Prep Shenanigans!! ^_^

I have felt for some time that Prep lacks in design quite a bit; moreso than just this recent Taki discussion. :\

No real advice I can personally give right now; other than perhaps after a connected 3~ Prep BB (don't enter prep) - learn mixups from there, as well.
 
The best advice that can be given about Prep is use less of it and enter it from more than 1 move.
 
After playing Raph hard for a few weeks because I liked his style I have come to the realization that he is greatly lacking in a lot of areas especially prep. If only he had a horizontal mid out of prep that would help greatly but since he doesnt it means that all his options can be stepped or blocked and punished :(

He has a few favorable matchups but once someone knows his options or lack thereof and how to counter them it gets real frustrating
 
Hello.

I think we have to keep in mind what Holy Force said in the beginning of this discussion.
(except the last sentence : "prep is not useful").

To summarize your tests, we can say : versus an oppenant that knows well the possibilties of raphael's prep (which is not always the case any way), prep sucks if the move that have led to prep has been blocked...

BUT
1. (weak argument) With great skills I think it is possible to see that the first strike is blocked and to interrupt the prep (release B instead of keeping it) => no prep

2. (strong argument) The major interst of prep is that some moves that are leading to it stunt the opponent. Thus, the idea is to succeed to arrive into prep with a CH. Which is not impossible at all!
2.a) Exemple of 4 if your opponent launches an high horizontal attack, 4 will auto evade it and tuch him in CH, then you'll be ready for major combo with prep.

2.b) If you step a strong move, 4 will certainly give you a good opportunity to punish the imprudent!

So, to my mind, it is impossible to be so manichean with prep. It seems that it has to be used wisely and with precision on the time you hold down the B button to enter prep (which is not easy for me), but that the spirit of this game... no? : mind game and timing.
 
Prep on-hit's threat level is also greatly reduced by the defender crouch guarding, in a situation such as on-hit 3~Prep B~Prep. If you risk the unsafe Prep A, it's pathetic damage and -6 on NH, Prep B will whiff and be punished, and all stances can be recongized and interrupted with 2A easily or whatnot.

I wish Namco would review and improve Preperation.
 
Prep on-hit's threat level is also greatly reduced by the defender crouch guarding, in a situation such as on-hit 3~Prep B~Prep. If you risk the unsafe Prep A, it's pathetic damage and -6 on NH, Prep B will whiff and be punished, and all stances can be recongized and interrupted with 2A easily or whatnot.

I wish Namco would review and improve Preperation.
Well, Prep on hit gives the opponent much less time to react. If someone can interrupt your stances consistently, you really need to mix up more. I've fought a few people that have caught on to 2A or 2K interrupts, and Prep K worked nicely on those. Once they caught on and waited to block Prep K, that gave me time to go into VE or SEA. Of course, if they try to interrupt Prep K with a fast mid or high, then Prep BB or Prep A would work again.

It becomes a complete guessing game, but the risk/reward is usually just 2A or 2K and losing momentum. You just have to be real careful against players with good fast tech crouching moves like: Seig's 3B, Mitsu's 1A, and Voldo's lunging thing.
 
Well, Prep on hit gives the opponent much less time to react. If someone can interrupt your stances consistently, you really need to mix up more. I've fought a few people that have caught on to 2A or 2K interrupts, and Prep K worked nicely on those. Once they caught on and waited to block Prep K, that gave me time to go into VE or SEA. Of course, if they try to interrupt Prep K with a fast mid or high, then Prep BB or Prep A would work again.

It becomes a complete guessing game, but the risk/reward is usually just 2A or 2K and losing momentum. You just have to be real careful against players with good fast tech crouching moves like: Seig's 3B, Mitsu's 1A, and Voldo's lunging thing.

As I stated above, crouching guard and hold. Prep K will be blocked. SEA and VE are easily seen and 2A'd. I don't understand your 'harder to react to on-hit'. That doesn't make sense to me. Just because I'm being hit or in a stun doesn't make their moves any faster or harder/easier to see. Regardless, if you're hit by 3~PrepB~Prep just hold guard and down and watch for SEA/VE, otherwise punish or eat about 10~ from Prep A which you make them risk (it's unsafe).

This is why I hardly ever re-enter Prep anymore against smart players. It's 3~Prep BB into a spaced -2 position which offers better mix-ups, including the RARE re-enter prep, if at all.
 
You're right about all that, but I just don't think most people can react that fast consistently. And all you're going to risk is a 2A. Even then, Prep BB can hit 2A if they time it wrong (which is retarded, but yeah).

If they get hit with a move that goes into Prep, that doesn't give them less frames to react in?

edit: I know, that's not a strong argument but until I see someone actually shutting down Prep completely like you're describing, I'm going to use it.
 
agreed. Use and abuse until they learn i guess.

I hope your backup plan is better than mine : 3B followed by another 3B.
 
You're right about all that, but I just don't think most people can react that fast consistently. And all you're going to risk is a 2A. Even then, Prep BB can hit 2A if they time it wrong (which is retarded, but yeah).

If they get hit with a move that goes into Prep, that doesn't give them less frames to react in?

edit: I know, that's not a strong argument but until I see someone actually shutting down Prep completely like you're describing, I'm going to use it.


You can't 2A immediately after being hit by Prep BB; but that's not what I said to do. I said to duck. Then, if you see them go back into Prep and do Prep BB over your head, you whiff punish AFTER the 2nd Prep B, which is easy to do.

If you duck the only thing that can hit you is Prep A, everything else you can react to fairly easily with a decent amount of practice. I find it easy with practice. Prep A is negative on NH, pathetic damage, and unsafe should they block it.

We are talking 2A because it's pretty much all-around. There are much better options esp from the sisters.

If you fight someone who understands and has practice reacting to Prep and executes just as well, I think you might share my opinion a bit more. If anything, your risk for your potential reward is very bad.

Lately against good prepared people, I only use 3~Prep at max distance or for punishment. The real mixup with Prep after 3~Prep BB, I believe, is weither or not you're insane enough to re-enter Prep and throw out a Prep A. That keeps them in check on your -2 of that situation.

I'll write more letter. Please continue the discussion :D
 
Lately against good prepared people, I only use 3~Prep at max distance or for punishment. The real mixup with Prep after 3~Prep BB, I believe, is weither or not you're insane enough to re-enter Prep and throw out a Prep A. That keeps them in check on your -2 of that situation.

I'll write more letter. Please continue the discussion :D


On hit after 3~prep BB, whats the difference between from renterering prep and trying to stuff counter attacks with prep A, as opposed to just finishing your prep BBB string?

I mean the reward on prep A CH'ing is obviously bigger, and both moves on block are rather unsafe.

On block from 3~prep BB, are the evasive prep manuevers (B+K, SEA, prep K) fast enough to deal with your average counter-attack ? --> since there is hesitation waiting for your 3rd hit of prep BBB (that is if u trained them to believe so)
 
So far abusing prep till they wise up seems best choice?

Why not just not hold b and try something like 33k;b or something like 8 A+B?

uneducated Raph player here.
 
i have a question. is it worth it to use prep against people with long range because by the time you get close enough to attack aren't you already being hit?
 
Against long range opponents, don't use Prep from range. Use it up close. Opposite for close-range opponents like Taki and...

I just found out the other day - Ivy has a i12 mid horizontal in her SW stance. So beware of that. It also stuns on counter. So be REAL careful of that.
 
is it a vert ? ..if it is gambling for a VE after prep transistion might do it ;)
 
No, it's horizontal. BUT.. I was mistaken and it's a high. So SEA works on it.

She has another move that looks really similar to it that is mid, but that one is i19. They're the moves where she spins around and throws an elbow. One is quick and high, the other is slow and mid. Sorry, got confused.
 
Has anyone found a way to get into SEB besides just hoping the opponent stands there and blocks? I'm thinking that one way to utilize this is against characters that can actually interrupt Prep A with high attacks. So just Prep and do nothing and let them put you into SEA and then enter SEB manually (actually I don't know if you have to enter SEA manually and then let them attack and have the auto evade from SEA put you into SEB, either way should work). But unless if it was a really long string of highs, you probably could've attacked from SEA instead...
 
Seems like SEA K and B dont TC that well. SEA A seems to TC the entire duration until it hits (doing basic testing against kilik's A+K).

For SEB .. why exactly would you want to go in ? SEB B does enormous combo damage (non CH needed) while doing good soul gauge damage..while SEB A is advantage on block ?
 
After playing Raph hard for a few weeks because I liked his style I have come to the realization that he is greatly lacking in a lot of areas especially prep. If only he had a horizontal mid out of prep that would help greatly but since he doesnt it means that all his options can be stepped or blocked and punished :(

He has a few favorable matchups but once someone knows his options or lack thereof and how to counter them it gets real frustrating

It's a wee bit slow, but you can go into VE from prep, and Raph's VE A is completely safe, if I remember correctly. Also, it gives you a free mixup with VE A+G_B+G if you're close enough.
 
It's a wee bit slow, but you can go into VE from prep, and Raph's VE A is completely safe, if I remember correctly. Also, it gives you a free mixup with VE A+G_B+G if you're close enough.

VE A isn't 'actually' safe 'on block' because the 2nd hit is a high. A fairly-trained opponent will use a fast TC'ing attack or crouch into a swift attack to hit you. However, you're fine if they block the 2nd hit; which I wouldn't count on happening at high level play.
 
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