Power-to-Weight Ratio

DrakeAldan

DrakeAldan

Follow the rules!
While studying combos today, something occurred to me.

Damage scaling effects all combos, which is why multi-hits from Viola don't end up doing too much.

That being said, if damage scaling is affecting Brave Edges and Critical Edge in combos, then we are losing something, right?

I compared the normal combos I had gathered with the Brave Edge combos, and then I looked at the Brave Edge and Critical Edge individually.

I found that for spending 50-100% meter, returns on investment were minimal at best.

Let's look at some combos.

3B, 236B vs 3B, 236B BE.

Normal combo does 56 damage.
BE combo does 65 damage.

You are paying 50% meter for 9 points of damage. That is unacceptable.

1B, 66A+B vs 1B, 1B BE, AA.

Normal combo does 67 damage.
BE combo does 74 damage.

You are paying 50% meter for 7 points of damage! Preposterous!

66B, 66B+K, 66A+B vs 66B, 66B+K, 236B BE.

Normal combo does 80 damage.
BE combo does 80 damage.

You are paying 50% meter for ABSOLUTELY NO REASON AT ALL!!!

You get my point. Now, Critical Edge, in 2-hit combos, does fare a little better, but, let's see:

wrA+B, 3KK, 66A+B vs wrA+B, CE.

Normal combo does 74 damage.
CE combo does 99 damage.

You are paying 100% meter for 25 points of damage. Not as bad as the previous combos, but, still pretty bad, as BB does 32 damage, and you can land BB, right?!

If we look at it like using 2 Brave Edges, you'd get 12.5 damage points each, which is closer to the ratios we saw in the combos above. Pretty pathetic, for what you're paying.

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Now, using Brave Edge and Critical Edge outside of combos is a different story.
Let's look at all of the edge moves.

1B BE - This move just sucks. -12 on block, less damage than the 1B normal combo. Terrible, don't use this.

66A BE - Now this is what I'm talking about. Combo with 66A+B for 83 damage. You paid 50%, you get a step killer that is advantage on block and 83 damage if you hit. That's getting your money's worth!

236B BE - Combo with 2B+K for 64 damage. Now magically safe, to give you breathing room during your punishment attempts. Not too shabby!

CE - 13 frames, incredible as an interrupt or punish. You pay 100% meter for 90 damage, or about 45 damage for two potential Brave Edges. With the utility of the CE used correctly, that's not bad, though its use is situational, and in most cases it would be better to use 66A or 236B Brave Edges.

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So what does this all mean?

Brave Edge and Critical Edge are best used naked. If you have your enemy launched, and he is near death (or in CE's case, at the edge of the ring), it would be wise to use a BE or CE (preferably 2-hit CE) combo to end the match instead of risking a desperate one-pixel comeback. However, if you have meter and both players are at full health, it is best to use normal combos only and save your meter for naked Brave Edge, naked Critical Edge, or Guard Impact.

Thanks for reading, and I hope this helps you with your matches in the future.
 
I may as well post this for posterity's sake.

Here are the Brave Edge and Critical Edge combos, with damage point values taken from comparing them to normal combos. I've only listed combos with positive point values (there are combos with negative values).

1B, 1B BE, AA (+7)
3B, 236B BE (+9)
1B, 1B BE, 3B (+12)

CE:

CH 6BBB 66B+K CE (+14)
66B 66B+K CE (+16)
wrA+B, CE (+24)
22_88B, CE (+25)
3B, CE (+39)
CH 44A, CE (+47)
B+K, CE (+68, since there is no combo off of B+K. A relatively good investment, if you hit B+K.)

You may notice I have not listed combos that go past 100% meter; I figure, if you are using BE/CE properly, you will not be sitting on 1.5-2 bars with the opponent's health low enough to warrant that kind of spending.
 
Great information man; one fundamental flaw. 66A BE can be stepped after the first hit and punished pretty hard making it slightly less viable.
 
Interesting.

I can replicate what you say, and at the same time, the second hit catches my quickstep, step, and 8-way-run.

Either I'm doing it wrong, or the timing seems very, very tight.

With this knowledge in mind, I would still be willing to take this risk, even if it meant occasionally using regular 66A to trip them up.
 
Nice! Good to see things looked at from the viewpoint of efficiency. I think naked BE's are pretty much the best way to spend meter.
 
ShenYu raised a good point about wakeups. A combo shouldn't be assessed exclusively on its damage output. Sometimes having an effective way to continue pressure after the fact is preferable to dealing more damage but resetting the match.
 
Nine or so damage can mean all the difference between life and death in some situations. I'd spend 50%-100% of my meter if I knew it was going to net me a round.
 
66A BE is really bad to throw it out just like that. The second hit is steppable to his right immediately, or aGI, or just JG it and free launcher. Anyone who doesn't do this obviously doesn't know the matchup yet. You should use the BE for whiff punishing only. It's pretty gay dmg imo.

You have a point in the meter wastage. 236B BE after 3B guarantees very good wakeup pressure, at the corner you get free dmg as well. GI is even better in this game, so sometimes it's better to save it for GI.

Oh and CE lands your opponent in BT off the ground once you land it, so if they try and mash off the ground, they will be in BT and thus a BT move will be executed.
 
ShenChan said:
66A BE is really bad to throw it out just like that. The second hit is steppable to his right immediately, or aGI, or just JG it and free launcher. Anyone who doesn't do this obviously doesn't know the matchup yet.
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All the more reason for me to use more Guard Impacts. Thanks.
 
I was thinking about it.

I'll look at naked 236B BE some more to see if it has weaknesses like 66A BE. But-

If 66A BE is situational (66A is still so good though, yes!) then that means I can save my meter.

In which case, I can think about Guard Impact, and I can think about CE punishing more often.

Now that's like... 90 damage or so I would not have been able to get punishing with a normal. I guess when you're low on health you wanna save your meter, but... maybe using CE early on as a 13 frame punish is not a bad idea.

Any thoughts?
 
Yea you can use it as a punisher.

You can punish generic 2K with it too. I haven't tested the rest but if you JG Omega's A, A or B, B you get a free CE as well. It's important to know what you can punish with CE and what you can't.

Regarding 66A, using it as a whiff punisher is totally worth the meter. 40 dmg to 80+.
 
Hmm, I guess the damage is comparable to 66B as whiff punish too huh? and it's not so terribly steppable if you mess up.

Good %^&* man, thanks.
 
OK, so, 236B BE, GI possible, JG possible, steppable to the right but not left. But, no aGI (maybe?)

I guess 236B BE is just like 66A BE, then. Only use when it's gonna hit.


Ahh, meter management just became a lot simpler.
 
DrakeAldan said:
I guess 236B BE is just like 66A BE, then. Only use when it's gonna hit.
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Very disappointing, although I guess most of these Brave Edges people are throwing out are going to turn out to be unsafe when people learn the matchups.
 
236b be is probably pretty safe to throw out naked as long as done sparingly. The time between hits isn't large enough to react to unless you're looking for it.
 
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