Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Leonhart

[10] Knight
I have to strongly disagree with that, I’m D5 with Sophitia and my E1 Zasalamel has struggled to follow suit because of the plethora of G ranks he gets paired with.
Even yesterday while playing my D5 Sophitia got about 10 G rank matches in the space of 2 hours play.

I usually quit after the first match as you don’t level up when fighting them and a lot of the time they never expose you to tech traps, combos, strategic attack patterns like seasoned players do.
and that gets me more annoyed than getting my shit pushed in my B Ranks.

FIX the match making PLEASE!
I'm not denying there are those who have more legitimate reasons for not rematching. However, it really isn't possible to judge someones abilities based off a single match. So much can go wrong, completely throwing off impressions.
 

Heniek

[10] Knight
Not rematching is being a bad sport most of the time. The only reason I can see for not rematching is either because of bad connection (or someone setting resolution scaling on 200), opponent clearly not giving a fluff (Ever used the G button? Guess not), or when you are a beginner and getting obliterated (tho I would still pick another one). Especially since ranked as a whole cannot be treated seriously. Even tho it is nice to sit on no.1 it's still rather meaningless and ranked as a whole should be revamped mostly because of its grind over skill nature
 

Leonhart

[10] Knight
I play ranked solely because the casual rooms are painfully few and always filled with the same lot. Plus, waiting time is cut down considerably (mostly). I care nothing for the leveling.
 

damn-I-Suck

[12] Conqueror
Players who don't rematch know they're probably gonna lose, which seems to be a general problem. Some kids are just SO afraid of loosing that they refuse to actually spend some time with their opponent, beyond a single match. It's not like there's an abundance of people on ranked and still many choose to do a hit-and-run when faced with threatening odds. It's childish, feeble and it dilutes the entire mode. It also happens when higher ranked players win, as if they're assuming you can't even give them a challenge. It's impudent high-horse dickery on a grand scale and highly off-putting.
You assume all these things about the player on the other end without knowing anything. If the connection isn't rock solid, I won't rematch, win lose or draw. If I find the their CAS to be ugly, have a malfested voice, I won't rematch. If it's a mirror match, I won't rematch because I hate them. If they troll during the match, no rematch.

I played the ugliest CAS zas you would ever see with the dumb ass annoying malfested voice. This player literally just did RE and CE, NOTHING ELSE. I was stupid enough to fall for it the first round, but then I just killed him with the same break attack over and over. No adapting whatsoever from the other end. He challenged me to a rematch. Why would I?

Or maybe, just maybe, you flat out didn't enjoy playing them, for whatever reason.

Why is everyone so quick to be offended these days? Lighten up
 

Heniek

[10] Knight
You assume all these things about the player on the other end without knowing anything. If the connection isn't rock solid, I won't rematch, win lose or draw. If I find the their CAS to be ugly, have a malfested voice, I won't rematch. If it's a mirror match, I won't rematch because I hate them. If they troll during the match, no rematch.

I played the ugliest CAS zas you would ever see with the dumb ass annoying malfested voice. This player literally just did RE and CE, NOTHING ELSE. I was stupid enough to fall for it the first round, but then I just killed him with the same break attack over and over. No adapting whatsoever from the other end. He challenged me to a rematch. Why would I?

Or maybe, just maybe, you flat out didn't enjoy playing them, for whatever reason.

Why is everyone so quick to be offended these days? Lighten up
It reminds me of that dude on Steam which uses Azwel automaton customs with giant apple for breasts in the skin colour to fake it all to be a nude body, gives them some sci-fi name, sets the resolution scaling to 200(or has a potato PC) so the game runs in like 10-15fps and spams RE and CE (not forgetting about dumb malfested voice of course) I can't fathom how anyone can find enjoyment in such an experience...
 

Leonhart

[10] Knight
You assume all these things about the player on the other end without knowing anything. If the connection isn't rock solid, I won't rematch, win lose or draw. If I find the their CAS to be ugly, have a malfested voice, I won't rematch. If it's a mirror match, I won't rematch because I hate them. If they troll during the match, no rematch.

I played the ugliest CAS zas you would ever see with the dumb ass annoying malfested voice. This player literally just did RE and CE, NOTHING ELSE. I was stupid enough to fall for it the first round, but then I just killed him with the same break attack over and over. No adapting whatsoever from the other end. He challenged me to a rematch. Why would I?

Or maybe, just maybe, you flat out didn't enjoy playing them, for whatever reason.

Why is everyone so quick to be offended these days? Lighten up
As stated above, I'm not denying there are those who have more legitimate reasons for not rematching, and there are obvious exceptions when opponents are mindless mashers, or just trolling. But in my experience excruciatingly many players never rematch although you're a decent matchup, with techy, even fights. If they lose, they're more likely to rematch and as soon as they win, they scram. It's hard not to draw conclusions when it's so common.
 

Apoc Revolution

[10] Knight
I'm not denying there are those who have more legitimate reasons for not rematching. However, it really isn't possible to judge someones abilities based off a single match. So much can go wrong, completely throwing off impressions.
That is only true if you're fighting someone who knows what they're doing. If I'm fighting a button mashing noob who doesn't even know how to guard or sidestep, then I already know in the first round of the match that they're never going to beat me. Then there are players who can at least do a few basic combo's and know how to guard certain attacks, but the skill gap is so wide that it doesn't matter. They get easily overwhelmed, lack match-up knowledge and fail to adapt most of the time. Online multiplayer is an ocean filled with incompetent players. It's true, the vast majority of players aren't a challenge for me whatsoever so I'm not going to waste my time rematching them. There is nothing for me to learn and I only get +1 point for beating them. I don't care if you or other people find that arrogant, I'm playing the game because I myself am trying to have fun. For me, it's almost pointless to even play the game sometimes.
 

SSfox

[14] Master
Personally i only don't rematch if the first match was laggy/unplayable, if it was a super ugly CaS i may not rematch too (depend on the level of ugliness), but so far those were quite rare. As for Mirrors i don't like them but you gotta play them if you wanna learn how to handle them.

Oh of course, if i met someone who don't rematch after he win, and then we meet again and i win, it's likely i don't rematch him either, it's always funny to see those kind of winquitter wanting a rematch very fast when they loose, i make them wait few seconds then i quit, You like to winquit, then enjoy being winquitted haha LOL
 

HackNslash

[07] Duelist
That is only true if you're fighting someone who knows what they're doing. If I'm fighting a button mashing noob who doesn't even know how to guard or sidestep, then I already know in the first round of the match that they're never going to beat me. Then there are players who can at least do a few basic combo's and know how to guard certain attacks, but the skill gap is so wide that it doesn't matter. They get easily overwhelmed, lack match-up knowledge and fail to adapt most of the time. Online multiplayer is an ocean filled with incompetent players. It's true, the vast majority of players aren't a challenge for me whatsoever so I'm not going to waste my time rematching them. There is nothing for me to learn and I only get +1 point for beating them. I don't care if you or other people find that arrogant, I'm playing the game because I myself am trying to have fun. For me, it's almost pointless to even play the game sometimes.
Speaking honestly though Raphael forces you to adapt in ways that players are quite use to (kinda like how Ivy is unique to fight against)

You play so well with that meta you have to know the match up as if one IS a Raphael player in order to take advantage.
One or two online matches isn’t enough time to comprehend all of that.

And Most casual players aren’t committed to that type of challenge, let alone understand it when you incorporate frame data.

So I understand your reasons but I also understand the reality of SC6s general interest amongst the FGC, with the game’s current skill pool.

I’d say give it time characters even today are showing what their capable of (which had a difference in opinion a few months back) and with the incoming patch (that has me a little nervous not gonna lie).
You could be dealing with buff Groh and better short range Mina in the near future...
 

Crash X

[13] Hero
There’s only a few things that would ever prevent me from rematching someone in Ranked: A constantly terrible connection with the other player, they’re just beginners (fresh meat for the grill), or it’s just jank with the CAS getting in the way.

Other than that, I usually will go for a rematch. Be it a win, loss, or against a character I don’t enjoy fighting against (like Sophitia or Kilik). After all, it could give me a chance to sharpen my matchup knowledge against the cast.
 

Ave

[12] Conqueror
the only time i ever dont rematch is when the connection sucks

i dont mind rematching new players because i think it’s a good thing to help them learn how to deal with higher level opponents. If they wanna rematch it would be dumb of me not to help them get better.

i dont mind rematching trolls either cuz i sort of challenge myself to learn their tactics and get around them. i’m pretty good at dealing with spammy voldos now
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
Groh and the whole Awal Organisation with their secret society shtick were invented specifically as a lore-friendly supporting cast to CaS-centric story modes, so I believe Grow will indeed stick as a franchise regular for as long as people continue to like CaS, so basically until the end of times.
Yes, I agree--although I wouldn't say it's so much about CaS; the truth of the matter is that, with the exception of the SCV exclusives and guest characters, pretty much anybody who makes it on to the main roster returns on occasion in a later game. Necrid is the one exception to date, and even there, we can't be certain how much of that was about how poorly he was received and how much was that he was part of the bizarre licensing arrangement to get Spawn into SCII.

But you've identified something there which I think has gone largely unremarked upon: Azwel and Groh are, as you say, the supporting cast to the custom character based mode (Libra of Soul), and this is only the second time we've seen such a mode in the series: the last time was in SCII:CE with Chronicles of the Sword. In many respects the way the story is handled for both is similar: each seems to tell an almost self-contained story that technically you can make jive with the other story-fixated modes in the game in a rough sort of way (if you're not to picky about continuity), but which almost seems to be taking place in its own separate world. 14 of the 17 "bonus" characters in SCIII come from Chronicles of the Soul and those 14 are the ones that were never seen in a game before and never heard from again (well, with their styles anyway; some of them show up sporadically as CaS opponents sporting someone else's style in story modes for later games, but they are notably the bonus characters that didn't even make the cut for SCIII:AE, whereas the three bonus characters who did--Amy, Li Long, an Hwang--were already established in the series lore).

In some respects, Azwel and Groh function like those 14 characters--they are oddball fits in terms of aesthetics and they are the stars of that one mode but feel tacked on to the main story / modes. But in other respects they are much more like standard characters: they have full movesets and their own narratives in the game's more conventional story mode (Soul Chronicle) and they are selectable from their own cells in the roster menu in all modes, as opposed to being identified as bonus characters and being selectable from a pulldown menu in just some modes. All of which is to say I don't expect they will serve in a CaS mode in the next game (if there even is one; those tend to be a rarity across the franchise) but I think we still will see them return to the main roster in at least some future games.

The problem with a big heavy shield character is that realistically they should perform autoGIs by just staying in neutral against most moves, otherwise what's the damn point if you simply allow enemy attacks to clip right through a big giant shield? Sophitia and other Greeks only work because their shields are tiny, so it is believable for people to accept they have to block each individual attack by moving their shields in a proper blocking position manually every time. Big shields are supposed to be wielded in a defensive position by default at all times, covering 90% of front attacks. Big shield wielders are also supposed to be able to attack while blocking. Frankly I have no idea how to make all those things possible in a SoulCalibur game while maintaining any kind of realism.
Someone previously suggested to make it a retractable big shield for it to make sense, but at that point we are back into anime territory, so again, what's the point? Azwel already has a big retractable shield that aGIs attacks left and right whenever deployed. I doubt Azwel is what pro-realism people want.
Agreed here as well: you've identified some obvious problems that make any kind of particularly large shield problematic in terms of the Soul Calibur formula. However, there are middle ground options. I believe that Ciruxxx might have been imagining something as large as a scutum (the particularly tall square shields capable of protecting much of the body employed by Roman legionaries) or at least something similarly shaped and only a bit smaller. However, these shields would have been rarely used in personal combat at any point in history, being far too unwieldy for that purpose (they were meant to be used in formation to form shield walls). There is a kind of hybrid of this style and a shield more suited to personal fighting--the kite shield. It was about 50-70% of the height of a man at the era in which it arose (early-to-mid Middle Ages), but had a rounded top and tapered bottom; it was meant as a compromise on something that would be effective for both formation fighting and a chaotic melee. However, I think the best fit would be a heater shield, which realistically is the only shield that would be used with a mace anyway, in terms of when they were employed and the range of motion that is required for the mace to be effective. Also, to whatever small extent one cares about the armaments not being too anachronistic to the era that SC is said to take place in, the heater shield is the only option that would have seen at least a little bit of usage by the seventeenth century.

With a heater shield and mace, one could get just give a couple more auto-GI moves than typically exist for sword and shield characters and otherwise animate around clipping issues--I think? It's still an issue, but feasible, I expect. Mind you, this is Ciruxxx's "historical style I'd like to see" more so than mine, but deconstructing it, I think it's viable in terms of basic mechanics. The reason I suspect it would never happen is that it's just not quick enough; the SC devs have moved more and more towards faster and flashier play, and a character emphasizing knightly / medieval-ish combat techniques is just not a perfect fit. Though given what the devs have figured out with a wide variety of anachronistic weapons, I wouldn't say impossible to find a a sweet spot between this style and Soul Calibur mechanics. I'd certainly take it over anyone who levitates, teleports, summons weapons from mid-air, and throws magical projectiles at this point.
 
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Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
I think I must me dead in the middle of this issue. Like some, I think a rematch is just a simple courtesy and matter of basic civility, which is important for maintaining a community and enhancing the chances of keeping this game going and (hopefully) profitable enough that we get more content. It also just reduces the amount of time I spend overall waiting on matches, vs. playing (which thankfully is pretty trivial this time around, but still). I do make exceptions in two scenarios though:
  1. Any lag sufficient to cause significant stuttering is an automatic opt-out for the rematch.
  2. While I generally never factor relative skill level into my decision (I either have a nice close match or else I stand to learn something or help someone else learn), there are some scrub-ish habits that will cause me to deny a rematch: if 80% of their play-style is spamming RE, then they can just take their one humiliating defeat and live with it; a second game isn't going to go any better for them and it's not going to be anything but paint by numbers for me--which is far less like something resembling a real match than even playing a G5. I call those players "dedicated scrubs"--people who are so obsessed with their wins that have leveraged that one-button skillset to let them plow throw other beginners, and as such are now hopeless once they can't lean on those cheese tactics--to signify how they vary from simply inexperienced players. And I have no interest in wasting my time beating on them.
And of course if they are someone who sits in the intersection of playing on a laggy connection and spamming endless REs/CEs, they can just F#&% right off. Those two classes of people aside, literally everyone gets a rematch, even if they were outright humiliating me in match one or vice-versa. At the same time, I rarely have much concern one way or another as to whether they decide to rematch. The only time it catches my notice is when it was a particularly close match, because that's often where things are most enjoyable, of course. But personally I honestly don't care about RP at all--mostly as I care very little about my official rank in itself. I know I'm going to be playing this game for years to come, so I'm going to hit top ranks with 2-4 mains eventually, and probably settle in the low Cs with another half dozen characters as well. I'm in no rush, and anyway, what purpose does it serve other than bragging rights? It's not like the system reliably pits you against players of similar skill levels, which (if the case) would give me at least some reason to care.
 
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David Blain

[05] Battler
Opera Снимок_2019-01-14_093000_www.twitch.tv.png
Opera Снимок_2019-01-14_093000_www.twitch.tv.png
Linkorz with Groh - 84 wins in line, EIGHTY FOUR WINS IN LINE!!
I saw a lot in eSports ... but this is what I see for the first time

Added later: winstreak broken on 100 wins ;)
 
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Klimat

[08] Mercenary
With a heater shield and mace, one could get just give a couple more auto-GI moves than typically exist for sword and shield characters and otherwise animate around clipping issues--I think? It's still an issue, but feasible, I expect. Mind you, this is Ciruxxx's "historical style I'd like to see" more so than mine, but deconstructing it, I think it's viable in terms of basic mechanics. The reason I suspect it would never happen is that it's just not quick enough; the SC devs have moved more and more towards faster and flashier play, and a character emphasizing knightly / medieval-ish combat techniques is just not a perfect fit.
I guess they should be able to "animate around" it with a mid-sized shield by using it the same way as Sophitia's small shield, so wielded in this weird position that is in front of a character, yet held in a way designed to allow all incoming attacks to go right through, which actually makes no sense from a practical or historical perspective whatsoever, yet Sophitia somehow gets a free pass.
I remember long before SC6 was released in one of the interviews Okubo told there were 2 concepts of new characters they considered for SC6 that ultimately didn't make the cut due to time/money constraints. One was a big, tall, muscular darker skinned woman and another one was a longsword wielding knight, inspired by "For Honor", with a move set incorporating half-swording techniques.
As far as realistic medieval-ish combat techniques go, I think a half-swording character is the bast idea you can come up with. It will be an instantly recognizable realistic style with a proper longsword weapon that has almost no real recognition or representation in media whatsoever. So a win for everyone.
 

Rusted Blade

[07] Duelist
I guess they should be able to "animate around" it with a mid-sized shield by using it the same way as Sophitia's small shield, so wielded in this weird position that is in front of a character, yet held in a way designed to allow all incoming attacks to go right through, which actually makes no sense from a practical or historical perspective whatsoever, yet Sophitia somehow gets a free pass.
Yeah, and the truth of the matter is, you can actually get away with a huge amount of clipping anyway. Weapons can end up clipping through eachother literally a hundred times per round, if you actually slow things down enough to watch. The human visual cognition system makes a whole lot of assumptions that you can leverage in media such as this; so long as you tell a good "story" in the (literal in this case) broadstrokes of the movement, perception will gloss over any small inconsistencies, especially given the speed at which these animations mostly take place. So long as that arm is flung a little wide for any slow wind-down animations (like those on strong verticals and stunners), I think people are likely not to notice how insubstantial that shield seems to be!

I remember long before SC6 was released in one of the interviews Okubo told there were 2 concepts of new characters they considered for SC6 that ultimately didn't make the cut due to time/money constraints. One was a big, tall, muscular darker skinned woman and another one was a longsword wielding knight, inspired by "For Honor", with a move set incorporating half-swording techniques.
As far as realistic medieval-ish combat techniques go, I think a half-swording character is the bast idea you can come up with. It will be an instantly recognizable realistic style with a proper longsword weapon that has almost no real recognition or representation in media whatsoever. So a win for everyone.
That's very interesting too learn. A pity we didn't get that pair instead of the scene-chewing duo magic duo. I think a character mixing in some half-swording could be interesting (and I think you're right, it's a thing audiences would be at least somewhat familiar with from film) but it does rather beg the question--why would anybody ever need it in SoulCalverse when everyone, including 50 kg girls, can generate enough thrust to treat plate mail and human viscera like tissue paper. Several of Siegfried's and Nightmare's weapons over the years have featured ricossos and I always thought "what on earth could they need those for?" considering that they routinely put their swords three feet through their opponents while wielding them one handed! I mean, are they anticipating having to fight a tank or something? :D

All joking aside, though, I think that would have been a cool design. Honestly, I've long felt that Siegfried kind of shut down the exploration of the wide range of pre-renaisance European swords, because everything else looks anticlimactic when the first guy's "long sword" is something that would make Cloud Strife say "Dude, tone it down...it looks like you might be overcompensating for something..." Although in this case, I'm guessing it might have been Geralt who actually made that half-sworder feel redundant, since he too has rather a medieval vibe to his weapon style.

The other design would have been nice as well, since Africa has pretty blindingly received zero love from the series to date (assuming you discount ambiguous origin Zasalamel), despite being contiguous with Eurasia, despite North Africa in particular being home to some pretty fierce martial nations in the sixteenth century. For that matter, the Middle East also gets short-shrift. Of course, there are multiple characters hailing from the Ottoman Empire, but of course they are European and white as white can be (pretty darn white for "Athenians" honestly). A Berber, Persian, or Egyptian or three would go a long way towards rejuvenating the multicultural vibe that was so prominent in early entries but became increasingly left behind in order to fixate on more and more white people, even if they had to start making up nations to accommodate them! Shit, even the majority of the people whose stories are set in Japan are Caucasian at this point! Of course, knowing the....mixed history...of sensitivity towards black people by Japanese game developers, I get a little nervous when I hear a description along the lines of "tall, powerful black woman", fearing it's going to end up looking something like this.
 
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