Pyrrha matchup

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[11] Champion
I decided to test a few things with the idea of making some sort of "Pyrrha Must Die" video, only starring Nightmare instead of Maxi.

Spent a little bit in training mode to test out my initial theories and found that things aren't as dire as they seem.

First up, 11aa. Everyone hates it. Well, guess what. Nightmare never has to deal with this, as long as he can block the 11a. After blocked 11a Nightmare can nss transition and 11aa will whiff completely, giving him free nss a+b, 2a+b (if you try to back step normally then the second a will ch, which is why nss transition is needed). If Pyrrha charges then it doesn't matter. Nightmare can either back up and get his nss a+b, 2a+b anyway, or just interrupt with nss a+b, 2a+b and get ch damage. And the interrupt timing is basically the same timing for punishing 11aa on whiff, so it's not even difficult.

Next, 66b BE. As most of you know by now this move is pure gimmicks outside of combos. Eventually everyone will figure it out. After blocking 66b you can quick step the BE every single time. It takes a tiny bit of practice to get the timing down, since 66b forces crouch, but after that it's easy. If Nightmare steps to his left then he gets free a back throw. If he steps to his right then he gets a free side throw.

This is also a case where jg is your least viable option. Because the second hit of 66b BE is a guard crush your jg will get you minimal advantage, netting you only 4k/6k. You can 4k BE, but a more reliable and damaging meter alternative would be to simply GI the 2nd hit and 3(b), b:a. You can also CE between the hits, but that's overkill unless it'll win you the round.

Most are it comes.
 
I hope this isn't the last post on this page...Okay I got some shit for you guys against pyrrha.

Stuff on block.

You can counter pyrrha's 66BBE second hit with 22AA/88B/22K/11B and all that jazz
You can do a similar thing to the second hit of her 4AB, but she can mix it up with 4AAA. The second hit sweeps low. of course you can step both options and still be able to jump to avoid the sweep.
You can counter her 11AA second hit with NSS it backdashes the second hit.

You can also counter her 236ABE's second hit with a backdash not NSS. You could 8K but backdash gives you better whiff punishment damage.

You can also counter her 2BB B+KB FC3BB with the same 22B,22AA, 22K, 11B stuff figure out which side is more effective. However you can also punish this string with 4KBE:B.

I post here for a head start...now go out there and be some body.
 
KingAce said:
I hope this isn't the last post on this page...Okay I got some shit for you guys against pyrrha.

Stuff on block.

You can counter pyrrha's 66BE second hit with 22AA/88B/22K/11B and all that jazz
You can do a similar thing to the second hit of her 4AB, but she can mix it up with 4AAA. The second hit sweeps low. of course you can step both options and still be able to jump to avoid the sweep.
You can counter her 11AA second hit with NSS it backdashes the second hit.

You can also counter her 236ABE's second hit with a backdash not NSS. You could 8K but backdash gives you better whiff punishment damage.

You can also counter her 2BB B+KB FC3BB with the same 22B,22AA, 22K, 11B stuff figure out which side is more effective. However you can also punish this string with 4KBE:B.

I post here for a head start...now go out there and be some body.
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Nice ACE, i found that thing of the 66B BE a week ago, it works 77B when Nightmare is on 1P side and 11B when in 2P side, it should be done fast or she could block that, and for her 236A BE i found that NM can evade the 3rd hit with his B+K stance but didnt know 2hit can be back stepped thats a pretty nice stuff man.
 
Well it's several days later. Now I work on whiff punishing with NM's CE. For example Xiba's 6BBB. Stepping the second hit and delivering him to Allah.
 
@KingAce: Hmmm... that makes me want to go looking for other strings where that works. The CE might be slow, but it hits like a ton of bricks if you can get it to connect.
 
KingAce said:
Well it's several days later. Now I work on whiff punishing with NM's CE. For example Xiba's 6BBB. Stepping the second hit and delivering him to Allah.
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I think Maxi will be very vulnerable CE whiff punishing during his stance transitions. You could UB punish 66A+B (I think that was the move) on step with Nightmare's 4A+B in SC4 so i presume that you can CE punish it in SC5 as well :D
 
page said:
I decided to test a few things with the idea of making some sort of "Pyrrha Must Die" video, only starring Nightmare instead of Maxi.

Spent a little bit in training mode to test out my initial theories and found that things aren't as dire as they seem.

First up, 11aa. Everyone hates it. Well, guess what. Nightmare never has to deal with this, as long as he can block the 11a. After blocked 11a Nightmare can nss transition and 11aa will whiff completely, giving him free nss a+b, 2a+b (if you try to back step normally then the second a will ch, which is why nss transition is needed). If Pyrrha charges then it doesn't matter. Nightmare can either back up and get his nss a+b, 2a+b anyway, or just interrupt with nss a+b, 2a+b and get ch damage. And the interrupt timing is basically the same timing for punishing 11aa on whiff, so it's not even difficult.

Next, 66b BE. As most of you know by now this move is pure gimmicks outside of combos. Eventually everyone will figure it out. After blocking 66b you can quick step the BE every single time. It takes a tiny bit of practice to get the timing down, since 66b forces crouch, but after that it's easy. If Nightmare steps to his left then he gets free a back throw. If he steps to his right then he gets a free side throw.

This is also a case where jg is your least viable option. Because the second hit of 66b BE is a guard crush your jg will get you minimal advantage, netting you only 4k/6k. You can 4k BE, but a more reliable and damaging meter alternative would be to simply GI the 2nd hit and 3(b), b:a. You can also CE between the hits, but that's overkill unless it'll win you the round.

Most are it comes.
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about her 66Bi think i tested that before (Just Guarding second hit of her 66B BE and tried to punish with 4K BE, and if im not wrong or if wasnt a mistake of my part doing 4K, i think she was able to block NM's 4K there, not sure, but i think i tested that.... if that is the case then the better option there is to step that or GI the second hit or CE the 2nd for an easy guarantee damage.
 
Vlaster said:
about her 66Bi think i tested that before (Just Guarding second hit of her 66B BE and tried to punish with 4K BE, and if im not wrong or if wasnt a mistake of my part doing 4K, i think she was able to block NM's 4K there, not sure, but i think i tested that.... if that is the case then the better option there is to step that or GI the second hit or CE the 2nd for an easy guarantee damage.
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The most I could get after the JG was 6K/3K/6A. 4K seems to be too slow, but with the frames you get, you should be able to force a throw mix up at least.
 
Why bother? You can GI for guaranteed 3b or just step for guaranteed back throws. Both options are easier and do more damage.
 
It works on some things.

Problem is that 66b BE is a guard crush, which means that it's already +100 frames for Pyrrha. When you just guard it that +100 only gets reduced by so much. That's why I believe that GI will still have a use for characters like Nightmare who don't have reliable damage under ~i20. If you jg you get fuck all, but if you GI you get at least 75 damage.

Although aga is supposed to be i15 or i16, which can't be much slower than 4k.
 
Guys..just sidestep Pyra between 66b BE and do 3b b:a. It does more damage than a backthrow. In reference to her 1aa. Thats 3b punishable.. No point in going into NSS.
 
i stumbled over here from the pyrrah forums since i couldnt help but feel liek every time i face a NM in ranked its like getting the 1up mushroom in mario

uve done a good job so far outlining how to beat nubbie scrub pyrrahs who rely on bad moves (ie 1AA 66B BE) now what do u do against a pyrrah who doesnt use punishable moves, can see all ur slow lows, breaks throws consistently, and turtles n waits for u to to do an unsafe move, and has stab locked and loaded at all times?

i personally feel this matchup is very unfavorable for NM, and against a patient, safe pyrrah is unwinnable unless he can continually guess the throw right
 
banes49 said:
i stumbled over here from the pyrrah forums since i couldnt help but feel liek every time i face a NM in ranked its like getting the 1up mushroom in mario

uve done a good job so far outlining how to beat nubbie scrub pyrrahs who rely on bad moves (ie 1AA 66B BE) now what do u do against a pyrrah who doesnt use punishable moves, can see all ur slow lows, breaks throws consistently, and turtles n waits for u to to do an unsafe move, and has stab locked and loaded at all times?

i personally feel this matchup is very unfavorable for NM, and against a patient, safe pyrrah is unwinnable unless he can continually guess the throw right
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Nah its an even match-up imo. Ill just crack your gauge with my safe mid guard crushers. Turtle up some more. Please do.

Flapjack, 2B+K BE, max range 1A, max range 1B and 1K spam all will make you duck low in a hurry. It is a very winnable match-up, very winnable. Omega Pyrrha IMO is a much tougher match-up for Nightmare, but apparently other people think it is actually not that bad.
 
Engared said:
snip.
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i think the guard crash angle is interesting one i hadnt gone up against, but i disagree with the rest, flapjack is still just a throw and i can still guess right to break it, 1K does NOT make me block low, I would sooner eat 20 1K than one mid launcher from NM, there is no sense in ducking to avoid a 1K, and I would like to see u try to consistently keep me at max range 1A

personally i still dont think guard crush is enough, guard crush doesnt win games, it wins rounds, u arent going to guard crash me every round, and if u do its 50%, still not a guaranteed win, but i dont know how bad his guard crush game can be, tbh

I am very willing to test out your theory though, my psn is also banes49 if u want to add me
 
banes49 said:
i think the guard crash angle is interesting one i hadnt gone up against, but i disagree with the rest, flapjack is still just a throw and i can still guess right to break it, 1K does NOT make me block low, I would sooner eat 20 1K than one mid launcher from NM, there is no sense in ducking to avoid a 1K, and I would like to see u try to consistently keep me at max range 1A

personally i still dont think guard crush is enough, guard crush doesnt win games, it wins rounds, u arent going to guard crash me every round, and if u do its 50%, still not a guaranteed win, but i dont know how bad his guard crush game can be, tbh

I am very willing to test out your theory though, my psn is also banes49 if u want to add me
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Oh it works and i most probably play against better pyrrhas that you. Everytime you whiff as well you're going for a ride too. Everytime you step im going to be putting pressure on you. Everytime you recover from a KD you are going to get pressured. If you have not experienced this, you have not played against a good Nightmare.

Pyrrha's stab whiffs against a lot of Nightmare's move set on block punish as well at many ranges so if you dont know that, the Pyrrhas I play against are better than you. Nightmare's crush game is good enough to get a guard crush in every single round if he plays against a very turtley character too btw. Its difficult but very possible. It has almost happened to me. And pyrrha is linear. The nature of Pyrrha it seems as well is she has to take risks in order to do reasonably decent damage.

I play from Singapore so unless you want to experience 1 bar madness, you are going to have to fight DIME or Tiamat or one of the good American Nightmares, to see what i mean.
 
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