RIP DLC


See, I know you're correct in that it's the wrong word to use, so I want to outright make that clear.

When I used it though, I suppose I must've meant "perceived elitism" (or something of that ilk) - Casual or, less intelligent people, might see a constant badgering of their favourite aspect of the game to be somewhat akin to bullying, and acting as though 'X' way is the best and only way, and using that as a sort of justification to attack those game elements, even without attacking the person themselves, automatically rounds those people into a camp.

Elitism itself is defined similar to this - In that it describes the behaviour of a group who believes their opinions to be the authority due to some sort of intrinsic quality. In this case that would be skill at the game and dedication to the competitive side.

Whilst you might be able to justify this in some ways; Soul Calibur is, inherently, a competitive game after all, acting as though the fact that you've memorised frame data and dedicated yourself to learning JF's and whatnot automatically makes your opinion better than someone else's, and therefore belittling them for it, IS elitism. Certainly it means that your opinion of the game's core might be better informed, but it doesn't mean you merit more worth than anyone else.

In short, putting more time into a game, and being better at it than someone else, does not automatically mean your opinions should be taken as law and other's views don't count. Acting as such is being elitist.

So, by dismissing the entire casual crowd as "parasites" because they don't play the game the way you want/do, you're expressing a view that falls in with that definition, and so I think it's fair to say that it's an elitist viewpoint.
Which is especially flawed because the lines between Casual and Hardcore are often not as black and white as all that, but I'm digressing now.

Now, if you've gotten the idea that I'm some tourney-hating dress-up artist, I want to correct that. Whilst I may've started on the casual side (learning the characters took more time than I had available to me), I've always felt that the games were still a little off-balanced. I may have been a casual, but that didn't mean I wanted to remain as such, yet the older games didn't have enough competitive accessibility for me, given my time constraints.

This is where, in my opinion, V struck quite a balance between the hardcore and the casual elements. Learning a character suddenly got a lot easier, and whilst I can't pin that down to any one singular reasons, I'd hazard a guess that the shortened movelists and simplification of gameplay elements really helped this. Sure they changed G.Iing, which a few people gripe about, but it's been made easier, functioning as an entryway to those who wanted to improve, but were perhaps daunted by some of the advanced techniques. On top of this, JGing was introduced so that advanced players still had something they could utilise, meaning that the difference in skill couldn't be offset by one mechanic.

Your opinion on casual elements are along the same line as my own, although I'd disagree that things like Story and Arcade modes don't teach you how to be better at the game and are therefore irrelevant.
Sure fighting the A.I is nowhere near fighting a real person, but they allow newer players to get a pressure-free grasp of the basics, without fear of being ridiculed. Once they take it online and get whooped, it's down to that person's resolve and problem solving methods as to whether or not they chose to improve, or wallow around in scrubland forever. That's not Story Mode's fault or whatever.

I agree that G.C is almost entirely populated by juveniles, and it's unfortunate that the only solution at present is to make your own room and either make it private, or hope that you don't have to go out your way to block ever yiffing genitalia beast that enters.

A trend I've noticed in the SA's is to have regular G.C meet-ups, so people can practice that character against those who know better. There's also the Tuesday Takeovers, which I'm sure you're aware of. These things are already combating the issue somewhat, and I can't help but want to support them. More things like this are needed to not only grow the community, but to make online mode more engaging again.

The best solution, however, would be the SCIV route. Having the option to not engage with CaS characters online? That's a win/win as far as I'm concerned - Serious players get their engaging play, and casual-minded people get their wacky jollies on.

I've gotten my fair share of hatemail in the past to know that casuals can be elitists too (and I hope you didn't think I was trying to argue that they couldn't be) - Did you know Leixia is broken? Ring Outs are cheating? Using lows makes you a try-hard? (whatever the hell that is).

So you see, (assuming I've articulated my points well enough) in my opinion a more synthetic product wouldn't demean any one side of the demographic, but would optimally find a way to provide for both. No easy means by any stretch, but as exampled, even adding separate CaS and non-CaS options for online would go a LONG way to remedy a growing problem.
 
adding separate CaS and non-CaS options for online would go a LONG way to remedy a growing problem.

See, this specifically is what I disagree with. The problem already is segregated elements. What we need is a fusion rather than such disparate elements that they feel like two separate games fused together at the hip.
 
So there's two choices.

Filter out the shit so its all somewhere else in a giant mass and not near you.

Or spread the shit so thinly that no matter where you go its always there.


A games player base is like a pyramid, with that one EVO winner at the top and the 'casuals' at the bottom.
 
See, this specifically is what I disagree with. The problem already is segregated elements. What we need is a fusion rather than such disparate elements that they feel like two separate games fused together at the hip.

So how would you propose we achieve that?
 
So how would you propose we achieve that?

I'd start by accepting the game for what it is- it's a fighting game with an engine that has so many possibilities for intricacy, even in SC5's thinning out of it, that it makes most action games look shallow. Everything else on top of that is window dressing that should flow into that central premise. Once we accept this, we have to ask the following question:

How does one hook a consumer?

Answer: You offer them shiny flashy interesting shit to their taste (story/characters/dress-up/whatever) to get them "in" and all the while you also use these elements to subtly encourage people to explore and understand the system. Then you get an invested consumer who won't necessarily be put off by "OMG MY CHARACTER IS GONE SUDDENLY AND THATS ALL THAT WAS HOLDING ME TO THE GAME SERIES/SALE". You want less of that, where possible. The game-play in all modes, single player, online, offline, even dress-up should encourage that to a degree, though it should be subtle and fun; kind of like how a good personal trainer makes exercise fun by varying up the routine.

So this means you can't do shit like "CaS only movelists" unless you are willing to EXPLICITLY make it know that they are either jokes, inferior, or goofy-side stuff. You also can't expect a story mode to hook someone in if all it does is test your knowledge of how to exploit a bad AI. There is no sense of accomplishment, no lingering "what else is there."

The line then goes from "Story --> Mashing ---> CaS ---> Online --> Quitting because you don't know how to play because the game didn't teach you to." That sucks and just leads us to where we are now.

Presentation matters. Right now the presentation pushes people towards one side or the other, and that sucks.
 
It is known. During these years in various sources I've read several times that to make updates (patches) and DLC content companies must pay to Sony a fee since it's a service Sony provides.
Microsoft charges a couple thousand dollars for a two megabyte patch, its ridiculous.
 
Presentation matters. Right now the presentation pushes people towards one side or the other, and that sucks.

All I can really say is that I pretty much agree with everything you just said, but there're always people who aren't going to be interested in getting to good at the game.

Saying that though, it seems that anyone who's serious about the game straight up knows that the CaS only movesets aren't worth it, and that anyone who uses them likely isn't going to try become the most competitive player. Granted there might be some online heroes, but nobody who is serious enough to attend tournies is going to focus too hard on them anyway, so I don't have a problem with them in regards to that.
 
Even if things were to change to suit the needs of people, I just KNOW people will find something new to complain about.
-_-....It's a never ending story. ( aah aah aah)
 
I will say it again - Namco wont give patches / character DLCs to parasites who play this game casualy for 2-3 months or just use it for CAS!
 
@ldlemind, l remember saying something similar this in a way before in regards to why l disagree with the return of CAS exclusive weapon styles as some people want because CAS exclusive gameplay doesnt, benifit you outside your creation if youre forced to play with others outside your content you'd be pretty lost without that cas character's own set. Atleast with sc4 removing them lt forces players to learn the default regardless and better familiarizes the player. Plus its not worth the time to balance unimportant weapons. The story and the option of cas should be the alternate insentive to play the game and give newer players a place to practice but the pay off needs to help them grow up for real matches outside that safe zone aswell.
 
I have no problem with CaS exclusive styles; I only have a problem with them if they don't even belong. If PS is going to have more CaS extra styles, I hope they have weapons and not fists!

And if they don't have extra styles, oh well *shrugs*
 
CaS exclusive styles, especially for how it was introduced and presented, was mainly to benefit CaS creations and adding some individuality against the default roster.

Though some moves were borrowed from default characters and characters from other games, let's not get into that subject shall we?

For the most part, yes SC does need to change it to customization instead of creation if they aren't putting it to good use, and some people don't even care about creation anyways. Let's not get into that "some" either.
 
I kinda liked the CaS styles in SCIII, but Devil Jin is something that didn't really belong in this game. It was almost as bad as a Jedi being in the game.

Though for some reason I did have a lot of fun as Heihachi in SCII. :P


Ever wonder what happened to us as gamers in general? In the old days you see some crazy person from another game make an appearance and it was like "OMG that is awesome! It's cool that there was a little bonus character in there!" And now when people hear there is a bonus style or something it gets picked apart in every way from the playstyle and balance to whether that character belongs in the game and makes sense within the story or something. I dunno if we just all grew up or if the online play forced us to address balancing issues in ways other than. "Ok guys no one pick the overpowered guy or you give up your controller."
 
I kinda liked the CaS styles in SCIII, but Devil Jin is something that didn't really belong in this game. It was almost as bad as a Jedi being in the game.

Though for some reason I did have a lot of fun as Heihachi in SCII. :P


Ever wonder what happened to us as gamers in general? In the old days you see some crazy person from another game make an appearance and it was like "OMG that is awesome! It's cool that there was a little bonus character in there!" And now when people hear there is a bonus style or something it gets picked apart in every way from the playstyle and balance to whether that character belongs in the game and makes sense within the story or something. I dunno if we just all grew up or if the online play forced us to address balancing issues in ways other than. "Ok guys no one pick the overpowered guy or you give up your controller."

I think daishi said at an interview which is on some vid channel that having characters without weapons wouldn't be soul calibur..... the irony of that.
 
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