thenewperson
Fighter
Could be a heavily nerfed JG.
Soul Calibur 6: Technical Gameplay discussion
- Thread starter Age_of_Truth
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- soulcalibur6
Could be a heavily nerfed JG.
Windstar
[13] Hero
Can't be just guard, all cases of the flash guard show guard stun and push back. Just Guards from SC5 never had push back.
Freyne
[05] Battler
How does Guard Impact exactly work and how you can deal with it in SC VI? Anyone has access to demo? What we know.
1. There is only one Guard Impact (6+G)
2. GI works on:
- lows
- mids
- highs
- throws
3. GI doesn't work on:
- guard breaks
- unblockables
- reversal edge
4. GI can be countered by (everything in 3. and):
- another Guard Impact
- waiting it out
5. GI doesn't use meter but costs Guard Gauge (you can use up to 5 before depleting it)
6. GI returns more Guard Gauge than it consumes
7. GI window is pretty long
8. You can cancel basic attacks like in SC2 to bait GI
1. There is only one Guard Impact (6+G)
2. GI works on:
- lows
- mids
- highs
- throws
3. GI doesn't work on:
- guard breaks
- unblockables
- reversal edge
4. GI can be countered by (everything in 3. and):
- another Guard Impact
- waiting it out
5. GI doesn't use meter but costs Guard Gauge (you can use up to 5 before depleting it)
6. GI returns more Guard Gauge than it consumes
7. GI window is pretty long
8. You can cancel basic attacks like in SC2 to bait GI
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- Admin
- #44
Party Wolf
Administrator
6G
Yes
Just Impact was when you GI'd at the last second in SC4 and SC3. This is more like Just Guard from SC5 without any frame data alterations. You just press the guard button as late as possible to gain meter and not take chip damage.
Freyne
[05] Battler
Oops fixed
That's great to hear!
Got it thanks for clarification.
Signia
[13] Hero
When you get GI'd, you can also RE as well as GI. This will catch delayed attacks. kG into step or A+B will be better options than doing other slow, safe damaging moves like in previous games to beat reGI/RE.
GIs have three different animations on the one that gets GI'd, corresponding to three different windows. All three can be seen in this video:
1:58 - early GI, fall on your butt animation. 3B hits within the GI window.
4:24 - middle GI, blowback animation. 3B is buffered but blocked.
9:03 - latest GI, body turn animation. Opponent visibly ducks into the 3B, it was not within the window at all. I think Yoshimitsu even says "late!"
Yoshimitsu's 3B feels a tiny bit slower than the old 3B, which was i17 in SCV, so I'd guess it's either i18 or i19 in this game. So, middle GI gives 17 frames or less. I could have sworn I had a buffered Sophie 236B blocked after a GI, that must have been the shortest window. So, I would guess thatearly GI is +13, middle GI is +17, and late GI is +21 had my predictions backwards: early GI +21, middle GI is +17, and late GI is +13
Pretty annoying that I only get a launch on late GI, but that's probably how it should be. The panic about long lasting GIs is unfounded, middle GIs aren't that threatening, and late GIs hardly give you any real advantage. If you get a late GI, the opponent can still early GI you back, and you only have a tiny window of opportunity to attack so they'll know the timing. However, it's dangerous for the opponent to reGI since you're unlikely to attack with AA damage and take the risk. Unrewarding for you, and dangerous for the opponent, so what we'll see most commonly after late GIs are returns to a close range neutral game.
GIs have three different animations on the one that gets GI'd, corresponding to three different windows. All three can be seen in this video:
1:58 - early GI, fall on your butt animation. 3B hits within the GI window.
4:24 - middle GI, blowback animation. 3B is buffered but blocked.
9:03 - latest GI, body turn animation. Opponent visibly ducks into the 3B, it was not within the window at all. I think Yoshimitsu even says "late!"
Yoshimitsu's 3B feels a tiny bit slower than the old 3B, which was i17 in SCV, so I'd guess it's either i18 or i19 in this game. So, middle GI gives 17 frames or less. I could have sworn I had a buffered Sophie 236B blocked after a GI, that must have been the shortest window. So, I would guess that
Pretty annoying that I only get a launch on late GI, but that's probably how it should be. The panic about long lasting GIs is unfounded, middle GIs aren't that threatening, and late GIs hardly give you any real advantage. If you get a late GI, the opponent can still early GI you back, and you only have a tiny window of opportunity to attack so they'll know the timing. However, it's dangerous for the opponent to reGI since you're unlikely to attack with AA damage and take the risk. Unrewarding for you, and dangerous for the opponent, so what we'll see most commonly after late GIs are returns to a close range neutral game.
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ShenChan
[11] Champion
Nice write up on GI.
Regarding above, you do mean the reverse in the time stamps, don't you?
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Frayhua
[14] Master
JG is in SCVI, but doesn't eliminate the block stun like SCV. It just protects you from guard damage & chip damage and gives you little meter.
JG no longer eliminating the Block Stun
https://twitter.com/Frayhua/status/1009100688817840129
The function is similar to a JG in SCV.
https://twitter.com/KingTomahawk/status/1007255718020280320
thenewperson
Fighter
Thanks, it's pretty much what I was hoping they'd leave JG as.
Niwona
Let The Rhythm Hit 'Em
How are they activating JG? It seems like it's based on releasing the button? Because it looks lile in that gif that they were in Guard way before the move connected.
Frayhua
[14] Master
By releasing Guard & then tapping Guard at the right time before the next move connents.
Signia
[13] Hero
The time stamps are correct. They're "late" and "early" in the GI activation window, not the time in the video.
Ah, I got my predictions backwards. They said early GI would give you less than middle and late, I meant "early GI +21, middle GI is +17, and late GI is +13." Earlier is better.
Also I read somewhere that successful GI gives meter sometimes. Looking at 4:45 and the other GIs, it's early GI that gives you meter, a little bit less than a quarter (we can also see teching giving a small amount of meter like in SCV).
No, SC6 "JG" is just pressing guard near the last moment before getting hit. For this reason, I call it a "JD" as in the Just Defend from Garou and some other fighting games, as the animation and input is similar. It's last-moment-guarding, not like SCV JG.
Guard damage reduction is not confirmed, the people who are saying that did not do the necessary testing. The only known effect right now is removing chip damage. It is confirmed that it does not give meter or reduce blockstun or pushback.
Guaranteed chip will be something that people will go for, especially with Geralt and when any character is in soul charge. Yoshimitsu 44bA will do a non-trivial amount of chip, for example. Stopping Taki chip will be harder, as the moves come at you fast. It seems like it'll be a bit of an execution test, but maybe it'll distract some opponents mentally preparing to JD to avoid chip.
ShenChan
[11] Champion
Yea, I meant it as activation window. I looked through the time stamps you listed and it seems like the more "accurate" you are with GI (early active frames of GI), the lesser advantage it gives (the 9 min mark where you GI-ed 2 times).
Anyway, let's see if anyone finds out more at CEO this week.
- Admin
- #54
Party Wolf
Administrator
Who needs to learn GI window frames when your Kilik 4B lethal hits after a GI =D
Frayhua
[14] Master
The whole series of 4A+BBB combos. Kilik's 4A+B has never been more useful.
Signia
[13] Hero
I know this isn't serious but I want to also point out that the GI window will also affect slow options, as it will tell you whether or not they can step them after being GI'd. For example, if 4B is i26 like in SCIV, then the opponent won't be able to step it after an early GI, though that's also when you can probably get 3B within the window. On a middle GI, unless it's +19 (26-19=7) which I highly doubt since Yoshi 3B didn't fit within it, they'll be able to step it, unless of course stepping linear moves is more than 8 frames in this game or that 4B was made less linear or if it's faster -- lots of assumptions but the point is, early/middle/late GI will usually affect your options, whether you want to learn the exact frames or just learn what works is up to you. In any case, this complicates things and I wouldn't go in assuming you can simplify it and still max out your post-GI r/r.
Because slow post-GI options got such a big buff is exactly why stepping after getting GI'd will be more common, too. I might even attack from late GI disadvantage sometimes if it's as low as I think it is and the opponent is heavily delaying their attack like I think they will want to.
Frayhua
[14] Master
SCVI's Kilik's 4B is his 46B from SCIV and it was a 13 frame move. It Lethal Hits when the opponent tries to GI back.
Niwona
Let The Rhythm Hit 'Em
Given the GI window is so big, is there just frame chicken in this game?
- Admin
- #59
Party Wolf
Administrator
Signia
[13] Hero
Oh. Well, that's still good reasoning about slow moves post-GI.