NEC Raphael impressions

Azure

[09] Warrior
#41
tbh i think the developers put the aGi in preparation to compensate for him not having a mid in preparation.

Has anyone already tweeted the developers of the wishlist?
 
Thread starter #42
tbh i think the developers put the aGi in preparation to compensate for him not having a mid in preparation.

Has anyone already tweeted the developers of the wishlist?
Prep K is a mid lol, he's got BBB high, A,B high, K mid, A+B backstep then low, and 214 aGI. If they straight up duck, kick them in the face. If they wanna do a tech crouching move, it might be something the aGI handles. We'll have to see if there's some moves that just own prep, but even if there are, it won't be the end of the world. You don't HAVE to force constant prep pressure to play Raph.
 

Azure

[09] Warrior
#43
Prep K is a mid lol, he's got BBB high, A,B high, K mid, A+B backstep then low, and 214 aGI. If they straight up duck, kick them in the face. If they wanna do a tech crouching move, it might be something the aGI handles. We'll have to see if there's some moves that just own prep, but even if there are, it won't be the end of the world. You don't HAVE to force constant prep pressure to play Raph.
I didn't even think about the kick but i didn't mean like that, i was thinking of the comment someone had posted earlier about a fast mid in prep. But now that i think again, the kick was only i20 in IV...... O.O
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
Moderator #44
a lot of characters have 3B TCing launchers that impact at between i17 to i20,

So for a basic even frame prep-entry move, the aGI is more likely to be used to draw a whiff instead of the aGI portion, as the timing for that window will be earlier than late.
 
Thread starter #45
a lot of characters have 3B TCing launchers that impact at between i17 to i20,
Do they? No guarantee that's the case again lol. Frame wise, we'll have to wait and see. For all we know his aGI backstep could be easily blown up, and we'll be right back to using prep sparingly like we have been. Doesn't LOOK like that's the case, and I got a feeling this team knows better than that. But we'll see.
 

Hudathan

[09] Warrior
#46
I don't really 'like' his new prep game because it doesn't really look like he has one. Of course that doesn't have to be a bad thing, I personally don't like playing stance characters if I don't have to. Looks like new prep will be mostly used for guaranteed damage transitioning into a SE move of your choice and then having it end there. Again it's not really a bad thing since he has better 'normals' to use now and I personally prefer it that way.
 
Thread starter #47
I don't really 'like' his new prep game because it doesn't really look like he has one. Of course that doesn't have to be a bad thing, I personally don't like playing stance characters if I don't have to. Looks like new prep will be mostly used for guaranteed damage transitioning into a SE move of your choice and then having it end there. Again it's not really a bad thing since he has better 'normals' to use now and I personally prefer it that way.
His prep game, or lack thereof, is gonna be largely dependent on how good this new auto GI is, I think. As it stands right now, they can't just attack him for free because of prep B, and they can't just duck for free because of prep K(EX). So it comes down to whether or not they can step or 2a or something similar without fear of penalty. If they step, the backstep could just reset the situation. If they attack and it has a good enough GI window, then that opens up new things.

In the end I'm sure there's going to be some moves that can handle prep really well, just a matter of how easy it is. In that case we'll vary when we go into prep and when we don't. I don't expect to be able to just DO prep whenever, but I don't see it being useless either.
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
Moderator #48
it may be an individuals' playstyle, but watching Barry's uploaded SCR raph videos showed how happy raph is content to just 2A, wrB, 2K like a madman which is ugly as hell to watch.

The only thing I noted that intrigued me was how easily SE B would mis-align and how 22B did not combo into BB. Didn't get to see a poking/spacing raph that used a lot of prep retreats and 44B/4B and evades, but o well!
 
#49
The only thing I noted that intrigued me was how easily SE B would mis-align and how 22B did not combo into BB. Didn't get to see a poking/spacing raph that used a lot of prep retreats and 44B/4B and evades, but o well!
We didn't get to see a lot of good shit. BLAME TAG
 
#52
it may be an individuals' playstyle, but watching Barry's uploaded SCR raph videos showed how happy raph is content to just 2A, wrB, 2K like a madman which is ugly as hell to watch.
Agree. Raph will be disappointing if that is seriously viable, even as sporadic gimmicks in competitive play. Let the Alexandras spam for damage.

Didn't get to see a poking/spacing raph that used a lot of prep retreats and 44B/4B and evades, but o well!
Seeing more of this now, as I think you see! But competition will be whatever works best for the least effort.
 
Thread starter #53
Dude, no. Just.......... no.

In any case damage from basic pokes has been lowered seemingly across the board. So your reward for staying RELATIVELY safe (even basic shit carries some risk if you're "spamming" it) is a lot less than it used to be. Excellent design choice by this new team.
 
Thread starter #54
Madritti, spamming 2K and 2A is not only ugly to see, but also not gonna work. In the Hilde vs Raph videos I uploaded, Hilde interrupted Raph's 2A after 2K a couple times.

I agree with your statement Kowtow. However, the Alexandra siblings do seem to, as Wuht described, "smash face" with basic moves. Even Sophitia and Cassandra had this trait. They can get in your face and do moves over and over again, doing huge damage, while you can't easily retaliate after blocking. When facing them with Raph, keep them at a distance.
Wouldn't know, never had a problem beating most Greeks lol. Then again, I never played online much. =p Only really good Cass and Soph players, like KDZ when he still played Cass and Ramon ever gave me much trouble. I just don't think they're THAT good, they're ok sure but beating strong players with them takes work BECAUSE they're so basic and straightforward.

But I mean, online Greeks? Y'all have fun with that shit lol.
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
Moderator #55
on topic: I don't know, but at-distance 3B/3(B) pokes does look like spam (but not mindless) and, since prep moves like prepBBB and prepAB are available in neutral (which also re-enter prep), I GUARANTEE you that the ignorant will accuse raph of being super spammy (like those idiots who mention prepBBBBBBB combo) without any consideration as to the frames, spacing and CH possibilities.

off topic: in SC4 A+BA was really good at slowing down the game pace when your opponent gets in and things get out of control. Hopefully SC5's A+BA had the absurd tracking that SC4 version's did.

I'm not doing the move hoping for a CH or a mixup whether i end it at 2 hits or 3 (those are bonuses), but all the moves being a must-block while being safe really helps.
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
Moderator #56
Prep has become a "super stance" sort of. Your proto-typical stance had only a few options, but all the options were generally stronger than move available from neutral (kinda like SE now) which balanced against the restricted options and limited movement.

Prep's has two attacks that are available from mid (and none of the moves from it are absurdly strong), but can now duck highs, retreat, aGI mids, while having 3 options from prep that allow re-entry.

Its definately more spammy for pressure, but less brain-dead spam because the moves arn't as dirty overpowered. I think more ignorant people will whine about SC5 prep rushdown than SC4 prep, while raph mains are going to miss the threat of prepA and SEA B's ability to CH for 55 damage for those who step-attack against Raph.
O well it's a different game so maybe it'll be easier to cope.
 
#57
Wouldn't know, never had a problem beating most Greeks lol. Then again, I never played online much. =p
I contend with Vincent. Not to say he spams. Just.. some context.

sure but beating strong players with them takes work BECAUSE they're so basic and straightforward.
I think this was my point. Or rather, WuHT's, in the first place, which I was echoing.[/quote]
 
#59
My comment is not about what works! It was,
gah why am I explaining a simple joke? It would be like if I said "Raph ought to learn a QCF". See because hurr, it's nonsense because he already has one and it's decent (it's conditionally safe!)

Perhaps I should frame this question: Do you object in some way to the way I put my statement? Was it too laden with scrubby anti-facts?
I'd like there to be some chance we can get along when you and I meet at neorussell's day 5 event.