Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

HackNslash

[07] Duelist
The old "hitbox" argument... yet nobody cries when a mimic character is allowed ^^
This is what I don’t get.
Why are people still crying over CAS like it’s a catastrophic event...

Just ask them to add a height restriction for each character if playing ranked, you could even do it based on the original characters attributes.

I get that some combos don’t work on some like they do others but this isn’t street fighter where you only have 5 moves.
There are a vast amount of options if you’re competent with your chosen character.

And let’s not forget the disadvantage goes both ways.

Sometime I feel the SC criticism comes from laziness.
There’s loads of energy in finding problems but not solutions.

The amount of “see this is why CAS should be banned” combo videos

Instead of “if you pick a dumb CAS model, this is how you gonna get your ass beat” combo videos.

SC is a fighting proudly built on its options and while it can be frustrating, CAS is NOT the games biggest problem by faaaaar!

Let’s be real here, we all know verticals are still tracking, RE works in favour of some and not others and Azwel is most likely going to win EVO.

CaS?!!!... DRAKEEEE?!!!!
 

RagingGhost

[10] Knight
This is what I don’t get.
Why are people still crying over CAS like it’s a catastrophic event...

Just ask them to add a height restriction for each character if playing ranked, you could even do it based on the original characters attributes.

I get that some combos don’t work on some like they do others but this isn’t street fighter where you only have 5 moves.
There are a vast amount of options if you’re competent with your chosen character.

And let’s not forget the disadvantage goes both ways.

Sometime I feel the SC criticism comes from laziness.
There’s loads of energy in finding problems but not solutions.

The amount of “see this is why CAS should be banned” combo videos

Instead of “if you pick a dumb CAS model, this is how you gonna get your ass beat” combo videos.

SC is a fighting proudly built on its options and while it can be frustrating, CAS is NOT the games biggest problem by faaaaar!

Let’s be real here, we all know verticals are still tracking, RE works in favour of some and not others and Azwel is most likely going to win EVO.

CaS?!!!... DRAKEEEE?!!!!
At least there's no Yoda-sized playable characters around. Sucks that he pretty much killed the odds of seeing a Dwarf Slayer from Warhammer Fantasy (or failing that, someone with dwarfism) in the game.
 
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Crash X

[13] Hero
At least there's no Yoda-sized playable characters around. Sucks that he pretty much killed the odds of seeing a Dwarf Slayer from Warhammer Fantasy (or failing that, someone with dwarfism) in the game.
Even then Yoda was still a gutter trash character in 4. To the point he was literally the worst character in the entire game (worse than Rock and Mina).
This is what I don’t get.
Why are people still crying over CAS like it’s a catastrophic event...

Just ask them to add a height restriction for each character if playing ranked, you could even do it based on the original characters attributes.

I get that some combos don’t work on some like they do others but this isn’t street fighter where you only have 5 moves.
There are a vast amount of options if you’re competent with your chosen character.

And let’s not forget the disadvantage goes both ways.

Sometime I feel the SC criticism comes from laziness.
There’s loads of energy in finding problems but not solutions.

The amount of “see this is why CAS should be banned” combo videos

Instead of “if you pick a dumb CAS model, this is how you gonna get your ass beat” combo videos.

SC is a fighting proudly built on its options and while it can be frustrating, CAS is NOT the games biggest problem by faaaaar!

Let’s be real here, we all know verticals are still tracking, RE works in favour of some and not others and Azwel is most likely going to win EVO.

CaS?!!!... DRAKEEEE?!!!!
Well yeah, I mean it’s not as bad as something as the game’s netcode (especially on PS4 where it runs like a potato), input buffering, lack of hitbox consistency, the matchmaking, and the issues with the balance patches towards certain characters. It should at the very least be looked at later down the line.
 

SSfox

[14] Master
For me CaS is one of the biggest problem of SC6 right now, at least in the way it's implemented (not only for hitboxes but for aesthetics and atmosphere purpose too). Now for those who find that OK/Not problematic it's absolutely fine and it's on your rights to like it and find it fine, but please don't tell me and to other people what they should like or not like.

I have mentioned again the problematic CaS before just to reply to @Ave comment, and that's it, i already give my thoughts and feedback about it here and in Bamco feedback webpage, at this point i don't feel the need to talk about it more than that. (to summarize and without going deep into it again because i already done it many times, i don't want forced mods that i didn't even asked for in my SC)
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
So, Amy had a kinda new gimmick with the roses, so does anyone think Cass will have something like that?
Anything that isn't butt hearts, hopefully.

But I think I remember @FluffyQuack datamining something that used the term "SP", which was also used by Siegfried with regards to his Dark Legacy, so maybe some kind of enrage mechanic that would allow her to go all out, perhaps, could be nice and befitting for the character.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
For me CaS is one of the biggest problem of SC6 right now, at least in the way it's implemented (not only for hitboxes but for aesthetics purpose too). Now for those who find that OK/Not problematic it's absolutely fine and it's on your rights to like it and find it fine, but don't tell to other people what they should like or not like.

I have mentioned again the problematic CaS before just to reply to @Ave comment, and that's it, i already give my thoughts and feedback about it here and in Bamco feedback webpage, at this point i don't feel the need to talk about it more than that. (to summarize and without going deep into it again because i already done it many times, i don't want forced mods that i didn't even asked for in my SC)
I don't think anybody has said that you're not entitled to your likes and dislikes. That's not the nature of observations made here. Whenever the issue of CaS is raised by that small minority that sees it as a huge problem, it invariably comes hand-in-hand with the demand that "Namco must remove CaS from ranked--it's ruining the game!" In that context, its pretty reasonable for others to point out that that: a) there's no practical way to do that without creating much bigger problems than the (supposed) issue you want addressed, and b) that most of us don't really view it as a genuine problem to begin with, or at least not a big issue when you consider it in context. Basically most here feel that the proposal is a combination of a 'hammer in search of a nail' and a 'cure that's worse than the disease', to mix metaphors. If you don't really want to discuss it, that's fine and certainly your prerogative. But if you are going to bring it up repeatedly, you should be prepared for people to push back against it.

For example, I'm inclined to point out that your last rhetorical description there is a non-sequitor: CaS is not a "mod" in even a remote definition of the word as it applies to games/software: it's a standard feature of the default game, as it is distributed for any platform, and developed by Project Soul themselves for that purpose--as it has been for the previous three games, going back to the early 2000's. That's not a mod ('forced' or otherwise).

So, Amy had a kinda new gimmick with the roses, so does anyone think Cass will have something like that?
I really, really hope not. I think the way to make characters unique lies in the balance of their individual moves, not trying to gimmickify every single moveset on the roster so that their classic movesets, which in some cases we have been working with for many years, have to be played through a filter of conditions that you have to meet before you get true freedom with your approach.

Of course each game has to do something to evolve the movesets, but I think SCVI's version of Project Soul is trying to force far too much change too fast, and there's been some real missteps that have come about as a result of their somewhat over-eager approach. It's been real hit and miss so far with the gimmicks and I'd just like to see Cassie return playing substantially as she did last time we saw her, but with a broader overall palette of available moves, since Soul Charge allows for that. Hers is such a straight forward and grounded style--she's arguably the last character to be well-suited to some sort of point or aura system. I hope she comes relatively unencumbered in this respect.
 
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FluffyQuack

[14] Master
Anything that isn't butt hearts, hopefully.

But I think I remember @FluffyQuack datamining something that used the term "SP", which was also used by Siegfried with regards to his Dark Legacy, so maybe some kind of enrage mechanic that would allow her to go all out, perhaps, could be nice and befitting for the character.
For full context, she has some kind of special visual effect called "SP" and the only other character to have an effect by the same name is Siegfried. I don't know anything beyond that, so it's hard to tell what it means.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
For full context, she has some kind of special visual effect called "SP" and the only other character to have an effect by the same name is Siegfried. I don't know anything beyond that, so it's hard to tell what it means.
I take it that you've never been able to isolate which visual element of Siegfried's it is, that this SP value calls to?
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
I briefly tried, but I got nowhere with it and I didn't want to spend a lot of time on it.
Yeah, I don't blame you. Anyway, as you say, not much to go on and (insofar as addressing Dante's inquiry) I for one wouldn't assume that it necessarily has anything to do with a particular mechanic, let alone one we'd call a gimmick. Of course, in one way or another, all of the season 1 DLC characters have had something going for them that could be fairly called a gimmick--though Tira's pre-dates SCVI. Still, my fingers are crossed for a relatively more straight forward Cassandra.
 

SSfox

[14] Master
I wonder if Cassandra is taking that long because the character was finished but that PS realize that most people dislike the butt hearts thing, so they had revamp things?

For example, I'm inclined to point out that your last rhetorical description there is a non-sequitor: CaS is not a "mod" in even a remote definition of the word as it applies to games/software: it's a standard feature of the default game, as it is distributed for any platform, and developed by Project Soul themselves for that purpose--as it has been for the previous three games, going back to the early 2000's. That's not a mod ('forced' or otherwise).
It's not officially called mod, but it does exactly what mods do in fighting games .



PS: This is just a coincidence that's they both Marvel, i just pick the first mod video i found about those games, it work same as other mod video


-as it has been for the previous three games, going back to the early 2000's. That's not a mod ('forced' or otherwise).
SC3 didn't have online and SC4 online was not playble and that's why it was never an issue in both those games (for me at least), and in SC5 where i'd 600 hours online play it didn't bothered me either for a fact until at some point when i realize it was problematic and started to really dislike it (again don't get me wrong, i don't dislike CaS as a whole). Was actually even pretty sure if SC6 would happen they would have a feature to be able to only play VS SC characters, but well we all know now the following of the story.

I don't have issues with people replying about it, i'm just saying that i've already made my point about it and give my thoughts about it (like i said i was mostly replying to Ave comment) , so i don't want to repeat myself about it especially in this 40 °C.
 

Jeromeice

[10] Knight
I wonder if Cassandra is taking that long because the character was finished but that PS realize that most people dislike the butt hearts thing, so they had revamp things?
Or they discovered that she lacked some another butt moves ☝🏽
most people seem to be okay with this ( but yeah , please no big rose hearts)
 
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SSfox

[14] Master
The way things are going now i seriously start thinking Cassandra won't be reveal until Evo.

most people seem to be okay with this ( but yeah , please no big rose hearts)
Yeah i've seen people liking that aspect of her too, but i'm not sure if it's in the majority or minority side.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
I don't have issues with people replying about it, i'm just saying that i've already made my point about it and give my thoughts about it (like i said i was mostly replying to Ave comment) , so i don't want to repeat myself about it especially in this 40 °C.
Stay healthy, man--I hear it's brutal there this summer.

Or they discovered that she lacked some another butt moves ☝🏽
most people seem to be okay with this ( but yeah , please no big rose hearts)
It's a mixed bag, really. This aspect of her moveset started being very grounded and realistic, because in SCII and SCIII, they weren't butt thrusts, they were hip-checks (as I discuss here and in the subsequent posts), a very much real and practical move in martial arts and close-quarters combat. However, SCIV started a very worrying trend for this feature of her style.

And it's not just the lame as possible Critical Finisher that is somewhere between saccharine and salacious that ends with her sitting on her opponent's face (twice) with hearts flying all over the place--although admittedly that's the most obvious and terrible version of the fixation on her butt. There's also several variations of a move where she turns completely around to face away from her opponent and then rockets backward, posterior first, like a laser-guided ass missile. Now, I know not everyone has formal training in real defense arts, so this may come as a shock--but as it turns out, turning your back to an opponent and then throwing your entire weight at them, uncontrolled and unable to block, and in a manner that gives you literally the least possible ability to adjust your movement or control your fall...and your opponent is holding a sword...and the most you are going to get out of it even if it works (presumably because your opponent stopped mid-combat with their mouth agape at your sheer stupidity) is that you will bump them with the softest part of your body, with any force evenly distributed along it...and probably (if they didn't just skewer you) fall into a tangle with your adversary with your back to their torso where they can easily put you in a lock or else strike you to their heart's content, while you are absolutely incapable of defending yourself or effectively striking back...it may shock, but as it turns out, that is not a super effective combat technique!

So basically, they took the character who breathed a tiny bit of life into the realism of the franchise's combat, and became the first female character in the series not to be super cutesy (Xinagua, Seong-mina), or sexified and graceful (Ivy and Sophita) and moved her a little bit more towards being just another goofball (we've discussed just recently how at the same time they transformed her face from a lean one, with an intimidating glare to baby-fat heavy one with a dopey grin, though most people who have complained about it seem more concerned that she didn't meet their particular standard for beauty--she has a bit of a pug nose, according to some, though I think its more of a trick of the lighting on some stages--than the fact that she now looks like an enthusiastic cheerleader rather than determined fighter willing to do whatever it takes to win). And just like her sister, apparently she now has a thing for making sure some portion of her thighs come in contact with someone's face during a fight..a priority for any accomplished fighter, as we all know.

It's just a couple of moves in SCIV, and otherwise her moveset continues on the trajectory started with SCII of being really pretty brutal (she's still slamming that shield into people's teeth, or against the temples with the sword hilt on the other side, or stabbing at toes and eyeballs and midsection). So if that were the last we saw of her, I wouldn't be too worried that the butt attacks are going to be increasingly accentuated. But then there's Lost Swords, where Cassie features as the Brave Backside---sorry, Brave Swordsman. Her butt thrust moves are even more accentuated in that one and she's generally kind of more twirly like her sister--which I think is an aesthetic mistake, as I feel the fact that she tends to come especially straight at you is part of what sets her style apart from Sophitia's. Again, these moves don't overwhelm her moveset, but if you're looking for clues as to how serious PS take her character these days and what direction they are moving in with her, it might be worth skipping to 32 seconds into her official trailer for Lost Swords. Of course, this game is a bit of a reboot, so we can cross our fingers and hope that they show more fidelity to Cassandra's earlier appearances, but this is Project Soul at the end of the day.

TLDNR: Hip checks to throw the opponent off balance = practical and awesome. Goofball attacks that throw her actual ass into the actual faces of her opponents, to give fanboys a semi, celebrated by on-screen heart emojis = please no, enough already.
 
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