Raphael : Patch Changes and Discussion

WuHT

WuHT

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http://www.soularchive.jp/SC5/adjust/index.html

1.6BB BE and prepBB BE: shorter recovery frames . Decreased guard burst damage and increase in opponent's critical gauge

2. 1B (Single Montante): removed tech crouch (when did it ever have this ?)

3. 88B (Quick Mandritti): increased damage (20→26), longer recovery frames. The move was already too good. 6 damage won't compensate it for basically having only a ground hit combo ender instead of everybody's grown-to-love 3B combo ender.

4. 33KBE gained damage from 68 to 76.

5. 66A+G no longer feeds the opponent free edge meter

6. 6BBB prepBBB on CH now stuns. Damage decreased from 20 to 14. Opponent recovers faster on block (higher risk, higher reward)

7. prepK does 10 less damage, but stuns on CH (better give a 3B combo lol). Opponent recovers eariler on block, so even more unsafe.

8. prep K(BE) total overall damage the same, but first hit increased by 10 damage (so 2nd hit has a corresponding 10 damage nerf)

9. SE A being now - on guard.

10. SE B now is either easier for opponent to step.

11. CE doesn't feed opponent as much meter

Discuss:
 
WuHT said:
http://www.soularchive.jp/SC5/adjust/index.html


prepK does 10 less damage, but stuns (better give a 3B combo lol)
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welcome back prepA i hope it tracks at least.

Happy a lot of 33K damage boost i use it a lot...they almost fixed prep it seems...i would gladly trade it for SE nerfs...

But before actually testing how things changed its too early to say if it will be a success or not...


Argh did they make the whole raph more unsafe?
*epic facepalm for prep K
 
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having 6BBB /prep K be more unsafe will be balanced by figuring out what combos we can get out of it. No A+BA nerf means there is potential to reap REALLY good rewards without spending meter.
 
6bbb and prep k being unsafe isnt too big a deal. prep k is safeish if you space it well or after using prep 4 and 6bbb should only be used on hit confirms neway. In regards to 22B, it was - 10 so maybe if they made it -12 0r -14 it will still be gd cuz it can be made safe at range.

Also i feel like the wording may be very deliberate on some changes. "lengthen freeze for performing move" implies it might have more recovery on whiff and "shortened opponents freeze when guarding" implies a move being more negative on block .

After looking at the whole list, i think raph made out pretty well so far. every one is getting dmg nerfs meanwhile raph is keeping his dmg on 22b and potential getting more off of Ch prep bbb into 33kBE (wishful thinking lol)
 
on th eother side SE A and SE B huge nerf (because yes it is huge not being neutral OB on the first and tracking a little with the second) means that SE now is not almost broken as it was......and possibly won t justify the 20 frames risk.

Also they didn t say anything on prepK tracking (was steppable)...so the move could still be useless.

On the other hand QS4G fix could help......
 
it all depends how unsafe Se a is, i have a feeling its going to be negative enough to where we can still use our evasive moves on block. In regards to Seb There still a chance for the realign after a delay to keep its tracking prperties
 
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youngfox said:
6bbb and prep k being unsafe isnt too big a deal. prep k is safeish if you space it well or after using prep 4 and 6bbb should only be used on hit confirms neway. In regards to 22B, it was - 10 so maybe if they made it -12 0r -14 it will still be gd cuz it can be made safe at range.
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Yeah, -10 imo was TOO good considering the huge damage potential on NH (raph's 3rd best kept secret). Heck most of the time, at the proper range, the opponent will just hold guard cuz there is nothing they can do.

Also i feel like the wording may be very deliberate on some changes. "lengthen freeze for performing move" implies it might have more recovery on whiff and "shortened opponents freeze when guarding" implies a move being more negative on block .
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Hopefully my interpretations helped.

After looking at the whole list, i think raph made out pretty well so far. every one is getting dmg nerfs meanwhile raph is keeping his dmg on 22b and potential getting more off of Ch prep bbb into 33kBE (wishful thinking lol)
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Lol @ that combo. i12 ? Wow. 6BBB into A+BA would already deal more damage than what 6BB BE would do. 6BBB 3A W! A+BA 66A+B would be friggin too good. I hope something is guaranteed though, because if it's only +11 frames on hit it'll be like 22A (except you're close) so you can 66A+G/B+G vs 66B/6632B mixup.
 
SE B didn t track that much it just realign as you input the move .... so i think its realigning was removed :|

@wuHt don t think 3A wall splats in NH ..... does it?
 
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darkfender said:
SE B didn t track that much it just realign as you input the move .... so i think its realigning was removed :|
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I've had a lot of situations where I whiffed 3B, and the opponent tried to grab me from waking up the ground. SE B saved my butt and ended the match right there when raph re-aligned. So relying on SE B as a crutch that both does insane damage and semi-track would be pyrrha-esque and we won't tolerate that here.

Anytime SE B whiffs I just tell myself I should have SE A instead. Most opponents I have attack immediately after blocking SE A prepatch anyways, so instead of beating them out with 2A/3A you'll have to be creative with backstep or even 4A+B.
 
Hmm, according to this the change to 22B is slower startup ("lengthened freeze for performing the move"), not more recovery. Which would make it easier to step, but still just as safe.

Overall I think the changes are good. Hopefully the change to Prep BBB will increase Raph's combo damage across the board.
 
Gojira said:
Hmm, according to this the change to 22B is slower startup ("lengthened freeze for performing the move"), not more recovery. Which would make it easier to step, but still just as safe.
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For slower startup it is used the expression "starts out slower" or "slower execution".

There may still be some ambiguity, but it is solved by looking at Viola's 66B epic buff that includes both effects: "attack comes out faster. Shortened freeze for performing the move. Normal hit now has the same hit effect as counter hit."
 
no lenthen freeze means clearly its more unsafe both on block and on whiff.
i won t care probably cause i used it mainly as whiff punisher ....
it depends if it became -12, -14 or -16+ .-.
 
IdleMind said:
[06:21:47] <IdleMind> that means it gives more advantage on hit
[06:21:54] <IdleMind> quote me on that
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This was in reference to Aeon 66A's change note being "shortened freeze for performing the move". From this we can extrapolate that 22B gives less advantage on hit...that might not be such a good thing. We'll have to wait and see.
 
I guess 6BBB does not have the same properties as Prep BBB?

Glad to see 66A+G is no longer simply a match ender; still don't understand why that move was how it was, but it isn't anymore, so hurray.

22B is definitely less advantage on hit, because if it was less safe on block it would say "shortened opponent's freeze on block" instead. So Raphael takes longer to be able to follow up, which is a huge nerf to that move since you had to follow with 3B immediately before. Gone are the days of 22B, 22B, 44, 88B. *sadface*
-DC:sc5rap1:
 
Fendante said:
Wait...so 22B gives less advantage on hit but is also more unsafe?? The other buffs sound good. Still haven't heard anything about 3B or his antistep moves yet. With SE A being - on block, I hope it's safe. SE B even with easier-stepping is probably still +on block. Prep K alone does more damage and stuns on CH but Prep K BE first move does ten more damage...doesn't make sense???? Hopefully Prep K won't be steppable anymore.
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I think Prep K alone does 10 less damage, but the second hit using BE does 10 more, so total damage has not changed.
 
Am I the only one that feels like this is a net nerf? Maybe I'm just concerned over the loss in 22B usefulness. I suppose his damage potential from Prep has increased, so I shouldn't be complaining. He just seems more unsafe overall.
 
I think that 22B will be like what it is stated in the guide: -16 on block (the weird typo)

Or maybe they was writing the guide from the future????
 
actually i fear its a nerf ._.
but i couldn t tell it before trying...

List of raph "buffs":
-stepG removed
-backstep unsafer
-6BBB stun on CH (this can be huge and probably get works well on 4B NH and similar)
-prepK stun
-crumple stun fix
-prep BBBE safer (who cares if its steppable and JG is easy).
-33K damage increase (i actually use 33KB if only B matched 33K length considering in scIV it was even longer AND tracked).
-recovers Guard between rounds

What he lost:
-22B somhow nerfed (mm l22B imho was already slow as hell due to QS -.- and as i said i don t like 663B).
-6BBBunsafer on block (was -16 this ain t going to end well.....but i have to try it).
-prep K unsafer (was -16 this is BAD really really BAD and if its still steppable its trash)
-SE B lost tracking (ok it was lame but raph was so bad .....plus entering SE is a huge riskand aside those didn t get that much in exchange)
-SE A now negative (see above)
-GB damage as everyone



The point is did they make raph more viable?
I really can t tell without playing........
 
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