Salty...

Faust

Faust

[08] Mercenary
I haven't been around here in a long time, but I haven't had a reason to be until lately.

So I figured I'd bring something up for some discussion, maybe ask for some help here.

Recently I've been part of an active group of SC players, which has been amazing to say the least, so I've been back on SC4 quite a bit. I don't play online (I hear of bad lag which would make for bad practice, and my net probably isn't that great anyway) so I try to invite some other friends over for some casuals. So here's the deal with that.

One of the two that play with me is actually pretty eager to learn some new stuff and get better at it. I've played his character before so I've passed him some tips and combos and stuff mid match that he can practice while he plays me. Last we played he sucked up 50 losses and didn't gripe one bit, but was instead happy he walked away a little better at the game.

The other guy that pops in will only play SC4 after he's thoroughly beaten me at least 20 times in any Street Fighter or really any Capcom made fighter. In return, he might play 10 rounds with me, grudgingly and without really trying at all. He says the same thing the first guy does and asks for some help with getting better, but every time he shows up to learn anything I try to show him some practical combos and tricks and he doesn't try any of it and instead commits to basically button mashing while holding whatever direction is towards my character. I've reached a breaking point with him to where he now can only hold one game over my head that he can consistently beat me at, and he gets really upset whenever I beat him at something he used to beat me at.

So the problem I've narrowed it down to isn't SC specifically, but that he's generally a pretty poor sport about losing. I don't know what to do about him really other than tell him off next we play.

I'm just wondering if anyone here has ever had a similar problem and has already dealt with it. Any advice?
 
I'm gonna guess this guy is your friend too? If that's the case, is he just getting upset like normal, or is he making everyone else around him miserable or tense due to his anger?

I can't say I relate to your situation entirely since, while I've had a number of friends get upset at losing, I wasn't really in a position to teach/help them at the time. I too was lacking knowledge about fighting games as a whole, but I had a bit more natural talent, and more importantly, a larger drive to figure things out and strategize. Which is where my point comes in.

The first guy you mentioned sounds like he'll make a great learner. Not because of progress, (he did lose 50 games to you after all), but because he finds satisfaction in improving and getting better. This is key to any player getting good at any game. The willingness to learn. The second guy clearly would rather win than improve. So naturally by beating him, you're basically taking away his "fun".

I'm not saying he's a lost cause, but until he decides on his own to want to improve, he's likely to continue to brush off your advice and get frustrated when his way isn't working against you anymore. Ask him if he really wants to get any better. Maybe make a challenge out of it or something. "Hey if you wanna beat me you gotta learn this or that" I dunno. You know this guy better than I do. But if you're gonna get anywhere with this guy you have to convince him somehow to have the desire to learn.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
I'm gonna guess this guy is your friend too? If that's the case, is he just getting upset like normal, or is he making everyone else around him miserable or tense due to his anger?
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You totally called it here. His tension sucks up the mood and ruins the environment. He is my friend as well, and we used to have sporting fun at fighting games. However, after I realized his attitude towards losing I stopped playing anything competitive since it was going to kill our friendship. Now that I have this new environment to play games in I really want some outside practice, and Friend B has more potential to learn faster than Friend A.

A few days ago I got him to at least admit to his hypocrisy since he always said he'd practice and try to learn things when I was there to help, but instead fessed up and said he really only had interest in Street Fighter. But I know he's only coming by anymore to play that and try to prove some asinine superiority complex and it's gotten old. I'm not saying I'm trying to avoid games he's good at, but his obvious refusal to play anything else is infuriating.

As a reference, he has done this many times in the past. Like I said, I had to abandon fighting games in general since I like having my two friends over for games and stuff. But now, with a new place to play, I'd like my practice against something other than an AI that gets crushed under the heavy boot of Astaroth like roaches.
 
To be honest, your best bet is to look at him in the eyes and tell him he's got a problem. I've done it to others and I've had it done to me, we've all had ragers in our playgroups (by we I mean we as a community) and the only way to deal with it is to just get them to admit they have a raging problem and that they need to get it in check.

The worst that will happen is he'll keep raging, so it's no loss at all. And if he's mature, he'll at least admit it and work on bettering himself.
 
You can also tell him that he has to stop coming to the get togethers until he decides to be mature about losing. Tell him he's great at SF and all, but you're not doing the same thing to him when you lose in that game. If all he cares about learning is SF, then let him. If he wants to be a pompous ass about losing then tell him not to come back until he gets it in check. If he comes back and says "Oh don't worry about it, I wont do it" and he does, kick his ass out then and there to show him you're serious.

I've done this before with mood killers and it works quite well because they want to play their favorite game with other people as much as you do and if you deny them that, they'll stop their childish antics pretty quickly.
 
Thanks much for the advice guys. We were all getting together later today and I didn't want to go blindly telling him off for being a punk without getting at least a second opinion. But if it's the way it has to be to get him to stop being such a kid about it all, then that's what I'll do.

I'll probably get back to you with results later, hopefully it won't get too out of hand. Back to practicing my JF throws then.
 
To be honest, my approach would be to mock and laugh at him whenever he gets angry. Then, when he asks why I'm laughing at him, I tell him he's being an idiot. I've never dealt with this problem, but it seems kind of funny. I couldn't help but laugh. Oh, I'd also focus more time on the game he beats you consistently on so I can see more real life rage. But, that's just me.
 
So I called him on it. He brought up how he didn't want to play anymore SC around me and wound up getting told to not even bring his own fighting games over if that was the case. He caved 5 seconds later and said he'd practice a little before coming over. So I guess that went well. Time to see if he'll hold up his end of the deal though.
 
See, deny him what he actually wants and he'll fall like a house of cards. Works about 90% of the time, only the most stubborn of assholes will fight it, or if they have other options.
 
All right, so this may be a weird sinerio, but:

I have the same problem with my son when we play. If I learn something new, I will beat his ass with it till I see hes getting frustrated. So when that happens, I go into teacher mode. I point out what hes doing wrong and I in turn will teach him the new move in question, show him how its punishable, or easily blocked or whatever and let him go to town on me for a few rounds. Hes a smart kid so it doesnt take that long. But when it comes to street fighter its a different story. Id been playing street fighter since I was in junior high and understand the mechanics of the game. He doesnt, so I take advantage and beat him up constantly to the point where he doesnt like to play sf4 with me. Its been so many years since I was totally into sf2 that Im no where near pro so I cant teach him what hes doing wrong cause I really dont know.

You need to sit him down and show him why hes getting hit when you such this, and if you duck this you can punish me with this and so on and so forth. Granted my son is 10 years old, but hes a pretty good Maxi player (check my vids of me and him playing if you like) so if he gets to angry I just tell him to put the controller down and lets go play baseball outside or something. You should try to be more of a teacher. And if he REALLY wants to get better he will accept your teachings.

HRD
 
HRD, my advice, if you would like, would be to learn the mechanics of SF like you have with SC. I learned SC's actual mechanics in about a month, SF about as long. Once you have that, you can teach him like you do SC. You can only teach up to everything you know. Just my own advice, take it or leave it, or tell me to go to hell because its none of my business, either way.
 
HRD, in case you are wanting to learn more of SF, this goes for you as well Faust, here are some 101 videos for SF4/SSF4.



 
MammothMan said:
HRD, my advice, if you would like, would be to learn the mechanics of SF like you have with SC. I learned SC's actual mechanics in about a month, SF about as long. Once you have that, you can teach him like you do SC. You can only teach up to everything you know. Just my own advice, take it or leave it, or tell me to go to hell because its none of my business, either way.
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GO TO HELL....lol. Now thats great advice I appreciate it. Ive looked at a ton of sf4 vids. Ive been studying akumas challenge trials or whatever. I cant even clear all those. Then once I do, I have to do the hard ones! My kid and I are pretty even on sf4. I just spam akumas ultra whenever I can. lol But I really do appreciate it!!

HRD
 
Well, that went over about as poorly as I'd hoped.

Friend A, the usually sporting one, played with me for 3 hours. The summary of which would be him getting sore for losing (while playing at a 200% health advantage) and trying to call me frustrated whenever he won (which was a staggering 2 games to who knows how many I had). To top it off, he griped constantly about getting hit with tech traps, wakeup throws, and other things that I had explained to him the means of escaping/working around. While he did start to figure out a way around it, he gave up suddenly after so much progress and decided to just lay on the ground/hop out of the ring/stand still. I even took a break to show him some tricks and combos with his character, which he picked up quickly, and then hopped back into it with the same griping he had before the little learning session. Not sure what to do with him.

Luckily, Friend B didn't jump in so I didn't have to deal with his whining today. So that went over okay I guess.

So out with one problem and in with a new one.
 
People that don't practice and don't do the research on their own just won't get it if you explain it to them. They have to WANT to learn, rather than just teaching AT them. Aim Friend A to this site, let him do the research, get into the community, study his char of choice. If he wants to learn, all of the resources and tools he'd ever need are right here. He just has to have the motivation for it.
 
Discipline like a father. Nurture like a mother. Encourage as a friend.
That's the short and sweet way to describe: how to get salty people back into sweet people.
 
Faust: See if there's any pro SC or SF players in your area and invite them over with your buddies. You'll probably lose. A lot. I think they need to see you lose in SC, since right now they probably see the game as 'broken,' even though you've showed them it's not. And your SF-playing friend needs a lesson in humility, followed by, "listen to that guy, he's smart."
 
MammothMan said:
People that don't practice and don't do the research on their own just won't get it if you explain it to them. They have to WANT to learn, rather than just teaching AT them. Aim Friend A to this site, let him do the research, get into the community, study his char of choice. If he wants to learn, all of the resources and tools he'd ever need are right here. He just has to have the motivation for it.
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I tried to pull up some stuff here for him when he was here, took the time to explain some terminology to him, and he was even offered a copy of the game to take home and practice with. He doesn't seem so into learning as he thinks he is and it feels like he just wants that instant gratification that a number of 2d fighters could give him. That and he plays DOA4 as his primary fighter, so I don't know what to tell him.

But he told me he didn't have an interest in getting into the details of the game. He just wanted combos that were quick and painless.

Archangel said:
Faust: See if there's any pro SC or SF players in your area and invite them over with your buddies. You'll probably lose. A lot. I think they need to see you lose in SC, since right now they probably see the game as 'broken,' even though you've showed them it's not. And your SF-playing friend needs a lesson in humility, followed by, "listen to that guy, he's smart."
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I've actually met up with a guy from here at a local get together who's much better than me. He reminded me to get back on here to meet up with some people and get back into my old groove. So now I get the pleasure of getting my tail handed to be twice a month (which one of my friends was supposed to show up at, but instead dumped out for something else) which has been a real treat. But I also never played a lot of good Ivy players so my experience vs the guy is limited to playing him twice a month.

As for the SF guy, he's learned his lesson I'm sure. Being told that his game wasn't valid for "hang out time" simply because he couldn't suck up a couple of actual losses chilled his mood out a lot. His lessons in humility have come over the last month gradually from him losing at a couple of game she thought he had over me and now clearly doesn't. Still, it doesn't seem to make much of a difference since he defaults back to wanting to play SF4 whenever he starts losing and refuses to accept any sort of tip I throw his way.


EDIT: Sorry if I seem a naysayer, but thanks a mil to you guys. It's been a big help reading your replies.
 
Sounds like SC is not a game for him. It's no instant gratification game, it's one of the most thought out and strategic fighters in existence.
 
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