Raphael General Discussion

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[09] Warrior
I need a noob Raphael question answered and there wasn't a Raph general thread so I thought I'd start one.

I've started trying to learn Raphael and I'm doing alright, but im having some trouble with some of the more dominant close range characters such as the sisters and Taki etc. Raph seems slightly slower then them and its causing some problems for me.
When you guys are up against the faster characters and there spamming, especially online with no GI's what do you guys do to deal with this?
 
It depends what your being tripped-up on, but here's some broad tools to start with.

Some fast pokes are things like: 6B, K, 2A, 6A, 2K, 3K. These will help you get back some of the initiative.

You can also use things like VE, 4A, and 4A+B to help get out of the middle of stringed rushes.

Be on the lookout for overuse of highs or 2A's. If you anticipate highs you can punish these with tech crouching moves like 4B combos or 236B, 2A's or lows you can punish with Jumps, 44K or 11B.

Most fast characters won't be able to outrange you. Keep that in mind and do what you can to maintain space.

Also if you ever get caught up in Taki PO spam keep in mind that most of her fast PO moves are high, FC and iWS moves can really help take the edge out of that guessing game.
 
Thanks for the help, I think I do need to work on my spacing. I let people get in on me too easily and I think thats causing most of my problems.
 
I'd like to suggest learning when you can throw 44B in while being attacked. Learn your opponent's setups and strings, and I'm sure you'll find times 44B puts a hamper on their game.
 
Since this is the general discussion thread, I hope you don't mind me posting this here. I'm just trying to figure out which of Raph's moves are typically worth using and figured a rousing discussion could help with that. I figured BB is good since it tracks. 44B allows you to retreat and come in with a new attack. K, 3K, and 2K are fast and good for interrupting moves. 4B crouches and can go into prep. VE is good for stepping. Umm, what other important things am I forgetting?
 
Im pretty noob at Raph right now but other then the ones you mentioned here are a couple other moves I've had the most success with.

4A: Has a built in step, I seem to get people with this one quite a bit.

22_88B: A fairly quick high attack that brings you into VE

3B: The basic attack to get into prep

44K: Position switch
 
At mid range 3A, 6K, 22A, and iWSA are good moves to help you actively maintain space.

236B and 33KB are good twitch moves against wiffs. 11B is important too.
 
I need help figuring out Raph's FC game (tip: 2A).
Thows are normally not in range, but I do not even need throws -> 44AB is a great FC option but I cannot set it up!
WS B is interruptible , if they try to interrupt/GI 4B into combo... but actually to me 2A is stopping my offence.
Shen Rii listed 2A as a top move, But it seems pretty weak to me.

And any suggestions for a WS punishment are welcome, b/c otherwise gay asta throws ftw.
 
CH 2A for the +8 has been something I fish for quite a bit. WS B immediately afterwards (i17, with 8 advantage, is technically i9) is an excellent option. Combos on CH, tho steppable RIGHT (slightly different than what Raph is used to). Of course the grab potential up close or just them wanting to guard in general after realization of your advantage is nice.

Keep in mind that a blocked 2A is -6, thus making an immediate 4A+B GI high/mid horizontals of i11-i21~, making a great step vs this move mixup sometimes. For those who cant react to a blocked 2A very well, another 2A isn't a bad idea.

Keep in mind after attacking with 2A, you can double tap forward at the end of the attack to effectivly end in standing position. Thus making CH 2A (+8) into 3 or other options also a possibility (and a good one if anyone wants to step WS B to the right, as 3 needs stepped left).

From my testing, you lose 1 frame to stand. Unless it's my inability to do perfect inputs, but I can easily make this situation occur:

CH 2A (+8) , 66 (stand), 3A (i20) clash with Raph's 6B (i13). Doing the math, (20-8=12) I lost 1 frame to stand? Yes?
 
So your advice is to use it as a CH fishing? I find your explanation a bit too complicated for a i14 move that needs to be hit detected by both you and your opponent, perfect execution of RCC and well... simply put I just want to see if there's any decent uninterruptible option on both normal and CH that would net me adv on hit, so my opp would fear atacking. then I could have a set up to work around/along with. So far I find 2A not useful at all, since I'm passing initiative right away and no real mixup is involved.
 
I understand your concerns but my CH information above has served me well. I rarely land this s-mid on NH, but it happens occasionally. I actually seek for it to be blocked or CH due to mixups, such as on block, of VE or 4A+B, 4A, step, etc.

Seeing as how 2A gives you +4 on NH, your next FC A would be effectivly i9. So it's an option seeking that further +8 CH advantage spoke about above. Other than that, +4 isn't much for Raph to work from esp if he needs to nerf it to +3 in order to stand and open other options.

I'll mess around with it more but your concerns don't surprise me because Raph doesn't seem to compare to multiple other characters in good options hardly at all thus far.

Please share anything you come across. I'll mess around in training and see what else might be viable off NH.
 
Noone seems to class Raphs teleport A+K as worth using. I use it almost every match. Also naturally teleport = fun against n00bs.
A+K4, B+K works well to catch n00b from any distance.
66A+B, B+K, A+K6 can leave you behind the opponent if they get up during the teleport. If not you can use lows straight after and catch them if they roll.

What is the use of the cancel... 66A+B,G?
 
Noone seems to class Raphs teleport A+K as worth using. I use it almost every match. Also naturally teleport = fun against n00bs.
A+K4, B+K works well to catch n00b from any distance.
66A+B, B+K, A+K6 can leave you behind the opponent if they get up during the teleport. If not you can use lows straight after and catch them if they roll.

What is the use of the cancel... 66A+B,G?

Teleport, very fun. Though if somebody is sidestepping at a distance as most people do...Useless. Only find it good for avoiding attacks if perfectly timed for added confusion, or to get behind them while their still attacking. Somewhat of a GI...but not.

Cancel 66A+B will put you into prep, and also tracks. If they sidestep the unblockable, you will prep in their direction by canceling it.
 
Teleport, very fun. Though if somebody is sidestepping at a distance as most people do...Useless. Only find it good for avoiding attacks if perfectly timed for added confusion, or to get behind them while their still attacking. Somewhat of a GI...but not.

Cancel 66A+B will put you into prep, and also tracks. If they sidestep the unblockable, you will prep in their direction by canceling it.

Thanks for the advice, but you're talkin bout 44A+B. What you said is useful to me though.
 
Don't cancel 66A+B, it has no setup application. Use the move to hit grounded and for it's safety.
 
since the 1.03 patch thread is locked, i figured i'd just post it here (i'm in japan so i have the patch):

bb hasn't lost ALL of it's tracking abilities. it can still hit 8wr and when the opponent steps at the wrong time. it tracks better to the left than the right as far as i can tell.

just figured i'd fyi that.
 
since the 1.03 patch thread is locked, i figured i'd just post it here (i'm in japan so i have the patch):

bb hasn't lost ALL of it's tracking abilities. it can still hit 8wr and when the opponent steps at the wrong time. it tracks better to the left than the right as far as i can tell.

just figured i'd fyi that.

Many thanks for posting this information. When you say it tracks better to the left....have there been instances where it's been stepped to your left? or not at all?

I hope you dont mind but I posted this on cf.com (crediting you of course)
 
no prob.

yea, there were instances where it was completely stepped. it's definitely not as good as it used to be, but it still retains a little tracking. it really depends on the timing and it comes off as being... well, not 100% reliable, but usable. it hits 8wr a helluva lot better than it hits step.

i don't really know how else to explain it other than: sometimes it hits, sometimes it doesn't.
 
Given this information, it seems BB will just gain the issue the majority of his moves have, which is being evaded when the opponent is sidestepping left (Raph's right).

This will put a poor risk vs reward situation for Raph because now his only sidestep stopper is 2A which has short range; that isn't i20~ or greater (don't care to be CH).

Of course i20+ moves have their application, but usually in an environment where the common AA or other fairly quick (i20 or less) moves will track step. In Raph's case, you must take an adjusted view on the situation, however.
 
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