Siegfried Q&A / General Discussion

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ChaosK, you are right about it being unfair to single out this SA when it comes to complaining. However, I don't feel that ANY soul arena should have people whining about their character. IMO if you want to complain about how low tier your main is or whatever, you should either adapt to the changes or switch characters. I think this got singled out because it is an active SA with people always posting unlike the Xiba SA where it is pretty much me and a few others who help new guys and don't discuss theory as often. I think It is understandable for Jim to be irritated with the people who say their character is unviable or bad or not SC1-4 Sieg (you know who you are).
 
Forgive my spelling and grammar:

not trying to offend anyone here though.
first of all, "bitching" is such an over generalized and biased term for what really happens here. the reality is Siegfried has flaws, and its hard enough to deal with them without people ramming them down our throat. Plus how are we even supposed to know how to handle the bad matchups, or the risks of whiffing if we dont talk about them? If thats considered bitching, then people should just gtfo and stop reading - i don't even remember the last time i ever even talked to a non-siegfried player about anything siegfried related at all because at the first signs of pointing out his flaws, somehow im automatically bitching - and all i get in return is universally ignorant statements about how 3B is OP, and how iagA is unstoppable. So do tell me also, if i never even bother mentioning siegfried to anyone, how can i be bitching at all? And god forbid if i mention anything i liked in the past game at all. As for the "whining about sieg being low tier thing" i dont even know where people are getting this from. i've said it before and i've said it again - siegfried is in the lower half of mid tier, but even saying that he is still mid tier, and is still capable of defeating all the characters in this game. he just has more unfavorable matchups than favorable ones, and thats the reality of it. that doesnt make him unviable as a character, and im pretty sure i've maintained for quite some time now that despite his flaws, siegfried is still definitely viable.

Also we have no problem adapting to the flaws of our character - thats part of the game; but alot of siegfrieds whiffing isses, while frequent, arent consistent enough to adapt to and the reality is that we need to rely on alot of those shaky tools in order to play him properly - there are some things you can do to try to avoid them but reality is whiffing happens, you have no idea when it will, and when it does, unless you're very lucky, you're going to get punished very hard for making the right decision - it definitely alters the outcomes of a match. this isnt a "let's vouge for SCIV" issue or a "SCV has terrible balance" issue - its a "poor design" issue - i never stated anywhere that i have a problem with SCV.

If you dont wanna offend anyone then take this to PM's with everyone else - we've dealt with criticism since even before the game was released, and enough is enough. we dont go out of our way to "bitch" about siegfried, we just discuss strats here, so just leave us alone already. this entire conversation, along with everything in it isnt productive, and i dont think it belongs in the soul arena of all places. Maybe this wasnt you're intention with this message - so this isnt directed directly at you, but dont people have anything better to do than bash the Soul Arena and gossip? whats more is most of this "bitching" stuff doesnt even happen in the SA unlike what has been said before - we are here to help people and to make life as a siegfried player easier, and that's all we want to keep doing. why do you gotta slander our reputation with shit like this?


But maybe i should overhaul the SA so its nothing but ranting about how iagA and TREE BEE are SOO OPEE. yes perhaps that is what the SA needs to make people better Siegfried players, instead of actually teaching him to adapt and deal with his weaknesses. if we ignore them, maybe they'll just go away.


You are implying that I implied certain things with that last post. Der made a post about Sieg players trapped in the SCIV mindset and I gave him the best piece of evidence I could find at the time. Things in that post such as movement attack changes, frame changes, GI changes, wake up changes, MOVESET CHANGES (COUGH), are all extremely reminiscent of the previous installment. Hell, even your proposal for JG changes reeks of SCIV influence. I'm not saying we should keep dumb stuff like whiffs and glitches in, everyone here can agree that those need to be fixed. Things changed because of the system change. I'm not saying your post is shitty and dumb and that you have no one's interests in mind. No need to get so indignant, this isn't some sanctuary you have to protect.
My post in that thread wasnt at all coming from a Siegfried player mindset - i gave the best objective suggestions i could, and siegfried had no influence over that. I could care less anymore.


Oh an im sorry, is having extended movesets a bad thing? I dont see how it can harm the game any - whats more is project soul specifically said they intended to simplify movesets in this game, and then rebuild them as the game continues to progress. From that perspective i dont see how the hell you get SCIV mindset from that. If nothing else it would also add more variation to the game - unless you think we should all just pick pyrrha all day long.

As for the JG changes, thats not a SCIV mindset either - because JG is a good tool and gives great rewards upon execution I simply figured that it should have a consequence instead of being able to optionselect just guard and be "safe". And as a player i'd also like to be able to take full advantage of my reaction capabilities from guard instead of being limited by a cooldown. People are always talking about how in SCV you have to commit to things, well here's another thing you have to commit to, which IMO is the complete opposite of SCIV where you had step G and all that bullshit. If nothing else it would force people to think more both on offense and defense.

Do you think that making attacks from quickstep take 10 extra frames is a good feature? cause i dont. i would rather have an instant 8wayrun attack available from a double tap input that is instinctive without having to go through some meaningless execution barrier to do so. we can already cancel step into attacks anyways, what difference would this make?

as for the frame changes, im sorry, i believe that risk/reward is a two way street. it has nothing to do with SCIV. maybe you can explain to me for example, why for example, cervantes 3B is as powerful as it is, but is only -13 on block? does that seem like balanced risk/reward to you? and if you're gonna whiff something on oki that doesnt hit grounded, why shouldnt i be able to get up and punish you for it? seems fair to me to capitalize on the opponents bad read/stupidity - really its an idea thats implemented just about everywhere else in the game.

And for the rest, the only things i asked are that i get + frames for CH 2K's, that 2A's become a little bit more - on block, and that launchers become 1 frame faster so that they become a more viable option for reppeling head on attacks at disadvantage when the opponent gets too greedy. again none of these things are gamebreaking at all, they just force people to do a little more thinking, on both sides. I never said anything like "buff/nerf specific character" and such was never implied.

And im sorry that i want the grapple break system to be cut and dry. so shoot me. why should my opponent get frame advantage for me guessing right and on time/early at that? Same goes for the clash system i suggested.

as for the GI, that was thrown in simply because i liked the feature to be available. it hardly even effects gameplay, since you can just JG unblockables anyways.

and you wanna know why i say CE's shouldnt have invincibility frames? the issue isnt that oki is too weak, its that they have INVINCIBILITY FRAMES. take those away and we'll definitely see people getting hit out of them more often. its common sense. unless you like having wakeup CE's?

As for the lower damage, i specifically said not as low as SCIV. But as it is now i personally believe its too high, and i'd rather keep my game as "SOUL CALIBUR" instead of Tekken Calibur. If i wanted to play tekken i would play tekken.

Not only am I tired of hearing about how Siegfried players bitch when we do nothing of the sort, and am tired of recieving heat because we've dealt with it since day one, I also took that quote as a personal attack on me - you've stated this wasnt you're intention already, but maybe you should have specified earlier. I'm just tired of people telling me how my character is and how i should use him when they dont even use him themselves. Did it ever occur to anyone that maybe, just maybe, WE ACTUALLY KNOW A THING OR TWO ABOUT OUR OWN CHARACTER?

but enough of this for now - i think this has gone more than far enough, more than overboard. im locking this thread temporarily for a while until this blows over. this isnt anything that belongs in a soul arena - its a personal issue between players, and it belongs in PM's.

EDIT: and if anybody thinks its that easy to just switch characters and playstyles at the drop of a hat, then why dont they all pick up Siegfried and show us how its done?
 
Alright, so everyone, back to business as usual.

Any general gameplay discussion, questions or general tips and strategy information are gladly welcomed here.

Anything not relating to gameplay however, should be shared here.

Anything else can be taken to PM's. I don't want to see the previous topic revived.
 
Okay I usually don't do this. But LOL at telling people to keep all of this out of the SA, then writing the longest post known to man, which you probably should've PMed to whoever you were addressing(like you told those people to do), then locking the thread so there was no response.

I saw no reason for anyone to get offended and carry this on in the first place. But of course people want to get defensive and carry on drama. Which just leads to more drama and then more on top of that. I'm going to need people to stop getting worked up over words and responding in kind. If you wanna prove someone wrong do it through action and shut them the hell up. We've seen several people doing that lately in this community (Sandman being one of them) so let's follow that example instead of going into this forum online drama.

Okay kids back to it. Play nice now...
 
longest post known to man and subsequent thread lock

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