SC5: Improved Competitive Ideas

IvyFanboy

IvyFanboy

[11] Champion
We have a few SC5 threads (so feel free to relocate i this doesn't warrant it's own specific one)

I love SC4 and i feel it was the right direction for the game to be more competitive, but I can't help but notice some things could be done better to make it even more so:

Identifiable Grabs - One issue I have with grabs is you have to guess A or B. I'm fine with having to choose between two options but I feel their should be a visual distinction between the two grabs. Perhaps A grabs start with left hand and B grabs start with the right. they'll look similar but it will give you enough of a clue to get out. Fighters have guessing moments at times, but their is always a moment you can visually readjust if another option was selected. With throws it's luck if you guess right and you have no way to tell which is coming apart from RO setups and other things.

ROs shouldn't always kill - I never whine about most ROs but I feel they can be done better and it would be better for both the casuals and the competitive community. When you RO an opponent it should simply drop down to a new level, inflicting massive damage on the fallen opponent and putting them at disadvantage. Sure it can end a fight but it will only take 33-40% max damage away allowing a person to live if RO'd too soon. It will also look visually cooler and not feel so cheap.

Breakable walls - Now we've seen this a little with levels like the pirate ship but wouldn't it be cool if the stage could open up or close as the fight progresses, altering the strategy? Say you're on a circular balcony with walled segments preventing you from running around it. You could break those down with wall splats and the stage would get longer. Naturally you would need an unbreakable wall that would stop an infinitely long stage. You could also have walls that would do more wall splat damage or change things. A spiked wall for example would have a very nasty stun and damage and a wall with a chain might force a gate to drop if smashed.

Armor Break Redone - I like the armor break idea but in SC4 no one would intentionally aim to break armor off and in BD it made no sense with being cumulative. I think the way it breaks should be the same, but the result different. If you break off armor it should result in certain moves dealing a different kind of hit stun AND a minor boost of damage to that area. Now the improved stun may only be a few frames, but some will cause a shakable stun or open up new combo options, making it more rewarding to actually attempt armor breaking.
 
in sc2 you could watch the beginning of the grab animation and have time to make a more informed guess if you were really on your game.

i like the idea of having a JF to catch the ring edge and pull yourself back in. that would make things very interesting. getting rid of ROs, though, would drastically change the zoning play that has been integral to calibur since the beginning.
 
Well ROs would still be there, they just wouldn't always be KO. They would still be very powerful and worth attempting, but would deal damage instead of a guaranteed win. Also it could be designed that some levels have a full on cliff ftw and others have a new level to drop down too. This could broaden the depth of the stages.

also It would just be visually cool if sometimes a breakable RO wall collapsed As you went through it. Say you get smashed through a glass window.
 
I really like the stage and ringout ideas. Kind of like they had in some of those MK games where you got knocked through a wall or floor and ended up in a different stage. I don't think it would be so bad if getting ROed led to massive damage. People would still have to keep what there positioning is in mind. And you won't have as many fucking whiners about how ROs are "cheap". Fuck Hilde!!! Lol
 
I know Tekken has identifiable grabs, where you can tell based on which leading hand is grabbing with, and both DOA and Tekken have used a breaking through floors/walls idea for their stages.

I find that for combos, its relatively short combos are something I find appealing about SC, since I find Tekken is too juggle dependent and leave me feeling helpless most of the time. I think what we have now is good since I never feel like I'm being combo for 10 seconds before I have a chance to do anything.
 
Yeah I agree. The combo lengths on this game are just right to me. This isn't fucking Tekken or some bullshit MvC2. Also I agree with grabs being identifiable but I also believe everyone should have the same grab range. That last point is just me whining but I really hate how some people have a much longer grab range than other characters. Fuck Siegfried! Lol
 
Grabs are fine the way they are. Identifiable grabs would move standing guard one step closer to being the universal defensive option.
 
I like different grab range but it does urk me to see someone getting grabbed by Siegs extra 2' long invisible phantom hand.

As for the combos, I like the time length, but maybe if we had more strings that were designated for combo pieces that looked flashier it would be more appealing. I only mentioned this because a lot of 2D people bring this up as a common issue.

LOL no not more like Tekken, fuck that game! Though maybe some characters should have long combo chains that feel that way and not all. This game does an extremely good job of having every character feel diverse and that could easily be a gimik for one character. once again I mention the combos as a complaint I hear by others not myself. Just food for thought.

The visual distinction from grabs should be small, but i see no reason why a random element should ever exist in a fighting game.
 
The only thing i want to see redone is the aesthetics on the damage

lets see some scratches and bruises yo, a little bit of blood here and there

we are dealing with swords and nunchucks and shit
 
Some things I don't think are necessary such as the 3 sections of armour. Look at Yunsung, topless and with abs (looks at Lobo). I say just give them normal damage no matter what they wear.

Also for GI's 6G there's the regular impact and the Just Impact but for 4G it's only one regular impact. I think it maybe better for 4G if the regular one is like the one in SC2 and the Just Impact one is exactly as in SC4.

I do agree with IFB that there should be some stages with no RO but in addition to that I think there should be some stages with animate or non-animate objects (interactive or non-interactive) within the stage not just at the edge of the stage. For example, the arena in cave will consist of stalagmites they can be destroyed by tossing a foe at them or swinging a powerful blow at it.

Also I think Soul Charge should return but every time you soul charge, it will drain your soul gauge.
 
The only I think I like out of your entire post is more breakable walls.

I like SC over Tekken or SF because it's more Yomi than execution.

I'm neutral on ROs. I think a greater percentage of larger, walled stages would be better. More breakable walls is a fun alternative, too (though not a really good solution one as most good RO moves wallsplat and set up for RO).
 
what Nukleurfire said.

more JF´s? sure thing, why not. but let´s not go overboard. yomi > execution. let´s keep calibur that way.
one or two endless stages, no walls, no edge, could be good balance to some of the smaller RO-friendly stages.
but RO´s definitely should be kept the way they are in my opinion.
and grabs are absolutely not random. it´s a mindgame, and i like it that way.


a bit unrelated, but do anyone remeber in which match S-U played vs a Hilde, i think RTD´s, when he didn´t finish the third hit of Asura Dance, just to keep a wall from breaking?
that´s some cool stuff right there.
 
flask said:
a bit unrelated, but do anyone remeber in which match S-U played vs a Hilde, i think RTD´s, when he didn´t finish the third hit of Asura Dance, just to keep a wall from breaking?
that´s some cool stuff right there.
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No but that is pro as hell.

As for the mind games, most mind game in all fighting games are a sequence and a player must guess their way out, but before it's locked in you do have a few precious frames to try to recorrect. With grabs there's none. It feels pretty bad to lose a game because you couldn't guess your way out of a grab and there were no clues you could have used to figure it out. You can make a guess based on scenario but in the end it's still both players guessing, and that is not skill. I think the visual que should be very slight and maybe even late in the animation. Once again though random factors are bad for skill intensive games.
 
SupHy said:
The only thing i want to see redone is the aesthetics on the damage

lets see some scratches and bruises yo, a little bit of blood here and there

we are dealing with swords and nunchucks and shit
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Yeah, I'd rather see that than exploding socks.
 
Nukleurfire said:
Oh! You made my hand disappear! Oh wait no... I'm seeing my palm... There it is! On my face.

Since when is Yomi not skill?
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Yeah. IFB seems to be arguing for a more execution heavy game all around. Fighters should really be aiming for ease of access (JF's turn casual players off) with a focus on developing the mind game rather than testing your muscle memory and reflexes.
 
I disagree with everything brought up in the original post(largely for the reasons marginal mentions) save one; armor break should be revamped, either made more important or removed. At the moment its both superfluous AND aesthetically displeasing. Why does equipment fallen in the background flash white when the character it came from does a JF? Quoth the amy "I dont understand"
 
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