New Player

Shinsok

[08] Mercenary
Hi everyone, I just picked up SCV for the PS3 and I'm having such a hard time learning the game. First I'd like to say that I have little to no experience at all with any games in the fighting genre (except non-competitive/childish SSBM). I have been looking around on the net for tips and understand the notation that most of you guys use, but I still have no idea what I'm doing... In fact, I'm so overwhelmed that I don't even know where to begin (Sorry!). The first thing I want to learn is how to actually learn the basics of this game. One of my biggest problems right now is that I'm a huge button spammer regardless of what combos I test during training. How do I improve on this? I know it sounds like I'm not trying to improve, but I really am and I just don't understand how you're supposed to know what to use and when! I've read a lot of the frame advantages for attacks, but I can't incorporate it when I'm actually playing at all. Are there a couple of combos that you'd always use as your "main" combos for every character or do you actually incorporate all of them? I think I'm trying to learn too many things at once. The other problem is that I can't even execute some moves correctly especially the BE's. I suppose that takes practice anyways... I'm trying to learn Pyrrha at the moment and I have a hard time against Kilik during legendary (no chance at all against Nightmare). Sorry for this lengthy post, but I really wanted to pick up this game after watching EVO 2012 and I'm really at a loss right now. By the way is the D-Pad better or analog, I find it really hard to use either of them for specific things so I'm not sure which one I should be learning. I heard most people don't need a fighting stick for this game so I don't have one of those! Thanks for the help.
 
Welcome to our home for the sanity-challenged, sir. On the things you're having difficulty with...

Mashing: Try playing Aeon, Alpha Patroklos, or Ivy for awhile and see if you start mashing less. Aeon's BBB is one of the easiest attacks in the game to deal with, so mashing it out habitually will guarantee you receive a painful punishment(and hopefully deter you from continuing that habit), Alpha Patroklos and Ivy require much more than mashing so playing them even at the lowest level should hopefully help you break your mashing habit.

Combos: It depends on the character, but basically try learning only one or two combos at a time and practice them in Training Mode until doing the input is a habit. It's probably best to focus on combos that are easy to perform at first, especially launch combos. For every character not named Ezio or Raphael, 3B is a launcher of some sort and you can play around with what keeps damaging them without giving htem a chance to escape from there, it varies wildly with different characters. Maybe you want a wallsplat with Pyrrha's 236B, maybe you want a tech trap with Tira's 44B, or maybe you just want a badass throw like Cervantes b2. Play around with it. The combo lists for the most part aren't anything other than a list of possible followups, play around in Training Mode(preferably with Air Control and Ukemi set to random) until you discover which combos are easy enough to guarantee while under pressure and hurt your victim more.

BEs: Keep A+B+K on a single button to make this easier. I'm betting the problem you're having is that you're pressing the button too soon. Try delaying it just a little bit. A couple of good moves to practice BE timing are Tira's 3AaA+B+K and Ivy's 6b8A+B+K. The former can be hit confirmed to give you a better idea of how long you can delay the A+B+K input, the latter has a bit of a tricky input with a fairly tight window to get it right which I'm imagining will help with your execution a bit---if you can consistently do Ivy's 3B ~ 6b8A+B+K combo you should probably have no issues with any BEs.

Legendary Souls and AI in General: In my scrubby observation, the AI is all about efficiency and frames. Whore out your safer moves and don't give the AI a chance to get onto the offensive. Just Guard will also be helpful against Nightmare, as slow as many of his attacks are.

Controllers: S'allgood. D-pads are fine as long as they're not in such a sorry state that they read inputs incorrectly(like the awful one the 360 controllers have). It's probably not going to be worth spending money on another controller or practicing using the analog stick instead if you're comfortable with the D-pad. Everyone tends to swear by whatever kind of device they use for the most part, so with all those varying input types surely whatever's working for you should be fine.


Oh, and as you said you may indeed be trying to do too much at once. There's a lot of info to take in and habits to break/form to reach a real competitive level. If you feel like you're being overwhelmed, slow down and focus on something smaller. If your head's spinning, you're probably trying to do too much at once :P
 
Thanks for the reply! Okay, so I've been getting the hang of using some BE's and I'm steering away from button mashing, but still there. I think my main problem with button mashing is that I'm not quite sure of what moves to use when I'm not comboing. For example what would you use in general? Like do I try to block and wait for an opportunity to AA/BBB/launch and try to setup for a combo? Or is that generally personal preference and situational? I know most people are saying to use safe moves but, I think I'm doing it "wrong" since it seems really awkward (maybe because I button mash too much). Maybe you could give me like three different scenarios so I can get a general idea of what I should be doing during a match. Something like (although this is probably too simple) Nightmare : Block Opponent's Attack > BBB (BBB being the main thing I would use when not comboing even though it's simple). I guess what I'm basically trying ask is are there bread and butter moves that you'd use mainly during the time you aren't comboing/you're trying to deal some damage to your opponent. Last thing in this post I wanna ask about is how do I get out of an opponent's combo? I've read on ukemis, but they seem to actually make it worse sometimes. I've also tried waiting before I get back up, but doesn't really help out. Or perhaps once you get stuck in certain combos there aren't really any chances afterwards (obviously low health means there really is no chance, but I mean high health (this is mainly against CPU I might add)).
 
I seriously wrote a 6 paragraph explanation of mixup tactics and using mixups to set up your combos for the new dude, and Google Chrome shuts the window and I lose the lesson. Dammit.
 
What do you use in general? There's no generally "best" attacks to work with, everything you do is something of a gamble because every attack has downsides(moreso if you're becoming predictable). How about we say you're right in your foe's face and at neutral, neither of you attacking just yet. You've got to immediatey decide which option to go with.

AA: Very fast, first hit can be canceled into G, and catches them if they try to sidestep. On the downsides, it's relatively weak, can be crouched, can be counter with some aGI moves(e.g. Xiba's B+K), and the second hit can be JG'd if the foe is someone that loves using JG and blocked the first hit.

BB: Very fast, first hit can be canceled into G and hits crouching foes. On the downsides, it can be stepped, is vulnerable to more aGI moves(Patroklos A+B for example), and the same minor JG issue applies when the first hit is blocked.

K: Very similar to AA, can be canceled with G, very very few aGI moves will repel kicks(Zwei 6 A+B), and on the downside it's less damage compared to AA or BB and can be both crouched or sidestepped.

2A: Roughly half the damage of AA, but has most of the other benefits plus entering the full crouch state if you hold 2. Usually the range isn't as good as AA, the damage certainly isn't, depending on your character it may be a special low that can be blocked high, and during most 2A attacks you're vulnerable to throws.

2B: Single hit, crouching B basically. The same downsides as BB apply, but it's vastly more difficult to JG.

2K: Low-hitting K, more or less. One additional upside is that very few aGI attacks will repel it.

3B: Creates the opportunity for the most damage, but is one of your riskiest options with a longer animation before hit and a sizable delay before you can do anything if it's blocked. In general, if your 3B is blocked your enemy gets a free 3B you can't do anything about.

A+G/B+G: If they're standing there blocking, just throw 'em flat on their ass to show them being defensive is a bad idea! On the downsides, throws are slower than most of your options and can be broken for minimum damage dealt. But then, throws also mean 40-60 damage if they guess wrong(the first button you try to break a throw with determines its success or lack thereof) and depending on your character may allow for tech traps, ring outs, or more.

G: Usually not doing damage is a bad thing, but if you block your foe's attacks the rule of thumb if that you'll be in a better position to get in guaranteed damage due to the majority of attacks putting their user at negative when they're blocked. On the downsides, you're not hurting your foe(very very important), you're inviting a throw by blocking at close range, your standing guard won't work against 2K or other lows, and crouching guard is vulnerable to mids like 3B.


So even with all these options(plus even more character-specific options) at your disposal, there is no sort of ideal action to take. Now consider that your foe is in exactly the same situation. This isn't to say things are purely a guessing game, but guesses and mindgames are a *BIG* part of basic strategy for every situation. Some situations may even appear to have an ideal attack to perform(like Cervantes' BT B+K is the general go-to move when his back is to his foe), but if it's not performed inside a combo there's always a way that the foe can deal with it.



Bread and butter moves? Depends on the characters, but for the most part they're listed in the various SAs(they still have downsides of course lol). Click the icon with a character's image at the top of the main forum index to go straight to the individual subforum.

How combos are defined in Soulcalibur is any string of attacks that cannot be escaped or interrupted unless the person performing it messes up their input. So no, there are no combos you can escape.

Ukemi is another thing that's situational and will vary with your foe and their habits as well as yours. Take Natsu and Nightmare for examples. Against Natsu, it's often wiser to lay on the ground for a moment and roll backwards to avoid her bomb ~ bodyslam combos. But then if you start staying down out of habit, she has other pesky attacks she can use including a relaunch that'll pick you up off the ground. Against Nightmare it's generally better to get up off the ground immediately, but there are tech traps where if he knocks you down with certain attacks and you get up the wrong way he can knock you right back down. If you're close, he may just start grabbing you as soon as you stand up even. The basic idea is you're supposed to be playing mindgames at all times, even when you're knocked down.


The AI is pretty different compared to human players. In short, it has perfect execution, flawless efficiency, and generally can't succumb to mindgames but on the downside it's going to whore out frames to the point where JG will be easier against it than actual human players(whoring out fast attacks isn't very good against someone that is practicing JG regularly either). It will pick up your habits quickly in Legendary Souls, it will whore out frame advantage and throws like nothing else, and it will break damn near every throw you attempt. Yeah...the AI just isn't as fun. Get to online or playing with friends offline ASAP, mister!
 
Well OP, here's some tips for using Pyrrha, though I am by no means an expert, she is one of my alts though.
Your options as stated by Wandrian are pretty spot on, though with Pyrrha there are a few more moves you can use close in to do good damage.
1AA is a low-mid combo, fairly good damage, I call it the Can Opener because it can be good for opening up people who are defending.
66A+G for Pyrrha is her infamous Cooch Driver, does a bit more damage than her standard A grab, very solid. Note you can't do this by holding 6, you have to tap it twice and then hit A+G.
236AA_236AaA+B+K this is your step killer from Pyrrhas Angel Step, her 236 stance that tech crouches and advances her towards the enemy. Fair damage and the second hit is a low.
6BK The first hit of this is high, but many online garbage players will not catch the low kick that comes after 6B. Easy damage.
One thing I'd like to say about Pyrrha about ALL of her launchers that launch the enemy in front of you is that you have two options for free damage after a launch: 236B or Critical Edge. For example, after you get a 3B, you can either hit them with 236B or her Critical Edge, your choice here.
Also, don't use 2K with Pyrrha, use 1K. It is faster, and you pretty much can't be hit after they block it.
 
I see, it'll take me some time to learn what moves to use you guys listed under all these circumstances, but that's where practice comes in anyhow. I think I came into this game thinking that it was too straightforward, everything is a lot more situational than it seems at my in-experienced first glance. I also thought that if I couldn't play against AI I shouldn't have a chance online... Is that not true? That's why I've been avoiding online gameplay this whole time...

I think the number one most important thing is, where are you from and we'll see if you can hook up with someone from here offline. Most people are friendly enough and would love to teach a new player

Hmm, the times/days I can meet up are pretty limited. Maybe online sessions?

I'm really curious, but my cousin was actually into fighters before me and he said he'd let me borrow a fighting stick for awhile to see if I liked them better, but when it comes down to it, it's more of personal preference right? Other than that, I'll try to learn most of the basics you guys have already listed here and go online.
 
Online? Do it! Do it! Do it! :D

Just be prepared for stupidit that happens with every game online. It's usually just people that you beat that are pain hahah.
 
Welcome to 8wayrun, Shinsok. It's nice to meet you. My advice on learning is always take it one baby step at a time and move at your own pace. Work on getting comfortable, then work on spamming the b'n'bs, etc. Since you're asking because you seek to the bestest, I think you'll have fun on the journey to that. Hope to see you around.
 
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