OK guys please need help with New Raph.

darkfender

darkfender

[10] Knight
I am not surely that good at fighting game but i was rather decent a SC IV and SC V nonetheless maining raphael with all problems it had

New raphael lost most tools that made old raphael what it was.
Suspect now it needs to be used differently but i am not good enough to understand how.

33K:B is gone
22B window is short no idea on how to use it....
i11 6B gone "sorta"
66a changed

33B lost most tracking

44B gone ç_ç

4B and 1a are still awesome

There are a lot of new stuff but i can t see

in few words:
What do i do now when i m not poking?
does new raphael needs to rely on preps


Any vid showing a competent rpah main?

Sould i have posted this in casual section?
 
The stuff i liked so far

1B - Awesome low which goes to prep. follow up damage to a lot of stuff that grounds and cant be linked to any other high dmg moves

3B and 22BB launch and both can be followed up with 214B in the midle of the screen for around 60* dmg

46B is a semi fast tracking high for both sides i think? (raphael really needs these)

as for stun combos, i feel like im constantly fishing for a counter with 22K or 66B to get that ~prep A, B~Prep 66B combo

Also i dont think he prep 6(GI)cancel AB before also tracks both sides


I feel like the new 1B is a great low for him and it goes to prep also a folow of for many moves you cant combo 66B , he has 44B,B now that launches and can be folowed up with 214B for around 60 dmg in the midle of the screen. also has 3B for launches which can also be folowed up with 214B.
 
AB was semitracking

But i got it now has lot of good new (offensive) stuff.
Expecially 3B is a new world to explore

But losing his signature moves like 44B and basically all defensive tool except 4B and 6K i can't understand how i am supposed to play it.

Did he change to a pressure character?

Or what do we use now for spacing and step punishing?
 
You’re playing a counter heavy and defensive character on launch day with no real idea what the average strings from opponents look like - so relax ;)

Right now I’m using a lot of 66B, 1B, 6B46, 6BB and 66A+B. The rest are standard pokes such as 1A, new 1K (old 11K) and 6AA.

Try to land SE B for a 66B+K 4 B 2A+B follow up that leaves you in prime position for pokes. Follow smaller launches such as 66A+B with 6A+B 214B. If you land a counter 66B, you can follow with Prep AB Prep KKB.
 
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Don't really get into the habit of relying on B maneuvers too much. The faster 8wr leaves Raph on the hook for whiff punishes against more savvy opponents, especially at mid/long range, which is where nost of us are used to having a distinct advantage.

I'll do a comprehensive rundown on what good run counters are when I get home from work.
 
TY
Most problems comes where i see atacks coming and i don't find any option

I also suspect that prep suffers stepG a little too much once again

First i'd need options from neutral to control spacing at least a little.

then also prep
most options are range dependent and not real mixups
Example on SE since:

B and A can be both beaten by step G on hit and on reaction (prep is really slow or maybe i am delaying the commands too much dunno)..
6K is slow

4 followups are short ranged

Raph lost basically all tools used for spacing escept a couple
What i feel the most is the lack of a backstepping tool like 44B the new one is way worse....

Bascially the spacing game is gone for me...unles i find replacements.
First time i struggle with range with rapahel
If you see any decent raphael vid
 
I think 44B is wrapped up in SC now. His/Amy’s RocknRoll slide stab is in there as well.

For outside of SC, I’m gaining respect for B4 and 46B
 
Von_Blackhardt said:
Also, here's my two cents - this may be the weakest Raphael has ever been.
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That would make me quit the game...

Tired of struggling 3X to get Always the short end of the stick....

SCIV low/mid, SCV starts as mid tier gets nerfed TWICE to low until it loses all mixups...this would be last soucalibur for me -.-
Its too early to actually say its bad since it still has his 236B punisher, 4B and some nice pokes but i had the same impression....

What i ve seen is how easily prep is countered even on HIT this time not even stepping.
 
At least he has his 4B, Doesn't stun automatically though, which is annoying. The guard impact on AG only works on low verticals, which is fucking useless.

Also, what's the deal with 6A+B? Why does it just force you to do his A input from the previous games? Like, why can't Raphael just have a standalone sidestep? There's no play.

Losing crimson moon out of 8WR is probably the biggest bummer out of everything. Literally his only reliable anti-air answer, turned into some horseshit combo out of prep. I'm tired of watching other characters look like they can basically do whatever they want, with an abundance of useful horizontals AND verticals that *gasp* track. I'm tired of getting hit by like, one move in a string (not even on CH) only for it to turn into a combo that does 80 damage, while I have to fish for counter-hits to get like, the one reliable combo I can do out the door?

The problem is that they thought it was a good idea to have a character with a strict emphasis on vertical attacks, while also making about 80% of his horizontal attacks somehow steppable, and the only few left, weak. Meanwhile, Knightmare gets a GI Critical Edge, an armor knockdown, and if any single one of his moves (none of which are very slow at all, by the way) connect, kiss a third of your life bar, if not more, goodbye. Ivy gets a command grab that does a ton of damage and can only be blocked low, rings out. in addition to high-damage, high-range horizontals.

What do we get? An outmoded stance and some useless low attacks with a backdash guard impact that guard impacts, guess what? Low verticals. WooOOaAAhhHH!!! Because that's what someone is going to instinctively throw at you to try interrupt your prep spam, right? Definitely not a quick high.

Speaking of lows, let's also talk about Raphael's low options. Spoiler: They're awful. They are either standalone, vertical (and easily steppable pokes). or at the end of a string with zero options for any kind of mixup (I'm looking at you, 4A+B, A) The only ones that are capable of inflicting knockdowns are incredibly slow - barring Dark Stinger (K during AG, which happens to come with a just frame that is only worth doing against female characters, and Geralt, because following it up with 4A+B, A does more damage)

Maybe once I actually git gud with Raphael, I'll look back at this post and be amused by the salt, but having spent two days with this Raphael, I definitely feel overall less capable than I have in previous games. This hyper-aggressive prep spam playstyle that they are nudging us towards is not a good look.
 
Actually they explicitly said they want weak characters. .but it has become a joke how they are treating raphael. They nerfed all tools that were used in tournaments since sciv I struggle to see it not being intentional unless they lost time in testing it as new and giving him a new strat. Would be awesome to hear something from devs.

P.s. everyone knows a+b a is both steppable and techable on left. The huge problem is even prep have been nerfed... i guess when we will see frames we will know we have bad 33% mixups for few damage on hit opposed by devastating punishments. Prep options are many but always range dependent and they ends up being mostly 1 or 2 at best
 
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Raph is strong as hell in this game compared to 4 and 5 lmao. Actual whiff punishment and launchers, a fast plus on hit low that isn't stab punishable, tons of tools that work well with the new mechanics, etc.

btw his AG GIs generic 2As and 2Ks so it's not just verticals
 
4 Raph was *much* stronger. Tracking verticals that can't be just stepped with no effort, strigoi envelopement out of prep for horizontal movement options, (strigoi envelopement was just better in 4, don't even fuck w/ me) and a literal teleport for scummy Ivy players.

I like what they've done with prep, but it came at a heavy cost. The fast movement on this game automatically nerfs Raphael into the dirt.

Also, nobody is going to try and throw a low of any kind into prep - that goes for double if they do literally any research. AG would be so much more threatening if it GI'd mids.
 
Paragon049 said:
Raph is strong as hell in this game compared to 4 and 5 lmao. Actual whiff punishment and launchers, a fast plus on hit low that isn't stab punishable, tons of tools that work well with the new mechanics, etc.

btw his AG GIs generic 2As and 2Ks so it's not just verticals
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2a was nerfed in scv compared to iv 2k tracks right and left is weak side. Saying raph was weaker in iv is simply wrong. In scv raph was viable at launch..then eated 2 straight nerfs that made him unviable agai st any prepared player (see particular use of step g shut down 100% mixups). Raph was always a spacing poking character...explain me what s left of his tool. Also i strongly think that framelist will show even prep is terrible
 
Nah scv raph was the best raph so far. Still labbing sc6 raph so no input yet but he seems to have a new playstyle cuz some things he has seem real strong. Prep is good, dont sleep on it
 
youngfox said:
Nah scv raph was the best raph so far. Still labbing sc6 raph so no input yet but he seems to have a new playstyle cuz some things he has seem real strong. Prep is good, dont sleep on it
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It was at release... (barely mid tier though) Then got 2 nerfs in 2 Patches and after that it got totally useless..

For strong you mean: Prep on 1B a vertical low negative on hit? (in 2 weeks it will be autopunish)
Prep on parry is Always punishable so i don't get what strong option you mean.
 
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darkfender said:
It was at release... (barely mid tier though) Then got 2 nerfs in 2 Patches and after that it got totally useless..

For strong you mean: Prep on 1B a vertical low negative on hit? (in 2 weeks it will be autopunish)
Prep on parry is Always punishable so i don't get what strong option you mean.
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Nah even after the nerf he was pretty good. Prep opened you up for SE and he got a solid mix up off if 2a. Also 1b seems to be 0as a prep entry and negative enough on hit to go for b + k
 
youngfox said:
Nah even after the nerf he was pretty good. Prep opened you up for SE and he got a solid mix up off if 2a. Also 1b seems to be 0as a prep entry and negative enough on hit to go for b + k
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And wich option exactly would beat left QuicktepG?

Same issue in scVI (without the quick)

what about left stepG and Tcrouch?
4, puts rapahel out of range if opponent won t advance.

Only doubt would be if you find a use of SE A (that is quite slow) and we get into a 50% mixup for 20 damage against how much?
 
Your se choice would beat it since sea b tracked on delay in scv. In sc6 it seems like prep a off a 1b would catch and give a run counter. On Tc right now if u got a hard read you can for prep 6b, prep aa for a safe one ( not sure on frame advantage on it but should be safe on block), or transition into se for the mix up. Prep a beats things like sophies AS A or hell since 1b is safe mix up prep and no prep and use one of our nice new lethal hits
 
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