...but as you all know it isn't a full proof method. NM doesn't have a fast unpinishable mid aside from 3K, 2B and BB...you have to utilize these as well. Unsafe stuff like 3B, you need to refrain from unless you're certain...this is a fight were you're constantly fighting from behind...free damage is a no no.

That's the general idea, I have to gain more experience to extensively discuss this.
 

AumaanRa

[08] Mercenary
Zoning again is key. If you keep her away from point blank range, it's a manageable fight. But that means you have to work on your movement, while throwing out stuff like AGA or 3A to keep them honest. NM's CE fear might make a good natsu player cautious...but as you all know it isn't a full proof method. NM doesn't have a fast unpinishable mid aside from 3K, 2B and BB...you have to utilize these as well. Unsafe stuff like 3B, you need to refrain from unless you're certain...this is a fight were you're constantly fighting from behind...free damage is a no no.
This seems to be working far better for me after a bit more play testing. Natsu also seems to be really easy to ring out for some reason with 3AA and 3B bA, maybe its just me but she seems to fly quite far under proper conditions.
 

SWBeta

[08] Mercenary
Lie down and take the hit, or stand straight up (don't tech/ukemi in any direction), and jump over the explosion. If it's the faster, blockable one, stand straight up and block low, or take the hit if you're afraid of messing up. Against Natsu, you're going to have to take a lot of extra hits on the ground if you want to survive. The Natsu match-up is actually really simple once you know her juice. Step or Quick Step, then immediately crouch block whenever she goes into PO. Stepping avoids PO B and Hover B, and the following crouch block avoids Hover A. Eat the PO B+K (the low) and PO A. They don't hurt. After any knockdown where she is a character space away from you, never tech roll/ukemi. Either stay down and take the bomb hit (If it's the quick bomb), or stand straight up and block low. If it's the quick bomb, you'll block it. If it's the unblockable bomb, you still have enough time to jump it. Just don't mentally commit to holding 2 and G. Always be ready to shift from 2 to 8 or 7 (or 9B_K, if you're bold) as soon as you see the flames indicating an unblockable. At mid and long range, use lots of a:g:A, BB, and 3AA. Even if she ducks the a:g:A at long range, she can't do anything about it. She will default to A+B or 66B or 66B(BE) at mid range. a:g:A will beat A+B in speed, but 66B will beat a:g:A due to tech crouch. Block if you expect it. 66B(BE) isn't scary as people think. The 2nd hit is a high. Block the first hit, duck the 2nd, take your WR [B] > NSS b:A punish and keep it moving. Try to guard break her by using a lot of BBs at mid range. It's safe, and if you notice her trying to retaliate after your BBs, use A+B after a blocked BB to auto-GI and shut that shit down. Don't pursue after A+B knockdown. Move back and play the zoning game. Watch the rage ensue.

Natsu vs NM is actually pretty good for Nightmare, imo. Just gotta know when to take the free bomb on the ground and when not to.
As an addendum to my Nightmare vs Natsu match-up post above, scratch a:g:A at mid range. Wind Roll beats it for free. You don't want to eat a WR BBB. You can throw some a:g:As to bait it, however, and 3AA, 3[B], 33B (66~3B input) or BB if you think you've got a good read on WR coming. I would stick with BB and 3AA, as Natsu can't punish those.
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
I found something good. It appears that Nightmare's 66K is 100% guaranteed from a blocked 6A+B/6A+B4 as it cannot be blocked and stuffs all PO options.
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
Actually, if you 66K6 to go into GS you are probably far enough away to avoid BT PO K after PO BE.
yeah I tried it out. if you do normal 66K you get BT PO Ked but if you do 66K6 you both miss. no reason to use normal 66K here anyway I suppose
 

banannigans

[09] Warrior
I may have missed something, but from the testing I've done so far every move transition into NSS from block seems to loses to Natsu's 66B. Every option gets beaten out of every transition except 44(B) NSS A+B which trades with 66B. It still seems like a good trade for Natsu as NM ends up taking like twice the damage that Natsu does.

Can anybody else confirm this?
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
I may have missed something, but from the testing I've done so far every move transition into NSS from block seems to loses to Natsu's 66B. Every option gets beaten out of every transition except 44(B) NSS A+B which trades with 66B. It still seems like a good trade for Natsu as NM ends up taking like twice the damage that Natsu does.

Can anybody else confirm this?
I've turned the game off for tonight but try NSS b:A and GS A before you're sure something is guaranteed. NSS b:A has a sidestep so it can avoid some B moves and GS A can GI B moves as long as they aren't too fast. Depends on what transition it is though. Of course just cause NM may have an option to beat it doesn't necessarily make Natsu 66B a bad option. NSS bA and GS A are both unsafe high moves afterall....
 

hteng

[09] Warrior
man i'm hating on this matchup, Natsu's 4A+B into PO is so damn annoying, i can't for the life of me shut this down, and PO B guard break into mixups. her 66A BE 2nd hit can be ducked but i find it hard to duck on reaction, it's so damn fast.

and those techtraps, if there's one thing i learn its never tech against Natsu.
 

IkI

[08] Mercenary
I was in training mode recently and tried some stuff.
I was hoping NSS avoid her 2A+B or 4A+B but no, too bad :/
66B+K beat 2A+B (didn't test 4A+B) but you have to have godlike reaction (66A+B doesn't work)

I always lost against her 4A+B on guard into PO A. I tried WS B, WS K, NSS, grab. She hits me every time. Any tips ?
 

hteng

[09] Warrior
I was in training mode recently and tried some stuff.
I was hoping NSS avoid her 2A+B or 4A+B but no, too bad :/
66B+K beat 2A+B (didn't test 4A+B) but you have to have godlike reaction (66A+B doesn't work)

I always lost against her 4A+B on guard into PO A. I tried WS B, WS K, NSS, grab. She hits me every time. Any tips ?
PO A is way to fast to be interrupted, you'll have to duck it. On the flipside you can quickstep from all her other PO stuff (PO B, K). Generally, after a 4A+B into PO, i will attempt to step, if she does any of those PO B or K, you can whiff punish her, forcing her to use PO A, heres where you start ducking it and punish accordingly.
 

Tiamat

[11] Champion
I always lost against her 4A+B on guard into PO A. I tried WS B, WS K, NSS, grab. She hits me every time. Any tips ?
use a TC move like FC 3B/66K/FC grab/FC K, etc


66B+K does not tech jump nearly as quickly as 9K or 9B