Prep Shenanigans!! ^_^

VE A is not solid, the VE animation is too much of a tell for the A. The main option out of VE is throw which track step very well and are difficult to break, forcing some opponents to possibly duck for the mix up A. But using VE A as a safe set up will not work against anyone who plays against raph. His lack of consistent damaging options firmly places him in the low-mid tier, and I suggest raph players to take up backup characters simply to have more options available in order to learn the game better. But the challenge is always why come back to a character that you know has less options when you are free to choose from any? Especially when we're talking about solid high level play where raph becomes not nearly as competitive and playing to win becomes much more crucial.
 
Belial said:
VE wins against sidestep and VE A in particular against those trying to detect 2A allowing backthrow/launcher mixup.
SEA tracks to rafs right (opp left),
Prep BB, and prep A cannot be stepped on any starter hit, 44AB forces crouch on block.

You are completely wrong about everything else too, oh well.

*edit* - AB remark made me laugh
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What are those other terms. VE and SEA and a few others like FC and such.
 
subkons said:
What are those other terms. VE and SEA and a few others like FC and such.
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FC =full crouched

VE = raph only stance, press B+K

SEA = raph only stance, press 2 while prep, or do nothing during prep when the opponant hits you with a high
 
Hudathan said:
VE A is not solid, the VE animation is too much of a tell for the A. The main option out of VE is throw which track step very well and are difficult to break, forcing some opponents to possibly duck for the mix up A. But using VE A as a safe set up will not work against anyone who plays against raph. His lack of consistent damaging options firmly places him in the low-mid tier, and I suggest raph players to take up backup characters simply to have more options available in order to learn the game better. But the challenge is always why come back to a character that you know has less options when you are free to choose from any? Especially when we're talking about solid high level play where raph becomes not nearly as competitive and playing to win becomes much more crucial.
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i play tira too lol both crappy characters my algol has taken a back seat to tira
 
sigh i didnt' even know that prep CH BBB is guarantee'd (though the last jf B defiantely makes the move a bit safer though it's not guaranteed). I think it's because any time you'd get a CH prep BBB, you could have gotten a CH prep A (faster, mid) and thus more damage, but it seems like prep BB (the 2nd hit) seems to catch a bit of stepping better than prep A :) Learn something new everyday!
 
Hudathan said:
VE A is not solid, the VE animation is too much of a tell for the A. The main option out of VE is throw which track step very well and are difficult to break, forcing some opponents to possibly duck for the mix up A. But using VE A as a safe set up will not work against anyone who plays against raph. His lack of consistent damaging options firmly places him in the low-mid tier, and I suggest raph players to take up backup characters simply to have more options available in order to learn the game better. But the challenge is always why come back to a character that you know has less options when you are free to choose from any? Especially when we're talking about solid high level play where raph becomes not nearly as competitive and playing to win becomes much more crucial.
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That's unfortunately true .. the last tournament I was in, I had to switch to Kilik when the competition got rougher. Raphael doesn't necessarily cut it unless you're up against someone who can't step very well. Then Raphael becomes a higher tier in my opinion.
 
Raphael doesn't necessarily cut it unless you're up against someone who can't step very well. Then Raphael becomes a higher tier in my opinion.
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You can't say that "Raph is better if your opponent is worse", cause, well, obviously the game is easier if your opponent can't step...

the problem becomes, as Huda mentioned, why play Raph when other characters can do everything raph does well, much better?

Sure, it is cute to beat up on people online, or your scrubby friends, but we're talking about high level tournament play, where money is involved.

Now, I'm not saying that Raph is going to lose all the time, though it is an uphill battle, but when you play against people that can duck the second hit of VE A every time, and wail the crap out of you for it, you learn not to use it so much...the problem lies in the fact that much of Raph's moves are like this...

Crap damage, Crap frame advantage, Crap step-stopping

Now, I still use Raph in tournies (But then again, I am supposed to), and still pull a few wins (for old times' sake)...but I've also learned GOOD characters (I like Amy, personally) to win when it matters.

Anyway, this doesn't have much to do with Prep (except Prep - VE A) so I'll shut up, now

Str8 up fo' shizzle word, Like WOAH!
 
Sorry, I meant to say that Raph is decent against characters who can't step well.. but most of them aren't that good anyways.

The only one I can think of that doesn't step well is Voldo, and I've done pretty well against Voldo with Rahael considering how powerful Voldo is. I didn't mean bad players haha.
 
setting up a VE is already an immense achievement, making initial VE mixup pretty weak. If you can set it up properly that yes, it might be slightly unfavorable mixup for raph or even advantegeous, depending on how strong your opp FC punishment is. However if you enter VE from prep be prepared that people tend to interrupt that on reaction, meaning you might need to use VE B (though most of the time my VE B clashes with interrupts), or just a lot of prep and SEA just to make it harder to react to VE. thus, to me VE is just a convinient SSL technique.
 
Advanced Prep game and strategies

Raphael's way too awesome of a character(and Amy can kiss my ass) to not keep learning about, so I've been running into this problem lately.

Can't remember who said it, but some Raphael player here said that he "uses prep only 10% of the time", making it more surprising and effectively when it comes out.

This becomes very apparent when we face all the Taki's, Ivy's, X's, Amy's, Cassandra's....etc....those who beat prep pretty well, it can lead them to make quick but unsafe moves that can be blocked and punished accordingly.

Anyway, I'm curious what we're all doing as Raphael players to keep the pressure going.

44A(B) - I'm liking this more and more, on advantage I pull it out and maybe 30% of the time actually prep off of it(EASILY stepped after the A). When I do prep off it, I usually go SEA B/A, or Prep A to cut off WR crap.

3B - This one is just too good for me, Even though you SHOULDN'T go into prep all the time from this, I probably do it 80% of time at least. Obviously not for Taki's/Amy's etc but always good.

4B - Pretty much Counter only move, so you're usually going to prep off it.

44A+B, G - lol........vs tough players, I barely even use 44A+B.....unless I KNOW I can bait a whiff.

SEA B - BIG QUESTION HERE, I haven't ever really tried not going into prep off SEA B yet....is this a huge advantage window? Mid/throw mixup?

6BB - this one is rough for me, it's 2 linear highs to start out with, and without prep is like, more then -14 or more on block? 6BBB CAN help, even though it's ALSO punishable, but that and the instant Prep A off 6BB is a very predictable GI window. I'm having alot of problems with 6BB, though I know it's still his best punisher. How do you guys use it?

66B - so slow it's retarded, never.

Also, Prep VE isn't bad(alittle slow), but VE as a stand alone is a decent move regardless. Evades alot of verticals, and it's A and K options kill step. Even though VE A can get you punished hard, at range VE K is pretty difficult to punish allowing you to play it safe. With that knowledge, 2A, 22_88B, and iWR A, you have an effective, albiet not great anti step game.

Like Johnny 5 from Short Circuit said, give me MORE INPUT. I want to hear your strategies and such, I'm an AB and B, BB, 3B whore for example. I hope no one has the idea that leaking out their strategies will make their gameplay ineffective, because the only way that could be possible is if you're not constantly changing your attack patterns and move selection.
 
Advanced Prep game and strategies

SEA B at tip range (off a 3~SEAB ) has pushback like 33KB, so that makes the move safe from most characters..especially since you can also threaten with an elbow ..so it won't be punished much. However, if you do 6B~SEA B ..it'll leave the opponant close, which means a grab attempt would be worth considering . I've never done this...and now that i think about it i should... because once they they fear both a grab AND a prepA CH... you are back at neutral but in a VERY good position regardless of the actual frame disadvantage.
 
Advanced Prep game and strategies

BelovedChild said:
Can't remember who said it, but some Raphael player here said that he "uses prep only 10% of the time", making it more surprising and effectively when it comes out.
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merging this thread we already have a prep thread

please stop making a new thread for everything

it was me who doesnt use prep often

not because its surprising because its trash offline lol

and i play online with no online gimmicks

the B in 44AB tracks like hell

out of prep i usually go to VE or SEA

if you VE right as the prep transition starts VE comes out faster or it seems that way

i use VE more often but if they 2A me out of it ill prep K:K

i highly recommend 6BB prep its +11 on hit

SEA B prep is +2
 
I use Prep a lot, offline, against good players, who are very familiar with Raph - it works. You just have to be smart with it. Prep is the main part of my game...I probably use it 90% of the time. Prep Use pans out like this, usually:

Block something they do - punish + prep, usually 6B

From here you have to outplay your opp, Prep B is fast, safe on block, +11 on hit (hooray for looping). On block you are only at -3 in prep which means K will jump over i10, VE will step i12, A still hits at 16 (B again at 17), highs get SEAd. Looping SEA can be fun, Prep BB here covers 8WR sometimes and SEA K helps a bit (plus stun is fun).

I guess what I am really saying is that I like Prep B

Important informatino to know would be - how long does Prep last (in frames) until you can block again...
 
piggy said:
Important informatino to know would be - how long does Prep last (in frames) until you can block again...
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It looks like from a blocked 3 -> Empty Prep, Raph can be hit by anything i21 and lower, barring highs of course. Pretty surprising to me, 'cause I can barely recall getting hit whenever I went into empty Prep and I'm a big fan of empty Prep -> throw.
 
wow...21 frames of walking Prep seems like too many...thanks for checking that out for us!
 
SEA is +2 going back into prep ..which is his best prep entry. SEA B is something like -14 ..but since everyone expects the elbow.. I haven't used prep K to jump over 2As..as i normally try to trade CH with prepA since it'll probably score more damage.
 
good info guys, good info.

Angelic, does it really matter that I made a new thread about it? I just wanted extra attention damn it o_o. Everyone's complaining about dying boards and forums anyway.
 
WuHT said:
SEA is +2 going back into prep ..which is his best prep entry. SEA B is something like -14 ..but since everyone expects the elbow.. I haven't used prep K to jump over 2As..as i normally try to trade CH with prepA since it'll probably score more damage.
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100% agree with this - works great especially against AMY and other fast pokers who seem to think that they beat everything all the time (95% true).

It is important to realize, however, that even when you are at disadvantage while in prep (Prep B for instance) you still have options to control the game...you just have to think and be a step ahead.
 
BelovedChild said:
good info guys, good info.

Angelic, does it really matter that I made a new thread about it? I just wanted extra attention damn it o_o. Everyone's complaining about dying boards and forums anyway.
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yeah it matters

cause im supposed to keep it all neat and ish

we dont need 2 prep threads

if you just make a new post it will show there is new stuff
 
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