Raphael General Discussion / Q&A

Any one wanna come up with creative uses for 6B+K?

I haven't checked it yet but it may be a fairly low risk way to open rounds vs. people with a forward mobility attack like Natty spinning bird kick. Could be a total dead end I'm not sure yet.
 
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I just use it as a poke of guard damage here and there but that's it. I've still need to post more punishment data in here for Raph BTW keep on forgetting about it.
 
Real_Bojack said:
Any one wanna come up with creative uses for 6B+K?

I haven't checked it yet but it may be a fairly low risk way to open rounds vs. people with a forward mobility attack like Natty spinning bird kick. Could be a total dead end I'm not sure yet.
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So, looking at the data Bojack, it looks like 6B+K is safe, gives minor advantage on hit, CH stun, and break guard in 14 which is pretty decent. So perhaps put it in situations where you can score some easy guard meter damage (perhaps early in the match so you can pressure later). You should explore if 6B+K CH knock downs can give you convenient places to land 66B+K for guard meter............... maybe.
 
Nothing is guaranteed. It's one of the few Raph attacks don't really move him forward (like A+B) so if you could force your opponent to whiff, sometimes you can fit in a 6B+K and not get counterhited yourself despite the negative frames. Try it out against seigfriend's 3(B) series on block and see how comfortable that is. Otherwise i've rarely used it, as it seems more to me a momentum killer.
 
WuHT said:
Nothing is guaranteed. It's one of the few Raph attacks don't really move him forward (like A+B) so if you could force your opponent to whiff, sometimes you can fit in a 6B+K and not get counterhited yourself despite the negative frames. Try it out against seigfriend's 3(B) series on block and see how comfortable that is. Otherwise i've rarely used it, as it seems more to me a momentum killer.
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I'm sort of ditching it already because the range seems so........ random? I've had people almost on Raph's shoes and 6B+K misses, other times it hits a mile away. I'm basically ditching it in lieu of 3K and 4K.

4K is giving me excellent interrupts and the range is very deceptive and it seems to hit step to an extent and it gives good frames on both hit and block. I know K is faster by 1f but it's worse on contact. I dunno, I'm trying all kinds a new shit to prep for CEO, also trying 9K and then baiting shit with their forced crouch on block too and training myself to 9K slow lows instead of blocking too.
 
4k: Agree with you on all the positives. Just kinda put it off to the side because personally I don't like using Raph's kicks that much (personal preference). If you think about it, Raph up close with 2K, 3A, 2A, 4K, WR B, FC3B, 8A+B, 66A+G, 6BB BE and even 44B makes him very formidable even if Raph starts to disrespect opponent's frames.

Here's a personal tip bojack: After having your wrA blocked, see how many 6BB BE you can score on CH. Being only -4 on block plus huge push back generally makes the opponent do dumb non-TC things.
 
Some notes on dealing with common 2As of opponents:
Seems to tech crouch at the 10th frame, so anything that puts you at +4, you can score a CH with 3(B) combo or even CH with 6BB BE (such as post 66A and wrB on hit)

Some post 2K study (Raph at -2) against opponent's 2A response
Some of the things I test for is the range where Raph's wrB would dodge it and where 4A+B would trigger
1) Viola's 2A has really shut down wrB at most ranges (I suspect its due to how "low" the hitbox is to the ground") However, it totally lacks tracking (at all ranges) as long as raph steps or quick steps to his right (22 command, do not do 33). You can easily score a 22B but you must wait for her 2A to complete or you'll get CH yourself. The timing is tighter than expected (she seems to have very low whiff frames) and you could also attempt 223KBE as well.
2) Pyrrah's 2A also has better range (can knick raph doing wrB at most ranges) and is highly vulnerable to Raph stepping to his left (88 command)
3) Leixia's 2A is can be evaded at point blank with Raph's own wrB lol. Also, stepping to Raph's left (22 command) also completely dodges it, and the timing is very forgiving to score a B.
4) Maxi's 2A is very good, cannot be stepped at all and can stop Raph's wrB at ranges almost as good as pyrrha or viola
5) Mitsu's 2A tracks like Maxi's (very good both direction) but his point blank range is terrible and wrB will completely dodge it and knock him down like Leixia
6) Gloomy Tira's 2A is really good like Maxis at tracking and only tip range 2K~wrB can work against her.
7) Patroklos 2A: stops step on both sides reliably, range is a little better than Mitsu/Leixia
8) Ivy's 2A has average range, but be careful how she stands since her hurt box for her legs seem to magically disappear at ranges when you think you can chip her with a 2K. However, its very easy to step left (88 command) and score a 22B~6(dash forward)~A+BA combo for an easy 62 damage. 4A+B has to be really close to connect as her 2A seems to go "under" the glowing green aGI fist of raph.
8) Raph's own 2A stops step both directions, but has pretty piss range, and the range is most similar to Patroklos (where wrB will work at almost every range).

Purpose of this was to figure out how to deal with common panic buttons which Raph should work hard at poking and making the opponent uncomfortable to score damage with good low-risk reads in situations where the opponent generally think they're safe.
 
WuHT said:
Here's a personal tip bojack: After having your wrA blocked, see how many 6BB BE you can score on CH. Being only -4 on block plus huge push back generally makes the opponent do dumb non-TC things.
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That is a good idea.

Yeah I'm trying to get serious about the game for CEO this summer and utilizing things that are "decent" on block -3~6 or so range to bait out jG is a big goal for me. I've gotten a HEAP of mileage out of 4K because it seems to decent job of catching step, so it's a decent range i14 step kill that has easy input, no 8wr buffer issues and has great frames all things considered means that you can throw a 4K and if it hits do all kindsa junk after. I do need to test how well they can step after it too. Heh, just realized I think I've repeated myself like 3 times in a row about 4K now. I was using it in SC2 HDO the other night (when it was 6K) and getting great mileage out of it there too.

I'm bringing lots of new ideas to my own table to prepare, I'm sure most of it will be shit that's been gone over here before but I may still babble about it anyways just cuz.
 
As someone who has placed top 8 in every offline tournament I've been to with Raphael, I'm willing to answer any questions you guys might have about him.
 
This seems very dead. So I feel like add something. Raph RO game is one of the worst in the game, so this can be useful for someone. His A+G throw can get a very good RO to the right side.
 
There's a certain angle where both B and A grab with ringout, you should implement that into your game.
Should be common knowledge by now but we should strive to help all Raph players
 
The dead-ness of this forum scares me.

I am officially instating myself as the worlds best Raphael. Unless 3+ replies that dispute this happen by Sunday - It will be an 8wayrun fact and the general consensus of the masses.
 
u guys contributing to Raphael over at SC:LS ? I failed to unlock him and im' tempted to just outright purchase him if there is an option to

and zanaken, you're always number 1 in our hearts. That is not even up for dispute !
 
You sure like to boast Zanaken but I believe you do know the character and I wonder if you have any tips on the MU vs Nightmare. I'm not talking about how to punish this or that move but let's say general advice. What's the most reliable way to face an aggressive Night.

Also I tried to B+K Night's BE ( the earthquake attack you mentioned in an older post ) and couldn't figure out how it supposedly stops it. What did you mean ?
 
NM? Dude, like, 4B.

If he moves, 4B; if he enters a stance, 4B; if he so much as looks at you funny, 4B.

If he tries to kill your Prep, Prep 4 will kill his Prep-kill, but he might start mixing it up. I would favour Raphael in the match-up without much hesitation, seeing as NM has no true Prep kill and suffers to TC moves.

I meant the earthquake itself, not the whole move that contains it. You have to be at a range where only the quake will hit you. I haven't tried it on that specific move because most NMs do it on wake-up, where you will be too close.

As an aggressive player I actually struggle more vs turtles, so if he consistently decides to get in my face I will mostly focus on grabs and TC moves. At normal range your friends are the traditional (at least for me,) 66A 236B 66B and SE A.

On the subject of SE A, this move is amazing and totally undervalued by even myself. It is NOT primarily to kill the step option at close range SE, that's still SE K's job The point of it is that I use a lot of Prep 4, and on whiff I can just 4 again, then SE. This puts me in the "Danger Zone" for my opponent who might get hit by SE B.

SE A then becomes an amazing move with a separate mix-up for both block and hit. People are still very twitchy about forced backturns, and expect grabs, so when you land it - just run up and 66B / 236B. Hell tech trap a Prep K BE off of 66B, I aint yo mama - I wont tell you what to do.

Incidentally, 4B is accompanied by 66B in the "Let's ruin NMs day" category.
 
Be careful with that... some nightmares out yomi with naked GS into FC 3B which hurts something fierce.
 
Alright I'll bear that in mind. Yeah SE A is a very good tool to kill step and to allow 66B on it. I'm quite confident about its usefulness because I often use it.

Thanks for replying.
 
Kojiro_Kirijo said:
You sure like to boast Zanaken but I believe you do know the character and I wonder if you have any tips on the MU vs Nightmare. I'm not talking about how to punish this or that move but let's say general advice. What's the most reliable way to face an aggressive Night.

Also I tried to B+K Night's BE ( the earthquake attack you mentioned in an older post ) and couldn't figure out how it supposedly stops it. What did you mean ?
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this MU for me all comes down to how well you can pick off the little things all the while working in little things of your own.

because it's Raph, first thing anyone will do is step left, so integrating things like 2A, SE A, 2K etc will be a must.
and also NM is unsafe as shit, having an i12 punisher with THAT much range...man.

also I seem to notice your tendencies to go into SE needlessly. It's awesome for spacing and evading moves yes, how careless use ends up with you eating FC3B everytime.

imo the key to the MU is to utilize your PREP mixups effectively, knowing when to be aggressive and knowing when you need to sapce, this may involve having to a take a bit of shit before you can deal it out.
PREP B(B) ~ PREP B(B) would be a good way to determine if you're opponent will crouch at the site of PREP. NM's FC3B will cop this off pretty easily and will also have the range to cop off SE also.

In that case PREP K will catch duckers and stuff FC 3B all the same, this is when you can work in PREP mixups.
if your opponent stands firm expecting PREP K then you can SE B/SE A if they step.

if they back up you can do PREP 4 to back up also and create space.

also as Zannykins has stated NM's doesn't have a "be-all-end-all" move to stop all of Raphs stance transition, FC 3B won't work 100% of the time, 66K won't work 100% of the time and neither will 9K work 100% of the time
 
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ZER0 said:
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Completely agree on your assessment that Raphael wins this through attrition. Small but constant opportunities for damage with moves like 2K and 6BB really add up.

However, there's not much of a mixup to be had with Prep. An option does not necessarily need a 100% success rate to be effective. 51% would suffice given a large enough number of events, and I would venture that Nightmare's 77K is in fact capable of shutting down Prep often enough as to make it ineffective.
 
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