Pyrrha vs. Ivy/Sieg/Mitsu

[Mandy]

Probably due more to me being terrible than anything.

Ivy: How do you deal with the ranging and mix-ups?

Sieg: See above.

Mitsu: It feels like his range is just Pyrrha+. Sure he doesn't punish nearly as well, but all of his pokes feel just as good as mine, and his launchers and mix-ups all feel as good as mine. So much of his stuff seems to track and it really makes it difficult to get in when I eat his one horizontal.

 

[Fei]

Vs Ivy :
You want to stay close close range. You're looking for one of two conditions, either: Pressure with 2A, 2K. (You need one of these to hit to begin pressure, since Ivy's like 236B, which is a stepping tech crouch move.) Or you need a blocked 2A+B or 236B. When either of those happen you can start your aggro, throw, low, 66A, whatever it is you that you like starting aggression with.

Watch when she has meter, her BE has nutty on block properties. During this time, you mostly want to back step and bait the short range BE, or pray that your 2A's interrupt it.

Ivy doesn't actually do much dmg at mid or long range, she does most of her dmg when you press buttons that you shouldn't or guesses right about properties of moves you're using.

Vs Sieg:
Start the round off running at him (prolly don't 66A, just run up and block). If he holds block 6BK or 1K; then 2A observe and begin aggro of choice.

3B stance KK, duck the second K and stab him.
3B anything else, stab him.
66B stab him.
22B stab him, 22B stance kk, duck second K, stab him.
66A duck and stab him.

His back to rings edge, break B, stay standing. BB's will ruin him here.

Vs Mitsu:
Don't wiff vs Mitsu. Instead, run straight in and hold block to see some of his habits and movelist. Again, if they pause, 6BK or 1K and begin doing your stuff. Mitsu's don't like it when you do this so watch for 4B, 236AA will stuff him as he comes back. If you're forced to be in mid range, permanently be stepping or 8wayrunning, all meaningful moves at this range are linear from him. The step killers outside of 44A do meaningless dmg and 44A can be blocked on reaction.

3B stab him.
2K stab him. 2KB stab him. If he 2kb's stab on reaction to getting hit by either, doesn't matter. Since 2KB is natural combo, the B is guaranteed anyways, so you don't want to chance him stopping at just 2K, try punishing 2KB with stab at both steps of the move.
1A block and stab him.
1AB stab him while he spins and acts stupid.
33B~B step second B, chase, 66A (you can try stab but sometimes you're off axis).

66A+B ~ this is -2 on block, it's linear, but feels like it tracks >.> Block it and 2A to see what they do, if they tend to be aggro'y you can stab the next time he tries 66A+B else it's a good chance to throw or low.
6B_variations ~ They're annoying and good. Be in step mode or 8wayrun more to reduce their effect.
4KB - You must learn to A+B gi or step the second hit.

~Fei

 

[andur]

Pyrrha VS Sieg is massively in your favor. If you block nearly any of his mixups (or a lot of his regular moves, look at his frame data), you get a free 236B:4 in punishment. You'll want to play around a bit with him yourself to figure out what moves transition into what stances. If you block his 3{B}, do a 22K immediately, it will dodge and punish all of chief hold (If you just guard it, go straight for a 236B). He can't punish you hard either until you start reaching like -18 or something (sure you can be kicked and such, but, so what?).
Just be patient, keep your distance yourself. He'll have to approach you, and when he does, you're faster than him. And if you can bait out a whiff from him, then you can run up and get right into his face where he doesn't want you.

 

[Fei]

If you block his 3{B}, do a 22K immediately, it will dodge and punish all of chief hold (If you just guard it, go straight for a 236B).

I love it.

~Fei

 

[Synraii]

Pyrrha does All Alexandras since time began deal double damage to Siegfried ~_~

 

[Mandy]

Vs Ivy :
You want to stay close close range. You're looking for one of two conditions, either: Pressure with 2A, 2K. (You need one of these to hit to begin pressure, since Ivy's like 236B, which is a stepping tech crouch move.) Or you need a blocked 2A+B or 236B. When either of those happen you can start your aggro, throw, low, 66A, whatever it is you that you like starting aggression with.

This just seems confusing to me. Why would I pressure with 2A or 2K as opposed to 1K or 6BK? I understand that I can't utilize BB too much simply because Ivy's 214B wrecks me whenever I attempt that, or a few of my other horizontals. It's just hard for me to get that pressure at the distance I need when my BnB like BB gets evaded and punished by 214B. I can understand using 66A since it's a horizontal, but everything else I'm lost on.

66B becomes virtually useless due to Ivy controlling spacing as well (unless she whiffs a ranged attack in which it becomes the gap closer).

I'll see if I can get some videos up of me playing for C&C.

 

[iKotomi]

2A is safe, fast, and gives frame advantage on hit. 2K is more reliable against step, and is fast.

1K doesn't really serve the same purpose, other than being a poke.

 

[Neo_Remirez]

Honestly if you want to win against those 3, ANYTIME you sense a vertical, you got B+K which will dodge and gives you a nice stab, anytime a high is coming, 236B and stab. they are turtling? run up and bA+G or just bG and punish the unsafe hit they might try on you. Pyrrha punishing with 236B:4 is one of the best things in the game, most people with they had a go-to move like that.


That VS ivy advice is bad though, Ivy side steps with 3B, watch out for 2A+B on counter hit because they can follow it with 6B8(BE)

 

[Fei]

This just seems confusing to me. Why would I pressure with 2A or 2K as opposed to 1K or 6BK? I understand that I can't utilize BB too much simply because Ivy's 214B wrecks me whenever I attempt that, or a few of my other horizontals. It's just hard for me to get that pressure at the distance I need when my BnB like BB gets evaded and punished by 214B. I can understand using 66A since it's a horizontal, but everything else I'm lost on.

66B becomes virtually useless due to Ivy controlling spacing as well (unless she whiffs a ranged attack in which it becomes the gap closer).

I'll see if I can get some videos up of me playing for C&C.

1K works fine, I just mechanically say 2A 2K. 6BK might get evaded by Ivy, so maybe not so much that. BB is too fast for the Ivy player to 236B as a response. This means that the Ivy player is already expecting the BB and is likely tossing 214B early, so equally so, you should just be a bit more passive and wait to stab her once you block 214B. Other than 3B (which is a safe stepping launcher from Ivy), she has no meaningful damage if you stand perfectly still (assuming you're breaking A).

66B is still very good vs Ivy, just use it more on wakeup. When you get a knockdown, toss it out, if she likes to roll around, just run at her for a moment until she's ready to stop rolling and force her to eat it or block, or running K mixup (it's harder to recognize than you might argue, since both moves hop a little at the start).

66A is great vs Ivy most all of the time. If you're afraid of running into stuff, test the waters first by just pretending to 66A, ie, just run up to her face and block. See how she responds. If she does nothing, you can run throw or run 1k her. If she does slow stuff, do more 66A's, if she does faster stuff, just block and press your advantage.

I would also suggest using 3KK (the double knees), the second hit is punishible on block, but not by anything dangerous from Ivy, when you land the counterhit, it's still a okish damage.

Also, her hop stab is stab punishable by you. So if your abuse of 1A 1K 2K has forced the Ivy to toss out random 9B's, block and stab.

~Fei

 

[Pyrrus]

Sankyoo everyone above 8'D this really helps against Siggy and his giant dick looking sword 8D xD

 

[Solo]

Safefried is fun. >:D

On topic: I would honestly say you should put the pressure on him and force him to open up. Mix in throws and all the like, and don't forget to stab him for his unsafe moves. Lol

 

[Heaton]

Ramon and I are the only ones that think Siegfried VS Pyrrha is more around 5:5 / 6:4. lol.

Siegfried can play keepout on her pretty well, and the amount of unsafe stuff he can throw at her without fear of punishment is actually pretty high for someone with a sword and shield. Pyrrha's stab range is so short that it makes her mother roll in her grave. To punish stuff like 66A+B, 22B, or 66B from tip range consistently, she has to burn meter on a CE. Granted, I don't see a lot of Pyrrha use meter on much else, aside maybe from post GB half life combos, but it means the capability isn't there for the entire match. Basically, heavy punishment only happens when Pyrrha gets through Siegfried's spacing. Not impossible, but a lot of Siegfried's moves push back out, and the match becomes a fight over spacing.

Pyrrha also has some pretty weak anti-step, especially at Siegfried's favored range. Generally all she has there is 66A - a good move, but when that's all you have you're basically asking Siegfried to go into SBH and hit you for half life. You have to be smart about when you use it because using it at the wrong time is going to hurt you badly, even without meter.

That's pretty much the gist of it. At close range, it's Pyrrha's match until he pushes her back out. At far range, it's Siegfried's match until she closes the gap. Under most circumstances, though, Siegfried's damage output makes getting all the hits that Pyrrha can vitally important, and missing even one stab can end up costing you the round, or the match.

Oh, and I'm sure everyone knows this by now, but don't throw out 66b(BE) on block. All Siegfried has to do is 66B.

 

[Solo]

Ramon and I are the only ones that think Siegfried VS Pyrrha is more around 5:5 / 6:4. lol.
I agree. I find this match up much better than the Omega one.
Siegfried can play keepout on her pretty well, and the amount of unsafe stuff he can throw at her without fear of punishment is actually pretty high for someone with a sword and shield. Pyrrha's stab range is so short that it makes her mother roll in her grave. To punish stuff like 66A+B, 22B, or 66B from tip range consistently, she has to burn meter on a CE. Granted, I don't see a lot of Pyrrha use meter on much else, aside maybe from post GB half life combos, but it means the capability isn't there for the entire match. Basically, heavy punishment only happens when Pyrrha gets through Siegfried's spacing. Not impossible, but a lot of Siegfried's moves push back out, and the match becomes a fight over spacing.
I'll have to try that.
Pyrrha also has some pretty weak anti-step, especially at Siegfried's favored range. Generally all she has there is 66A - a good move, but when that's all you have you're basically asking Siegfried to go into SBH and hit you for half life. You have to be smart about when you use it because using it at the wrong time is going to hurt you badly, even without meter.
Thanks for asking PS to fix SBH. :D
That's pretty much the gist of it. At close range, it's Pyrrha's match until he pushes her back out. At far range, it's Siegfried's match until she closes the gap. Under most circumstances, though, Siegfried's damage output makes getting all the hits that Pyrrha can vitally important, and missing even one stab can end up costing you the round, or the match.
Just for every Pyrrha player reading this. A blocked or whiffed stab means an 80 damage combo from Siegfried if he has meter (which he always will).
Oh, and I'm sure everyone knows this by now, but don't throw out 66b(BE) on block. All Siegfried has to do is 66B.
Interesting, I actually didn't know that. I'll have to try that out. >:D

 

[Heaton]

Just for every Pyrrha player reading this. A blocked or whiffed stab means an 80 damage combo from Siegfried if he has meter (which he always will).

Possibly more, too, if there's a wall involved, and how you tech determines what you might end up eating as part of his okizeme.

Interesting, I actually didn't know that. I'll have to try that out. >:D

You have to buffer it really, really fast, but if they're throwing it out as guard pressure, it's like you just KNOW when they're going to use it. You'll probably want to use this instead of JG to beat it, because it's only -17 on JG. It's like they specifically didn't want Siegfried to 3(B) punish it, or something...you can also use JG ~ 66k(BE) if there are walls around, but 66B is the easy, no-effort solution.

 

[Sett]

236K


Where's your god now???

 

[Solo]

236K


Where's your god now???

He's busy interrupting your AS K with a 3B. Or just waiting to punish your move that's -27 on block. >:D

 

[Heaton]

236K

Where's your god now???

Watching you whiff full speed aerial flips and get stabbed for it. You know you fucked up when Siegfried can stab you. But seriously, there are some situations where the only thing she can do is CE, and that allows Siegfried a certain degree of freedom in throwing things out to pressure her guard gauge.

If you block nearly any of his mixups (or a lot of his regular moves, look at his frame data), you get a free 236B:4 in punishment.

This is correct on paper, but spacing plays a huge part in what you can punish. CE is the only thing Pyrrha has that can punish absolutely everything at all ranges.

You'll want to play around a bit with him yourself to figure out what moves transition into what stances.

I say this to everyone who legitimately wants to learn good anti-Siegfried. Learn what stance is which, and what each option from stance does. And don't assume that just because you've run through it and can remember that SCH means Chief Hold that you know how to anti his stances perfectly. Things like spacing and roulette can screw with your counterattacks in ways that you might not even see coming depending on how much or how little time you spent in the lab.

If you block his 3{B}, do a 22K immediately, it will dodge and punish all of chief hold (If you just guard it, go straight for a 236B).

This is wrong. If you do 66K, Siegfried can do a few things.

He can SCH G, and block 22K in time.
He can do SCH 6 ~ SCH k(BE), launch you, combo you into a wall or the abyss, etc;
He can do SCH B+K ~ SCH B, launch you, combo you for a shitload of life, into a wall, or the abyss, etc;
He can do SCH 4B+K if spaced PERFECTLY, and then do SSH BBB for 80 or so damage.

The only thing that kills SCH completely is Cervantes aB at close range, or the multitude of CEs that beat out SCH K. 22K is a good move, and great if you think he'll just do the normal mix-up, but guessing wrong can be extremely costly. It's not a kill-all option to the stance - don't make the mistake of thinking it is.

He can't punish you hard either until you start reaching like -18 or something (sure you can be kicked and such, but, so what?).

66k(BE) is i15 and can hurt very, very badly depending again on walls, clean hits, and meter. Not to mention that Siegfried at plus frames is never a good thing for you.

Just be patient, keep your distance yourself. He'll have to approach you, and when he does, you're faster than him. And if you can bait out a whiff from him, then you can run up and get right into his face where he doesn't want you.

This advice doesn't make much sense to me. Siegfried plays his worst when Pyrrha is right up in his face, where his spacing dependent frames mean nothing, and his arsenal slow, powerful moves get him killed. He moves just as fast as any other character, and he can keep you at bay very easily with moves like agA and B6. Stepping back and mainting space between him is essentially putting the ball in his court. And of course, baiting any character to whiff will let you do anything you want - it's not unique to Siegfried, but Siegfried's numerous issues with whiffing have made a lot of Siegfried players very cautious about when and where they use certain moves.

Vs Sieg:
Start the round off running at him (prolly don't 66A, just run up and block). If he holds block 6BK or 1K; then 2A observe and begin aggro of choice.

3B stance KK, duck the second K and stab him.

3B anything else, stab him.

Something to realize about SCH is that you have to ready what he's going to do - if you guess wrong, you're eating heavy damage and are in a horrible position. SCH is not really something he can react to. Also, SCH B is + on block, so stop doing stupid stuff after blocking it.

66B stab him.

As I've said earlier, you absolutely can't at a certain range.

22B stab him, 22B stance kk, duck second K, stab him.

As I've said, not stabbable from a certain range, and you make a huge gamble if you try to interrupt it.

66A duck and stab him.

No Siegfried worth his zweihander will throw this out on block, but make sure you know what it looks like so you don't get hit by "that flashy slow ass high."

His back to rings edge, break B, stay standing. BB's will ruin him here.

I have never been ruined by BB when my back was to the edge. If anything, you're asking to be stepped and 1B'd into the abyss.

And for those of you wondering where I get off telling you that your character doesn't beat mine 9:1, a little backstory: the only people I have played consistently since launch are Partisan, Ramon, and Xeph. For those of you who aren't familiar with them, Partisan and Ramon combine to play every fucking Greek in the most obnoxious way possible, and when Xeph doesn't play Astaroth or Natsu, he's trolling me with a Greek. All of my playtime since launch has been against nothing but fucking Greeks. So I'm pretty sure I know the match-up fairly well. I've got some videos up in the Siegfried SA, so if you'd like to see some of how the match-up is played, go check there. I'll have some more recent ones up soon.

I do invite anyone who finds my views to be unorthodox or "wrong" to play me on PSN. Just drop me an invite some time and I'll be sure to get some games in with you.

 

[MntT77]

236K


Where's your god now???

People actually use that move? :O

 

[andur]

<snip> Bit about 3{B} on block
This is wrong. If you do 22K, Siegfried can do a few things.

He can SCH G, and block 22K in time.
He can do SCH 6 ~ SCH k(BE), launch you, combo you into a wall or the abyss, etc;
He can do SCH B+K ~ SCH B, launch you, combo you for a shitload of life, into a wall, or the abyss, etc;
He can do SCH 4B+K if spaced PERFECTLY, and then do SSH BBB for 80 or so damage.

The only thing that kills SCH completely is Cervantes aB at close range, or the multitude of CEs that beat out SCH K. 22K is a good move, and great if you think he'll just do the normal mix-up, but guessing wrong can be extremely costly. It's not a kill-all option to the stance - don't make the mistake of thinking it is.

Yeah, I should have noted that 22K only beats the SCH attacks. 22B works wonders too against Sieg's who always just do a SCH attack.

<snip> Bit about keeping Sieg at range

This advice doesn't make much sense to me. Siegfried plays his worst when Pyrrha is right up in his face, where his spacing dependent frames mean nothing, and his arsenal slow, powerful moves get him killed. He moves just as fast as any other character, and he can keep you at bay very easily with moves like agA and B6. Stepping back and mainting space between him is essentially putting the ball in his court. And of course, baiting any character to whiff will let you do anything you want - it's not unique to Siegfried, but Siegfried's numerous issues with whiffing have made a lot of Siegfried players very cautious about when and where they use certain moves.

True, if you are up close to Sieg that's exactly where you want to be as Pyrrha. I find getting up close to be the tricky part, and generally involves waiting on a mistake from the Siegfried player.

All my comments are from fairly soon after the game's release. I have a vastly different opinion on this matchup now. Previously, I pegged it in Pyrrha's favor, I'd say now its more or less even. A bad Siegfried that doesn't space you right is still a free win, but, shrug, that's true for any character not playing properly.

 

[Djangoknight]

pssst siegfried 3A is -14 but -13 at range if try to stab u get 3(B) in the face, but you can always us CE there.