Rise of Leixia!

[MntT77]

Also how can people say Leixia's mixups are bad?

Leixia's mixups aren't bad in the sense that their general properties are bad. The reason they're considered 'bad' is because they do a fair bit less damage than most characters' mixups. Sure, Leixia might with them 50% more often than anyone else, but if they only do half the damage, that still means Leixia's mixups are 'bad' comparatively.

Let's see what she can get off a simple 2K:
WR A+B(low)
WR B(Evasive)
WR A
WR K(free AA on hit and pressure on block)
6KK
66K
FC 3B
FC 3BB

And that is just scratching the surface. She has good mixups, in fact that is like her greatest strength.

2K leaves you at -2 on hit - not ideal if you want to start mix-up.

While most of those moves you listed do indeed have their uses, FC 3bB is just generally horrible. And do you want to know why? Because the instant that cute little jailbait says 'Umm...' like the perpetually innocent little flower she is, all your opponent has to do is to quickly initiate a TJ move to stuff her up. For example, Natsu can react with 9KA for over 60 damage!

 

[ZeroEffect317]

FC 3bB is just generally horrible. And do you want to know why? Because the instant that cute little jailbait says 'Umm...' like the perpetually innocent little flower she is, all your opponent has to do is to quickly initiate a TJ move to stuff her up. For example, Natsu can react with 9KA for over 60 damage!

It's really not as simple as that, honestly. This will only happen if you are getting predictable with it, or you play a certain opponent all the time use similar setups. UB cancel into iFC3BB, FC 3BB in wakeup traps (ie: after CH 3A+B or 66AA) not easy to react to even for people who play leixia themselves.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Leixia's mixups aren't bad in the sense that their general properties are bad. The reason they're considered 'bad' is because they do a fair bit less damage than most characters' mixups. Sure, Leixia might with them 50% more often than anyone else, but if they only do half the damage, that still means Leixia's mixups are 'bad' comparatively.



2K leaves you at -2 on hit - not ideal if you want to start mix-up.

While most of those moves you listed do indeed have their uses, FC 3bB is just generally horrible. And do you want to know why? Because the instant that cute little jailbait says 'Umm...' like the perpetually innocent little flower she is, all your opponent has to do is to quickly initiate a TJ move to stuff her up. For example, Natsu can react with 9KA for over 60 damage!

Which is true for people who know how to fight Leixia, you are right. Keep in mind that all those attacks I listed after a 2K can also be used after a 3B 1B untechable knockdown(which is when I usually use it anyway). She also has other mixups:

After AA you can either grab, BE, another AA, 6KK, 66K. She has her feints, her 6BA, her 66AA or her 66BB. I mean she has a lot. They are low damaging, but they are also safe.

 

[MntT77]

Oh yeah, if they're on the ground it has some uses. I'll re-phrase that: 'FC 3bB is just generally horrible if your opponent is standing'

Also, does anyone else find it a bit silly how 66K does more damage than 3B?

Which is true for people who know how to fight Leixia, you are right. Keep in mind that all those attacks I listed after a 2K can also be used after a 3B 1B untechable knockdown(which is when I usually use it anyway). She also has other mixups:

After AA you can either grab, BE, another AA, 6KK, 66K. She has her feints, her 6BA, her 66AA or her 66BB. I mean she has a lot. They are low damaging, but they are also safe.

No one's saying that Leixia has ineffective mixups. They ARE effective - just not to the same extent as they are with most.

 

[Kvasir]

2K leaves you at -2 on hit - not ideal if you want to start mix-up.

2K is great for mixups in this game. -2 is nothing, just mix a interrupt (Like 2A or 2K) with a attack from backstep (or 44B) and something to control movement and of course have a plan to punish passive opponents. At such slight disadvantage your opponents options are not better than yours.

 

[Zoidberg747]

2K is great for mixups in this game. -2 is nothing, just mix a interrupt (Like 2A or 2K) with a attack from backstep (or 44B) and something to control movement and of course have a plan to punish passive opponents. At such slight disadvantage your opponents options are not better than yours.

I think what they mean is that I should be careful what I use after it, and not get too predictable. But it works really well, especially for leixia who can get a lot of attacks off of it if the opponent does not know the frame data.

 

[ShinjiUrahara]

i'm done talking to walls and i've never given off any strategies but jump hitting 1Ks and two people seem to immediately think i'm a bad leixia player even though they have no idea how i play. i'm done with this thread.

No, I don't think you're a bad player (I couldn't possibly since I haven't played you) besides I'm not the type of guy to go around making fun of people, that is really beneath me. However, me simply stating you don't understand her was my OPINION which was gathered from your posts (I was only going by what you said).

Anyways, I'll gladly take you on. My PSN is same as username.

leixia damage has to come from mix ups and mind games she's not for the straight forward players.
so if you cant do it consider picking an easier character like pyrrha or patroklos.
she is designed for the players who like complex mind games and breaking their opponent down by out smarting them.
if your a player who likes to keep it simple or have a basic game plan.
you really wont do well with leixia, that's where you may find yourself thinking shes bad.
to be honest in actually fact you just are not using her properly.

leixia is not an aggro character, in which you hope to over whelm your opponent with brainless rush down.
she is a character that requires great thought and careful planing.
if your damage mad and then i suggest you pick up another character, or start learning how to mix up to make up for that damage.

Exacta!

I'm in total in favor with you here, as I've stated the exact same things yesterday.

She is not a bread and butter character, requires a lot of skill to play effectively. Good to know that someone else understand's this.

Uh, I hate to bring this up to you, but only as far as the patch notes went. Tira lost her ability to change stances, Leixia got all of her signatures nerfed. And I mean every last one. It looked like Tira got nerfed worse because the list was longer, but one, she was better before she got nerfed, just Leixia seemed to have a pretty good match-up against her, and two, Tira was still an alright character. It just required people to master Jolly.

Yeah I was told late yesterday about the full understandings of her patch (Tiras)... Not like I ever payed much attention since I didn't play her but yeah the hella long list threw me off.

Leixia's mixups aren't bad in the sense that their general properties are bad. The reason they're considered 'bad' is because they do a fair bit less damage than most characters' mixups. Sure, Leixia might with them 50% more often than anyone else, but if they only do half the damage, that still means Leixia's mixups are 'bad' comparatively.

2K leaves you at -2 on hit - not ideal if you want to start mix-up.

While most of those moves you listed do indeed have their uses, FC 3bB is just generally horrible. And do you want to know why? Because the instant that cute little jailbait says 'Umm...' like the perpetually innocent little flower she is, all your opponent has to do is to quickly initiate a TJ move to stuff her up. For example, Natsu can react with 9KA for over 60 damage!

Mix ups are not deemed bad or good based on damage, that's not even considerable of the mixing up factor. Mix ups are good depending on their frames, properties, and consistency. With those 3 things even the LEAST damaging mix up can be a very GOOD/Dangerous one to deal with. BB and Grab mix ups is a perfect example, and is one of the more consistent mix ups out there... Like I said before, once you get in your opponent's head anything is possible. "Even a blade of grass can be used a weapon."

With that being said, Leixia has some of the best mix ups/ set ups in the game! Her mix ups are at best when she's in FC state, so may want to try and be FC more often (unless ur fighting asta).

If you read the previous pages, you'll see I posted set ups for FC 3bB... I hit 'pro' players with this 95% of the time. Why? Because I use it properly that's why. Of course if you just whore it out there without properly setting up then they will jump or JG.

@Mnt77
Yeah I totally agree on 3B being less damaging than 66K is silly.

 

[Windstar]

So the 'low-tier' Tira wins EVO , no Leixia in top 8 kinda a disappointment because we had some pretty good Leixia players there. Looking at Decapon matches we see a lot of skill, great reading, aggression, good mind games, and pro execution. This shows us that it's not the character but the player... Tira got nerfed worse than leixia, pretty bad actually. This is just a word of motivation, I know most of you are struggling with the nerfed lex but don't give up on her because she has more than the tools she needs to be a beast we just have to bring that out.

So let's go team Leixia! If Tira can top Leixia can too!

Compared to Leixia, Tira doesn't actually have a bad match-up. She's certainly not the strongest character in the game, but she's one of the most well-rounded characters (like Nightmare, Pat, and others) in SC5. I'm really not surprised by who the top eight character picks were.

 

[ShinjiUrahara]

Compared to Leixia, Tira doesn't actually have a bad match-up. She's certainly not the strongest character in the game, but she's one of the most well-rounded characters (like Nightmare, Pat, and others) in SC5. I'm really not surprised by who the top eight character picks were.

Every character has a bad match up. Just up until now no one really gave two fucks about Tira care but now everyone will study/ learn her for tournament purposes. Things will be different next time... Also, Tira has a bad match up vs Rugi. This was clearly seen in the match Decopon vs Mateo who went to the final round in that match. Mateo lost because he didn't know the match up... Like I said, no one cared to learn Tira as she deemed shit after the patch.

 

[ZeroEffect317]

Tira has problems with spacing.. ie: Ivy, Nightmare, and probably Mitsu too. maybe Sieg. I also don't know if she does very well vs either of the Pyrrhas

 

[setto-kun]

Actually, matchup with Mitsu is pretty good, I will even say it's in Tira's favor. Good spacing game however will still cause her a lot of problems, true. But nvm what's with all of this offtopic in Leixia SA?

 

[AKNova7]

It's really not as simple as that, honestly. This will only happen if you are getting predictable with it, or you play a certain opponent all the time use similar setups. UB cancel into iFC3BB, FC 3BB in wakeup traps (ie: after CH 3A+B or 66AA) not easy to react to even for people who play leixia themselves.

...That's...not exactly true. Since those moves TJ at i1, jumping that move almost has DOA timing. Now, off the ground I can see, but that's because of the BROKENLY bad wake-up system.

 

[AKNova7]

Are you kidding me? When someone knows Leixia it opens up even more mind games. The people I play with know her B+G rings out and W!. This gives me a guaranteed A+G throw which is 55 dmg I think. They also use jumping attacks out of the 1KK string so I do 1K, 44B to keep their asses in check and score ring outs and W! If I can. Unfortunately Xiba can hit you with 9A if you do anything but block there :(

WTF? 9A? That move is like i100, why aren't you just beating it out?

 

[Reave]

WTF? 9A? That move is like i100, why aren't you just beating it out?

Because any character can jump attack out of 1KK after you block the first K. Xiba's 9A has enough reach to hit 44B after 1K is blocked. 22B+K can aGi it.

 

[EmptySky00]

Not getting how a seperate character winning means Leixia can win. Apples and oranges? I vote Leixia to be the apple because Gods of death like apples /Kiraface.jpg. That being said, Leixia CAN win if used correctly, but Tira winning doesn't magically make her good. There are so many holes in Leixia's game. I hate when people try to disavow the fact that Leixia is bad on insubstantial arguments. <_>

And tiers don't say "THIS CHARACTER CAN'T WIN GO USE SOMEONE BETTER," they just give a comparison of effectiveness in relation to other characters.

 

[AKNova7]

Because any character can jump attack out of 1KK after you block the first K. Xiba's 9A has enough reach to hit 44B after 1K is blocked. 22B+K can aGi it.

Well, yeah, they can jump the second hit, but I was referring to the first kick being -2 on block, so unless 9A is an STJ, that'd be a bad idea, because there's so many ways Leixia can hit you out of that. lol

 

[Reave]

Well, yeah, they can jump the second hit, but I was referring to the first kick being -2 on block, so unless 9A is an STJ, that'd be a bad idea, because there's so many ways Leixia can hit you out of that. lol

Well 44B is the most reliable W! afterwards because it W! pretty far away+it dodges most jumping attacks but hits late enough for a NH. I only do this near a wall. If your constantly going for the same setups for W! then you become predictable and aren't using Leixia effectively IMO.

 

[AKNova7]

Well 44B is the most reliable W! afterwards because it W! pretty far away+it dodges most jumping attacks but hits late enough for a NH. I only do this near a wall. If your constantly going for the same setups for W! then you become predictable and aren't using Leixia effectively IMO.

Yes, but it's also very read based. You must properly read your opponent is going to try and attack afterwards, or else you're risking them just sitting there and blocking. Or throwing out a vertical.

 

[EmptySky00]

And also you can get hit out of 44B if they use a long enough ranged attack. Leixia =/= Mitsu.

 

[AKNova7]

Not getting how a seperate character winning means Leixia can win. Apples and oranges? I vote Leixia to be the apple because Gods of death like apples /Kiraface.jpg. That being said, Leixia CAN win if used correctly, but Tira winning doesn't magically make her good. There are so many holes in Leixia's game. I hate when people try to disavow the fact that Leixia is bad on insubstantial arguments. <_>

And tiers don't say "THIS CHARACTER CAN'T WIN GO USE SOMEONE BETTER," they just give a comparison of effectiveness in relation to other characters.

Her only real hole is her damage potential. WR B BE was just so good that it overrode that problem. They took it away from her, and now she's just bleh.