Pre Release SC6 Zasalamel Gameplay Discussion

[AndyrooSC]

Yeah, he looks proper solid in this game. What principle moves, if any, is he missing from SC3?

Principle moves?

 

[Mantis2K]

In other words: has he lost anything major since SC3?

 

[Evil_Zutus]

Most notable move that seems absent is his scIV 6B+K. It was the pull with guardbreak. In IV it was very in consistent because it could push out if you did it from too far.

66A seems gone but won't be missed, slow horizontal mid with poor range. Zas's step kill seemed to have improved with the threat of a delayed safe 3AB.

Haven't seen his WS K from IV, that was a good kick.

SC IV attack throw wsB, the animation is there but haven't seen the attack throw.

1BBA string, this was his worst move ever, two rather slow vertical mids ending in a horizontal high, only gave crumple stun.

SCIII 1 AA, low horizontal sweep into high, but he gets something similar during soul charge.

That's about what I can think of. I'm majorly excited for his return. He looks so solid in this game, with more mind games than he's ever had. I always liked to bait with half completed strings, looks like he has more options regarding that, I wonder what the frames will be. :)

 

[Mantis2K]

OK cheers for the info! But somebody said before that he had been toned down beginning with SCIII:AE? Not sure what they meant... he looks badder than ever before.

 

[Evil_Zutus]

Imo he had better low mid mixups in scIII, scAE started resembling scIV. SC IV saddled him with abysmal lows, instead gaining better mid throw mixups from the draw game, which is always inferior due to throw escape. Looking back at it, Zas really had to expose himself to be dangerous (negative frames on blocked draw moves). So I think losing the draw mechanic might not be such a problem, he still has a ton of moves to reposition the enemy and to pull them close.

 

[Kaz]

His draw isnt actually gone, they integrated into BB and 2b on hit(i think only on hit). So it seems better that it was in 4 since i think they both safe oB. His new 66A is definetly better than sc4 and might be better than sc3 since he can delay the 2nd hit to possibly be safe or CH. Did hope he got the sc3 1AA back but he got comp'd with sc 1A and 11A being + on hit.

 

[Kaz]

You guys might need take a dive in the pre realese matches so zas doesnt get nerfed on release lol. Pre release< console release.

 

[AndyrooSC]

So as the CEO exhibition matches with Zas show us 22B - 66A+B - BT B+K combo

 

[AndyrooSC]

 

[Mantis2K]

Only 2 time stops and 2 soul charges!? But he looks good in soul charge...

 

[AndyrooSC]

Only 2 time stops and 2 soul charges!? But he looks good in soul charge...

So I didn't map my buttons so I didn't have a short cut for my A+B+K and it wasn't till we see those SCs I manage to manually press all 3 to start pulling it off lol

As for time stops, especially for my first few games playing him and trying to implement it, its not as easy as it looks, since I wasn't used to it and was focusing on trying to win them as it was my first few games playing SC6 lol

We will have couple more games I play uploaded eventually, CEO matches, Jimbo character breakdown and still have every intent of making a post GIFing every move so with all that info im going to be alot more ready for July 20th-22nd with what we learn.

 

[Evil_Zutus]

Of course the game is brand new and it being the first time you played scVI excuses the execution problems :p

Just some pointers and ideas:

A fully blocked 4B+K left you only slightly negative in scIV, there were instances in the video where you maybe could have interrupted NM with a 4A right after. People tend to run into it after a blocked 4B+K. Could you check if 4A has full tracking like in scBD, or bad tracking like in scIV.

Never leave a back turned opportunity unused. There are a few moments where you could have inserted a btB+K. If it doesn't hit it still gives you advantage with its guard break. Bt B+K is a beastly move :). I wonder if Zas will be able to choose where you position the enemy off of overhead launchers (like 4B+K, 4B:B, etc...), depending on wether you end with bt B+K or bt BB, the enemy could end up in front or behind you. I also wonder if bt BB would allow you to continue the combo with eg 6BB or 6BK.

You could check for the existence of the following tech trap, which I used a lot: 4B CH into 3AB.

Is ukemi automatic when you hold block, or is it like scV where you have to time your G press just right? I prefer automatic because ukemi happens more often, making tech traps stronger.

 

[AndyrooSC]

Of course the game is brand new and it being the first time you played scVI excuses the execution problems :p

Just some pointers and ideas:

A fully blocked 4B+K left you only slightly negative in scIV, there were instances in the video where you maybe could have interrupted NM with a 4A right after. People tend to run into it after a blocked 4B+K. Could you check if 4A has full tracking like in scBD, or bad tracking like in scIV.

Never leave a back turned opportunity unused. There are a few moments where you could have inserted a btB+K. If it doesn't hit it still gives you advantage with its guard break. Bt B+K is a beastly move :). I wonder if Zas will be able to choose where you position the enemy off of overhead launchers (like 4B+K, 4B:B, etc...), depending on wether you end with bt B+K or bt BB, the enemy could end up in front or behind you. I also wonder if bt BB would allow you to continue the combo with eg 6BB or 6BK.

You could check for the existence of the following tech trap, which I used a lot: 4B CH into 3AB.

Is ukemi automatic when you hold block, or is it like scV where you have to time your G press just right? I prefer automatic because ukemi happens more often, making tech traps stronger.

I will be adding these to the test list :)
Yeah Zas BT game looks hella strong in game especially with his BT 2K also so once I'm familiar with all BT situations and set ups we are all set :)

As for ukemi I can't exactly remember I was doing it like SC5 but it didn't always work so it could be how it is in SC4, again something to test and get back to you on.

 

[Evil_Zutus]

I hate how at the end of the video NM was at disadvantage, yet he could ignore it and land his CE. That's the downside of it being a one button press. I think I prefer 236236 A+B+K as an input specificaly for situations like these.

 

[AndyrooSC]

Yeah 66B into CE worked so much on me because my brain is trained to 2A his 33B animation to stop grim stride options from SC5 ><

 

[Evil_Zutus]

Yeah, but it's even more obvious after you land soul charge 1A. I guess good play will involve giving up your advantage to bait CE when they're sitting on meter... It's also a situation where I would have prefered it if throw could beat GI, like you do a pull into throw and stuff a GI'ing CE attempt.

 

[AndyrooSC]

Yeah, but it's even more obvious after you land soul charge 1A. I guess good play will involve giving up your advantage to bait CE when they're sitting on meter... It's also a situation where I would have prefered it if throw could beat GI, like you do a pull into throw and stuff a GI'ing CE attempt.

I think actually lows stuff out Nightmare CE, so SC 1AB, 2K, 1K, 2B+K etc so that is a option to mix it up I guess

 

[Mantis2K]

Talon has put up all those matches now

 

[AndyrooSC]

So here is the Zas moves @Silent Joel got recorded for us performed by myself. Im aware after CEO breakdown and matches we see some additional moves not included in that video so thats where im gonna GIF the missing ones here(again subject to change) -

aB

Party wolf found this move during the breakdown vid. Its SC4 Zas old 22A, however that move was high and this to me looks kinda mid. Im interested to see this moves hit level and general safety. (its on my notes to test)

3A

Honestly imo this move turns his 3A series from decent to good, The second hit when held as of the CEO build goes from unsafe to neutral on block. This allows you to still check ducking and stepping opponents with the first hit and if they are waiting to punish regular 3AB, you end up bringing them to you at neutral giving you all kinds of options (6K/3K/2A/AA frame traps/JumpB/RE/GI). You could interupt it if you expect it, which just makes your 3AB and 3AK options better,

6AB LH

So the conditions for the B to LH is the A to whiff and the B to hit crouching. You could try to use this string tip range mixing up the 6A and 6AB.

BBB

Can't believe i forgot to do this move for Silent Joel lol But yeah BB on hit brings them in like SC4 BB4, speed also feels like sc4 so still probs i16 as for rough advantage doesnt feel like much so 2A probs a good choice. And BBB third hit easily stepped.

6BK

Looks like afterall he does have this string. Looks like you can get a decent combo follow up (3AB imagine the hype reverse RO) if your opponents tries to attack after 6B. Looks like you can use 6B in oki situations if they remain on floor you can hit confirm 6BB and if they block 6B and try to press advantage you have the threat of 6BK in the back.

1BB (When at least one curse on opponent)

So when the opponent has at least one curse then 1BB will time stop if the 1B hits or is blocked. Me and Hyrul tested if they is a way to prevent the time stop, after blocking the 1B we tried everything RE and GI dont work and whats funny is it lets you JG but time stops happens to you regardless.

CH 4B:B

This JF almost exactly the same as SC4, the only difference with CH 4B the second hit comes out automatically then you must press the JF.
I guess this makes it easier to hit confirm in time to land the JF.

66A+BB (with curse)

Here is the other time stop move. I imagine here you could get some BT B+K combo on hit. I am also eager to find out the options you get on block which each curse.

8B+K

2p Zas on the right using 8B+K. This is the move we saw in the middle of jon nitti's 22B combo (22B - 8B+K - BT B+K). I believe outside of combos its unsafe.

SC 3AKB

For the sake of adding each one and i forgot to do this when doing the moves, here is SC 3AKB. So I bet what will happen with this move overtime is first we will see Zas players when it SC to go for 3AK just because it has the last hit, in which you can know that and duck the K and punish. So then Zas players can adapt and can pop SC and for 3AB/3A(B) to mix that up. This is probably the best thing i can think of for this move however considering meter using SC is valuable you probably wont wanna watse your time using this one and should be using SC A+B and SC 1AB instead.

SC A+G

Some reason I never check the most basic input for this throw but here it is. Quite damaging and good oki so going to be strong when they have to tech 4A+B to not be reverse RO'd. Then again we do have 6A+G2B which i imagine is a front throw and depending on the angle could reverse RO aswell.

SC 22B

If you get a whiff punish with 22B in SC looks like you get a alternative combo that leads to BT B+K hold into a better oki situation than the non SC 22B combo.

SC 2A+B

So when I was first looking at post GI options and seen 2A+B didnt LH when countering a GI/RE i thought fuck thats a bit on the weak side, I knew A+B LHs but thats a high so a incorrect read I was getting fucked, then jimbo and PW come out with this breakdown and show what 2A+B does in SC and thats much much better. just look at that oki and they get a curse aswell?? 1BB/66A+BB/another SC 2A+B/SC 1AB/B+KB etc your options are pretty insane here.

Finally CE couldnt be bothered to GIF it as im sure we have seen it 1000 times already but its worth noting it puts a curse on opponent on hit and block.

 

[Evil_Zutus]

I think you've go pretty much everything covered. But I've seen in one vid Zas's sc IV wsB, where could it have gone? Also his wsK (old sc IV 3K) has an overhead vertical follow up, i've seen it pass by in one vid.