Patroklos General Chat

WuHT

Premium Moderator
66B:
One of the few things that make Patroklos competitively viable. Launch punishable on whiff, and catching backstep without having premonition or advantage first is rare.
"Launch punishable on whiff" is a property that is on the majority of moves, and doesn't balance against 66B from being absurdly strong.

On paper its a i21 decently ranged mid combo launcher that is -2 on block, while leading to 82 damage minimum. A lot of characters would kill for a move like this. Its got a fat enough hitbox so that stepping into a punish has to have a delay or risk eating 66B from the side. I'd have to say that move isn't the only reason pat is competitively viable, but it is still absurdly strong..

People say that his lows are supposed to be neutral or worse on hit. Pat's AA is i12 and the range is laughable.
He is not a fast character.
That slots pat with maxi, viola, pyrrah omega if that is how you gauge "speed" based on AAs. Thats faster than average, which is probably mitsu's i13 AA standard.


66B is the only move that i'd put as a "problem move" because the risk/reward becomes too retarded.
1K I think isn't as much a problem, so I don't know if it warrants a nerf. If there is a nerf to it, I don't think the frames should change (+2 seems to do the job) so maybe drop the kick below 20 damage so roachy unseeable lows actually suffer a bit from the orange-hp bar reduction.
 

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
66B is the only move that i'd put as a "problem move" because the risk/reward becomes too retarded.
Well, lots of moves in the game are like this. Like Viola SET 3B, or Algol 66B, aPat 33B...

66B is strong, yes. That makes people step.

3A is slow, 66A is slow, 236A(B) is unsafe. Pat's anti-step (esp. at midrange) is not particularly good, it just does its job.

maybe drop the kick below 20 damage so roachy unseeable lows actually suffer a bit from the orange-hp bar reduction.
actually, 1K does get cut by "guts", at that point I usually use 2A+B instead if I can get close enough to hit it.

20 pts seems fair to me considering it is -18.


People get around my "broken" stuff all of the time. Maybe I just have a problem with the word.

A skewed risk/reward tool doesn't win the game for you, it's just a very good tool. I know multiple players that (unfortunately for me) are good at bypassing these...
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
Well, lots of moves in the game are like this. Like Viola SET 3B, or Algol 66B, aPat 33B...
Its easier to deal with moves like those when you have one of your own. Even then I'd say pat's 66B is the strongest in your list when considering damage (both meter and unmetered), safety and range despite being slower.

actually, 1K does get cut by "guts", at that point I usually use 2A+B instead if I can get close enough to hit it.
Yes its exactly 20 damage I misread that.

A skewed risk/reward tool doesn't win the game for you, it's just a very good tool.
I think the point we're not exactly addressing is when a move is "retardedly good" as opposed to just a "very good tool".
Due to the nature of accepting nerfs, only significantly material changes should be done on retardedly good moves and I think 66B is one of those moves.
 

Kenjitsu_Hokori

[10] Knight
Still out of the fray 66B is his best poking tool from mid screen and when people have great poke tools why take his away? He isn't broken by any means and to say he is (not saying you are) is just stupid really. Unlike Pyrrha pat poke game is truly limited and when 66B is practically his best one you might as well let the man keep it.
 

Slade

[14] Master
Honestly, people just look at the risk/reward of damage on hit/unsafety on block. Considering verticals are meant to be stepped, the risk/reward for 66B is pretty much balanced (80 damage on hit, risk of 40~100 damage on hit depending on the opponent's character). The RO potential with CE is somewhat absurd and the wonky hitbox on one side that makes it harder to step punish are the biggest issues with it, in my opinion. At 66B's tip range (the ideal range you should be fighting against Pat at), Pat's stepkills are limited to 66A (i25; you can cancel 8wayrun into G on reaction) and 236AB (less range than 66A, unsafe on both hits).

Now, if it was a horizontal attack, then I could understand the complaints, but I don't understand why people insist on nerfing the block frames of moves that are meant to be sidestepped for punishes. If Pat had Cerv's 1AB, that'd make sense, but his antistep is average, below average outside of 44A range.
 

Ramus

[14] Master
Hum guess is cuz lost Cassandra and he is the closest char to her, and sword and shield are so good
 

MeatSim64

[08] Mercenary
Only one that does a back flip while saying "Fear my...SKILLS!". And his win quotes are some serious troll material.
 

AVNjonnitti

Hot Dog
Because CE ringouts are hilarious on the raft stage and the cave stage with the triangle island (idk what they are actually called)
 

georgenymous

[09] Warrior
Sorry, but I couldn't help but notice a lot of online scrubs trying to attack me after I 1K. I check with BB after a confirmed 1K. If they get hit by BB then I check again with BB. I've gone through entire rounds with people who just refuse to block. One person even called me cheap. Then I said "GG's but if you wanna win then learn to block." While do prefer fighting competent players rather than scrubs, I do get a slightly warm feeling when scrubs refuse to learn. As a lot of tourney players suggest: "If it works, abuse it until it doesn't" I never knew being so cheap would make me all happy.