Setsuka/Ivy - Who's hardest to Master?

Who's harder to master?

  • Ivy

    Votes: 45 40.2%

  • Setsuka

    Votes: 67 59.8%
  • Total voters
    112
I cant believe Sets is winning this poll... are you serious? Just because she has JF's dont make her hard to play. Once you know the timing on them its like riding a bike, you dont forget them. Ivy is alot harder IMO, and Not only because of CS and SS. Doing those grabs is only the start. You need to learn the buffer frames of doing both grabs into attacks and block stuns (very strict).

Also the thing that i think brings Ivy above Sets is Coil stance CS, and SS, something that most people dont even know about it is very very hard, and its a MUST to know how to do in high level play. Why? If your in sword stance any good player will be buffering A grab breaks, if your in Whip they will buffer B breaks. Ivy has NO good lows besides SW3B, and her grabs are the only thing to make the opponent really want to duck. If you can do both CS and SS from coil from block stun they have to guess between 80 dmg or 100 dmg grabs.

How do you do the coil stance grab? Go into training mode in coil stance Hold block, Hold B+K, and while blocking an attack buffer 3214123691 A+G. If you jump you fail, if you dont grab right after you blocked the opponents attack you failed, if there is any slight pause you failed.

How that you have learned the timing for Coil stance CS/SS while blocking one move, remember its a different buffer timing for every attack and will change everytime, and for every character you fight. Does Sets JF timings change per character? No they dont.

Add the fact that your constantly changing stances, and certain moves force you into other stances, which you have to cancel by holding the right button, ivy is 4 characters in one, and takes extremly fast and unforgiving inputs.

Sets is NOT on Ivy's level on difficulty im sorry to say.
 
I haven't played a lot with either Ivy or Setsuka but in practice i've got Sets's jfs quite fast.
I tried iCS and iSS for half an hour and got iCS once.
Add her tons of different stance shifts and you have the character thats in my opinion the hardest to master.

Even though i know that jfs get a lot harder in combos, because the buffering in the recovery of the previous moves seems to distort the frame windows for the jf(At least i've made that experience with Taki), and Sets relies strongly on those, i still think Ivy is harder to master.

On the other hand i suppose Ivy is much stronger and rewarding. So if you'd ask me which of both i'd main, i'd say Ivy.

I have to put Taki in here too.
If you mess up A:6 as a punisher you get:
Tadah! An A! with 8 damage instead of an i10 A:6 with 34 damage and knockdown. Quite devastating.
And her movement system is very complex. Very. Fake HO for example if you don't time it to your opponent's attack almost like a GI, you will get hit.
 
FleshMasher said:
On the other hand i suppose Ivy is much stronger and rewarding. So if you'd ask me which of both i'd main, i'd say Ivy.
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You got that completly wrong. Ivy's Risk Vs. Reward is terrible.

Take her 5-Hit: If you mess up 1 input, you lost out on push back, and 30 damage, and knock Down, making the move unsafe on HIT. When you finally go get it, it's still unsafe on Block, and pushback on the attack protects you from MAYBE Talim. For what.... the potential of 24 extra damage? Yeah...

Ivy's move list has 2 attacks that leave her + on frames as well. SW FC3B, and CL 6AK. the 2nd one though... is a High High String, so... not so worth it. If you play Ivy, you need to get used to being at disadvantage ALL the time, and having to bait your opponent into things to get an attack off based on her stances.
If you are going for WORK reward, use Setsuka. She is easier to play with the Basics, and Punish with, and her basics deal more damage.
 
could you take into account the amount of good ivys vs good sets, id say theres more ivys by far. is ivy just more popular or easier ? i dont know, just a thought.
 
ZDamned said:
You got that completly wrong. Ivy's Risk Vs. Reward is terrible.

Take her 5-Hit: If you mess up 1 input, you lost out on push back, and 30 damage, and knock Down, making the move unsafe on HIT. When you finally go get it, it's still unsafe on Block, and pushback on the attack protects you from MAYBE Talim. For what.... the potential of 24 extra damage? Yeah...

Ivy's move list has 2 attacks that leave her + on frames as well. SW FC3B, and CL 6AK. the 2nd one though... is a High High String, so... not so worth it. If you play Ivy, you need to get used to being at disadvantage ALL the time, and having to bait your opponent into things to get an attack off based on her stances.
If you are going for WORK reward, use Setsuka. She is easier to play with the Basics, and Punish with, and her basics deal more damage.
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That was a rather subjective opinion on my part i just felt that if you get Ivy's hard moves and stance changes right you are going to kick more ass than with Setsuka once you have mastered her.
Subjective because i have been beaten more often and more painful by Ivys compared to Setsukas.
Which of course is kinda biased because of what pineapplejuice said about "Good Ivy/Setsuka Ratio".
And because Ivy seems to be a way worse match up for Taki(my main) than Setsuka. At least i think she is.
 
FleshMasher said:
That was a rather subjective opinion on my part i just felt that if you get Ivy's hard moves and stance changes right you are going to kick more ass than with Setsuka once you have mastered her.
Subjective because i have been beaten more often and more painful by Ivys compared to Setsukas.
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I'm not calling you out on your opinion, nor am I saying your opinion is invalid, I probably should have worded my reply differently, but it is easy to see what each character has when their basic attacks connect. Ivy's Risk is MUCH higher than Setsuka's for using advanced attacks. If CS or SS is Ducked, you just ate a heavy hit. If 214B is blocked, you are out 30% of your HP EASY. But those are technically Staple moves that she needs to use all the time. Setsuka's staple attacks are not as dangerous to use.
 
Taki isn't even that hard to master. Just figure out good interupts and combos. Try to chain a bunch of Taki's billion hit combos and ur set. But i feel that setsuka might be a little harder to master JUST (get it?) becuz of all of her justs. but for u to be able to chain combos...Ivy is harder. Especially her uber grabs!!!
 
sed to think Ivy's grabs were impossible, but then I realized that CS is basically just Setsuka's umbrella plus two more inputs. I just pretend I'm doing the Jf Umbrella, press 91 A+G and there you go. SS would be same thing but pretend you're on the player 2 side. As for iCS, yeah, you do gotta practice it, but linking Setsuka's just frame combos isn't a walk in the park. Just because you can do it in practice doesn't mean you can automatically set it up on a moving opponent.
 
I think there are more Ivy players online because it's pretty easy to play her decently with limited practice...
Plus, it is noob-friendly if you mostly have to chain combos non-stop...just repeat what you practiced, just like with Mitsurugi. No need for reaction. Action is generally enough...
And simple imputs are always helpful, and even more so online.

Scrubby-Setsuka doesn't go very far with her typical scrub-bread and scrub-butter : bA and 2A+B,22A+B,A.

I want to rant about online-Ivy being just as retard-friendly as Mitsurugi, but this thread is about mastering a character's potential. Not how easy or difficult it is to win with at whatever level.

DarkMessiah said:
for some reason i find i do sets jf umbrella more in matches than practice
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I forgot why, but because of how the buffer works, it's much easier to do the JF version in a combo or after an attack. So it might be the reason.
 
Plume said:
Scrubby-Setsuka doesn't go very far with her typical scrub-bread and scrub-butter : bA and 2A+B,22A+B,A.

I want to rant about online-Ivy being just as retard-friendly as Mitsurugi, but this thread is about mastering a character's potential. Not how easy or difficult it is to win with at whatever level.
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You should fight my scrub Sets. Ask Bootieclap, I beat him twice in sandbag to sandbag spam fight. He is pro at the spam.
 
all in all i say they are both comparatively easy to use and both rewarding in their own ways and that in all reality rock is the hardest to master
 
setsuka is imposible to master ive seen people come close but not fully and if anyone does they will be GOD
 
ZDamned said:
I'm not calling you out on your opinion, nor am I saying your opinion is invalid, I probably should have worded my reply differently, but it is easy to see what each character has when their basic attacks connect. Ivy's Risk is MUCH higher than Setsuka's for using advanced attacks. If CS or SS is Ducked, you just ate a heavy hit. If 214B is blocked, you are out 30% of your HP EASY. But those are technically Staple moves that she needs to use all the time. Setsuka's staple attacks are not as dangerous to use.
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I have to disagree with you there. Any ducked throw in general will be punished if your opponent is on point, so using CS/SS as an excuse that Ivy has more risk than Setsuka is something I feel is invalid as it applies to all throw attempts. In fact, plenty of Setsuka's staple moves and basics *ARE* dangerous to use (Umbrella, bA, 1A, etc). Not only that, but her basics also require acute hit confirmation, buffering of just frames, extremely small windows, and focus on camera issues.
 
SC4_Fanatic said:
Taki isn't even that hard to master. Just figure out good interupts and combos. Try to chain a bunch of Taki's billion hit combos and ur set. But i feel that setsuka might be a little harder to master JUST (get it?) becuz of all of her justs. but for u to be able to chain combos...Ivy is harder. Especially her uber grabs!!!
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So i guess you have mastered Taki? Right?
PS.: Most of her so called "million hit combos" are shakeable. Some also require just frames. Or decent use of PORC.
PPS.: She also needs just frames to effectively punish and interrupt (A:6) and for tech traps :3::3:_:9::9::A:::B:::B:::B:
 
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