Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

[RyujiSakamoto]

@Soul I suppose you have a point. While I don’t appreciate Nyte’s absolutely insulting behavior towards myself and others here when he questioned his narrative, I have to credit Vergeben for planting the seed.

Because of Vergeben my experience on here in the last year or two has been filled laughter! My sides have never been the same!

So Vergeben did some good things, creating an unforgettable meme and bringing the community together.

 

[Rusted Blade]

Like how Dante was supposed to be a guest character for SCII, or how Taki and Mitsurugi were supposed to be replaced in that game as well.

While I don't disagree with your main thrust that many wild concepts get considered in early development for any game (let alone a title as crazy as Soulcalibur is prone to be), the Dante thing is actually a strong counter-example to your argument that perhaps Verg was tapping real info that simply got dropped or altered after the fact. The "Dante will be a guest character" notion (which to the best of my knowledge arose around the time of SCIII's development, not SCII) seems to be complete mythology. It arose out of the ether of fan discussion as a rumor and there is not so much as a scrap of evidence (not a single statement from any developer of any title in the series, nor a single industry journalist, nor anything else that resembles a reliable source) that Dante was ever planned as a guest. It is highly probable that someone just made it up (as people will do from time to time merely for shits and giggles) or that someone on some forum once said they thought Dante would make for a good guest, and a game of Chinese Whispers ensued, based on wishful thinking and fan zeal that transformed it into "Dante is going to be a guest" (and then "Dante was going to be a guest" once it failed to materialize).

When trying to speculate on how much of Vergeben's prognostications were concepts that got dropped, how much were speculation on his part, how much might have been his ultimate source leading him astray, and how much consisted of just outright lies told to gain attention, we are at a distinct disadvantage in that he never really did reveal the supposed "sources" of his information. Which in itself smells a bit of bullshit, if you ask me; though it's not outside the realm of possibility that he somehow got in touch with someone with inside knowledge of the development and needed to be faithful to their career risks by being vague as to their ultimate identity, that sounds highly dubious to me. Beyond that, some of the concepts discussed above in Dissidia's summary of predictions that failed to materialize are not just things that did not bear out, but also concepts that I have a very hard time imagining were ever really considered by any development team of any Soulcalibur game ever. In short, I'm not inclined, taking the evidence together as a whole, to give the fellow the benefit of the doubt, especially given the manner in which some of these ideas were promoted. One of two things is likely: he either played fast and loose with what he actually knew, or he was himself trolled through his lack of credulity.

But then, that can be said of the community at large regarding his predictions: most people who are butt hurt about buying into the nonsense really ought to be going back to assess what they could learn from the situation about their own critical thinking skills and their inability to detect the odor of misinformation/wild speculation before those shortfalls in how they evaluate evidence for a proposition have some sort of impact on some actually significant area of their lives, rather than getting amped up over the fact that they were misled about some video game characters....

 

[Klimat]

He was wrong about everything else.

kilik and groh were rivals

that azwel would be groh's father.

I totally see those two as informed guesses based on actual facts that went a little too far.
There are only a very few fully animated 3D cutscenes in the game and one of those is Kilik fighting Groh, it was also heavily featured in the trailers.
Vergeben didn't simply say Azwel was Groh's father, he said Groh had daddy issues with Azwel. In the end those two definitely had a lot of issues, even if those had nothing to do with family.

 

[Raregroove]

Did he actually call Grøh, or did he say there would be an edgy character after the teaser that showed Grøh's arm and weapon? Because even I could have said he was edgy based on that.

 

[LisaK]

He know something but he mix with his own speculations.. another thing I saw was that he saw the game as a reboot so he talked about the possibility that Xiba, Natsu, Talim (adult) and Bangoo (adult) were in the game, so basically he didn't know that the game was based on SC 1..
Right Wrong Speculation

Spoiler: 2017

So you know that newcomer I was talking about?
You know that style switching/multiple moveset thing I was talking about?
This is how it works:

https://imgur.com/rHSmsMm

Before you ask, no, the character is not Darth Maul. lol
But his weapon was the inspiration for the new guy's. I needed a visual to express the idea.
And before you worry, no, it's not a lightsaber, they are swords. More like Cao Pi's Dual Blade from Dynasty Warriors 5 and 8 from what I hear, which is the same idea.
The new guy uses two swords that he can fight with separate, or combine them and fight that way. Two different movesets in one character.

Ever since I heard about it, I got very excited because I thought that was an amazing idea for the series as it's honestly something I always wanted to see them do something with a character having a dual blade weapon, so dreams do come true eventually.
Oh, and he's Kilik's new rival.

I'll attempt to try and give you a morsel for now....
The other new character has ties to the guy who uses the style switching dual blade.
They are older than him, though.

I don't know nor heard anything regarding Xiba on VI yet, but I have felt since they first announced him back on V that they just plain did him wrong.
If they did want to bring him back, it's not THAT hard to approach him differently and how they should have in the first place.
He should have inherited Hualin's Rod moveset from Soul Calibur III with tweaks. Like his original moves sprinkled in throughout.

Maybe it's just because I've run myself ragged as of late with not sleeping much as of late (I'll partially blame this hype train I'm on) but.... why don't they just give Talim wind element effects to her moves? Especially now, if she is back (which I have no confirmation of as like I've said before I only currently know 7 characters.... ok 8 now actually as of today, but more on that later) and older, more ingrained into the wind priestess life.... you would figure and hope they highlight that in a logical way that reflects her abilities increasing.
Giving her WIND! effects to her attacks because THE WIND! would help guide her in a higher tier direction finally by adding better reach and properties to her attacks. I'm not saying they have to go full Rashid or whatever. But giving her more wind element to her attacks could seriously help, be cool, and make perfect sense for her maturation and role.

If they don't bring Rock back, then they're obligated to bring Bangoo in this time around since he was the one canonical in-universe newcomer everyone thought would be introduced as playable on SCV due to the time skip and the potential he would have, and yet.... no Bangoo. :I

I have to say, among all the questionable decisions that V made with its roster, not having Talim, Zasalamel, and Bangoo helped make the time skip all the more baffling and pointless feeling to do when they didn't bring in the characters that would've gotten older and matured into adults (Talim and Bangoo) while Zasalamel would've been around because he's immortal and there's no reason for him to be left out of involvement in the happenings to some extent.
I'm going off on a tangent now, but you get my point. lol

Dec 3, 2017 Confirms Xianghua / I don't know what Xianghua's looks like on VI yet.

I was told it would "probably be out around late 2018/early 2019."
If that is when they do and can restrain themselves from rushing it, then I'm plenty fine with that. I personally hope they just dedicate as much time as they need for it.
SCV was a "teaching moment" to them, that I know. So, them not rushing VI and aiming to make what is hopefully the best game in the series should be their goal.

I'm going to just come out and say this since I've heard it from two sources now and have been given the clearance to say so, and that's that Talim is slated to be in the game.

Based on research and surveys, Talim is very popular with people that only play single player content and did not purchase or have actually even played many Soul Calibur games since II, and some rarely play fighting games. But they really love the character, and a character that has a strong following can't be overlooked, and was another one of the main factors of criticism towards SCV's roster.
Her return in Soul Calibur VI is due to a combination of these factors, most notably and obviously having topped that character survey back in 2015.
When you want to win back the casuals and get them interested in your game, even if it's something like a character, logic would normally dictate that you listen to it. And they did.

In my own experience, I have noticed that most Talim fans are kind of very specific and have their different sectors, but the commonality is her being very popular with casual fans. I've personally met a great deal of people who like and played Soul Calibur throughout the years that, for various reasons, be they male or female, just really liked Talim. So bringing her back is a great move all around, whether people like her or not, or question her inclusion due to past viability.

However, it's what they decide to do with her that's the most curious to me....

Speaking solely about Soul Calibur V, I recall that there was quite a lot of fan curiosity regarding Talim aging 17 years for that back then (being 31 years old on there, had she been on it) but that obviously didn't happen as she wasn't on the game at all, which was still to the day an odd move due to her age being only 16 prior to SCV, so that would not have been an "issue." I will come out and say I don't know why they didn't use her on V.
Maybe they were afraid to age her? I'm not sure.
Maybe they had thought aging her would somehow kill her appeal?
Which isn't the case at all because people were very engaged and curious trying to imagine what she'd look like as an adult and a full blown wind priestess, which her design could have reflected.
I am personally intrigued how they will go with her. If they will feel they have to retain her "image" as being the "kid" of the series still, or just make her a short adult.

I'll tell you right now that I was not told anything in regards to her age yet, and how they will be handling that, hence why I'm discussing this, and likely to create a discussion because of that for people analyze and talk about until I, or we find out.
But I personally hope they take the shot and don't fall back on some kind of excuse like "wind magic" or some kind of time travely Astral Chaos stuff or whatever to explain why she looks the same as she did on IV, and is still only 16 years old.
I feel like that would be regressive and stunted, as the character needs forward evolution at this point to make a more triumphant return because it would be even more emotionally impactful for her fans to see her return and have changed, to some meaningful extent. One that doesn't lose fans, but makes more.
Like I have said, I don't know if they will be doing that yet, but I would approve of that more than keeping her as she was.
So I will take the personal stance of saying that it would be far more interesting to see her mature into her role as a wind priestess.... and be better tier wise to placate her fans and help create new ones for the character, and additionally have some moveset tweaks to express the character development and age.

I will furthermore state that I would be genuinely surprised if they bring her back after winning that character poll, and don't decide to get her some serious spotlight in the happenings of the story to sustain her fans by making her quite important in the game's story to some extent.

The one male veteran and female veteran character I heard about that were both introduced on different games and both were also on Soul Calibur V that I never revealed = Siegfried and Tira.

Zasalamel is a character I haven't outright heard is definitely coming back, but that it's "very likely" that he returns was what was told to me in regards to him. So adding that with what Hayate heard speaks well to his chances of returning.

Keep in mind that I was told that the Switch version wouldn't be announced at the same time.

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SC VI announcement
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I haven't heard anything about CaS yet at all, but I didn't know about Reversal Edge either for instance, so I've already made it well known that I don't know everything there is to know about the game obviously. Only what I've been told and have the honor to know ahead of time.
That being said, if they really aren't including CaS on SCVI.... they're leaving money on the table in regards to sales in a bad way. That's become an entire additional attraction to people loving the series.
I do think they should allow players to regulate whether or not they want to face CaS opponents online. But other than that I have zero issue with the feature and never have.
I can only hope and assume they're saving that reveal for later since it's a big thing for them and there's no point in revealing it too soon before they work out the kinks and figure out what all they want players to be able to customize.

Very likely getting the reveal of the new guy in the very least when it comes to character reveals. If more than one, then him and Kilik.

It's not. It's a newcomer who's Kilik's rival. An assassin who's apparently kind of edgy. He can use two swords together (in the state as seen at the end of the trailer) or apart, having him dual wield the swords separately.

Here is a good question....
Since SCVI is a reboot of SC1, would you like to see Johan Dürer get more importance given to him, and be made playable by being a non-CaS character with his own moveset? He is a canonical character and part of the story as a background character, introduced on SC1.
And what about some other characters in a similar situation, like Salia, Azola, or even SCIII's scrapped character Edgardo for instance?

Salia for instance would be a great additional facet to Siegfried's story to tell and be a character this time around to show that there is a character close to him in Schwarzwind that sticks by him (because she loves him) and took over as Schwarzwind's leader in his absence throughout the years he separates from his band. She could be utilized as someone who stubbornly tries to track him down and help him, show him compassion in his suffering, but he adamantly will refuse and be emotionally distant regarding that kind of connection and relationship with someone (which looking at the current canon, he doesn't bother with it probably because he just feels cursed and doesn't want someone else to have to go through what he's had to to any extent of the imagination).

Having and showing someone directly affected by what he's going through/goes through with the Soul Swords, Nightmare and all that in the early part of the story where it all begins for him to that extent in Soul Calibur's story (now being retold) would be an even better alternative take on the storytelling since you'd get to see and know he didn't have to suffer alone, though he chose to. Not wanting to burden people with his pain and everything he had to go through.

He's an assassin with some kind of personal grudge against Kilik. Him wanting to kill Kilik is more for pleasure than business.
The new guy's parent is also a newcomer. So yes, you're getting new character that is older in age added as well. People who like the idea of some new characters that aren't fresh faced newcomers should be happy. They also aren't meant to "replace" anyone and are something new to the series moveset-wise.

SCV and SCVI's announcers are both Paul St. Peter. He just sounds less quiet and unenthusiastic as he did on V. No offense to the guy, but he did a terrible job on V. But I think it was more the voice director not telling him to emote properly and speak louder. I do still think he's miscast as he sounds far too reserved and not bombastic enough to be a properly effective announcer to make things feel as epic as they look. But whatever.

It may be my own ears, but it sounds like Matthew Mercer is voicing Mitsurugi now.

I'll come out and say I have no idea how big the roster is precisely, but it's time to quell some worries.
The character select screen isn't final, but 20 is going to be minimum before DLC. Some incomplete characters are being held back for DLC unfortunately. I was told the game will most likely have more characters than SCV though. But just don't expect 30+ characters or whatever.

Maxi is in by the way. Speaking of which, I have some big news about him potentially.
Take this with a HUGE grain of salt because even my source that told me couldn't 100% confirm it, but the wording and what they were told eludes them to believe that he might be gay on SCVI, apparently?
Don't look too far into this yet. But the story mode is going to be covering Astaroth killing Maxi's crew and close friends in some kind of emotional way, and it was said to me that maybe his LOVER is going to be in the game to some extent and be a man that was killed to give Maxi even more of a motive against his neverending feud with Astaroth now.
For now, just keep that in mind if it is the case.

If you want my personal suspicion of who the "locked in 20" would be, mixing in what I've heard and shared so far with my own suspicion as of this very moment because SCVI is a rebooted MK9 style retelling thing, I would imagine the roster winds up being
Sophitia
Mitsurugi
The new guy with the dual blade weapon
The new guy's parent
Kilik
Xianghua
Maxi
Nightmare
Siegfried
Taki
Ivy
Astaroth
Voldo
Cervantes
Yoshimitsu
Talim
Lizardman/Aeon Calcos
Guest character
Tira or Seong Mi-Na
Hwang or Yun-Seong

It's really those last two slots that seem the most "could go either way if only 20" but since I've heard of Tira already, I'd put her in a much more solid position than Seong Mi-Na, Yun-Seong, or Hwang as being a launch roster character.
Again, this is just going with the idea of them going bare minimum 20, though from what I've been told, that doesn't seem to be the finalized case, but there's a chance it could be.
Since I didn't hear that Zasalamel is definitely in, but was told he's very likely, that kind of leads me to believe that he's probably DLC.
Rock, Inferno, and Edge Master are the most likely sacrifices in this rebooted version for obvious reasons.
With Seong Mi-Na and Hwang being in a place of uncertainty given how the series has treated them before already in being "kind of expendable."
But, again, those all or a combination of them could make it in since 20 doesn't seem to actually be the finalized roster. This is only my speculated roster if it is.

Again, I posted earlier that I heard the 20 character thing is not set in stone and is definitely going to be the launch roster number. So the panic button doesn't need to exactly be pressed YET.
But I was already told some characters are going to be withheld as DLC, so there's that too. They need something to sell a season pass with later. lol

English isn't my first language, so sometimes I word things a little strangely, but to reword it much better:
20 characters is not absolutely going to be the launch roster number from what I hear. I was told to not look too far into it, and to tell others that, as the only way it would actually only be 20 is if they intentionally withhold characters they have done, which is apparently already a plan of theirs, they heard.
But they don't see them holding back such an amount to shoot themselves in the foot and do.
They told me that the roster won't be 30+, but will most likely have more characters than SCV though. It had 27, 28 if you count Dampierre (who was DLC, so he might not be being counted).
So it's sounding like barring any corporate greed rearing its ugly head in the worst way, the roster should be 28 or 29 characters.
But I'm a jaded pessimist when it comes to these things, so don't blame me if it doesn't wind up being the case. I'd rather you set your expectations closer to 20 (not under, but over) as opposed to closer to 30, and obviously not exceeding 30.

Mitsurugi's new voice actor is Matthew Mercer. He's known for voicing Chrom, McCree, Leon, Levi, Jotaro, and Hit.

Oh, there will be DLC characters. Lots of them at worst. Hope for the best outcome since they already have it in mind to withhold some as DLC.

I've leaked a few at this point. So I'll go down the list for you guys here.
Kilik (with staff moveset back, which was more obvious as to why ever since it was announced to be a reboot)
Xianghua
Maxi (also, Maxi might be gay on VI from what I heard)
Astaroth
Nightmare
Siegfried
Ivy
Talim
Tira
New guy with the dual blade that can fight with the weapon together or two swords separately (he's an assassin that is Kilik's rival)
New guy's parent (also uses a totally new moveset/style, not replacing any characters either)

Heard Zasalamel is "very likely" but not with surety that he's in, so it wouldn't be a massive leap in logic to say there's a chance he could be DLC.

I know the gender of both. The dual blade wielder is a guy as I've said time and again.
The parent I can't say which gender they are yet, but the current "rule" in place they have me following is that if his parent is not revealed alongside him, I can say which they are to him.

Talim's English VA is actually Teen Titans/Teen Titans Go's Starfire, Princess Bubblegum (Adventure Time), and Nia from Gurren Lagann's voice actress.
I've seen people egregiously list or think (because they fail to decipher voices on a basic level) that Talim was voiced on Soul Calibur III and IV by Kate Higgins. No. No she was not. She was voiced by Hynden Walch.
Had they actually listed English voices and not unlisted them in the credits for those games for some reason, it wouldn't even be a discussion or "debate," even though there's nothing to debate. That's Hynden Walch.

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Without any content he started to speculate about the characters according to the opinion of Hayate's videos.
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So I heard something new.
My main SCVI source said that they heard most of the Lost Swords roster that wasn't in SCV will be a part of SCVI.
Looking at that game's roster, it had Mitsurugi, Sophitia, Siegfried, Nightmare, Taki, Ivy, Astaroth, Maxi, Cervantes, Raphael, Amy, Seong Mi-Na, Cassandra, Hilde, Leixia, Patroklos, and Pyrrha.

Before I get into that, I want to focus on Hilde momentarily.
Hilde being post SCIII could mean she doesn't make it in due to that interview that said most returning characters are from SC1, but there are also returning characters from SCII and III, which is this video here:

Believe me, I remember all that speculation and still feel she was OBVIOUSLY intended to be Viola, until they went out of their way to later be like "Nah they're different.... or something." and Viola's put in a position of being Amy's sister or some bullshit like that. lol
That was why I was saying and wondering how they would handle Amy and/or Viola on VI, since it's an interesting situation they have they can work with, with it being a reboot and all, they can do whatever they want in regards to that if they wanted.

Algol's divisive, but was really good to play as (broken on IV, but high tier on V I recall) while Hilde had her doom combo on IV, but still remained fairly popular on V.
It seems pretty simple at this point when you think about it.
If they are going to keep to SC1 thru 3 like it sounds like they are, then whichever leftovers worth adding that they didn't have at launch would be obviously DLC , then of course Hilde and Algol.
The biggest question is what exactly happens with ZWEI and Viola/their movesets.

You're at least getting 2 newcomers that I know about and at least one guest character (per console version) so there's that.

Due to how this game takes place in the 16th century again, that will likely mean none of the newcomers from SCV at all except for ZWEI and possibly Viola have a chance to return unless they intentionally utilize time skipping and travel/distortion.
ZWEI's age was listed as unknown. Viola's was never fully revealed either (she is "24 tricolor stars"), and they can do whatever they want in regards to her real identity now if they did not want to utilize the Amy thing.

I got a fairly substantial leak update just now that they had and were able to share....

Story mode is mainly going to cover SC1, but events from Soul Edge/Blade, SCII, and SCIII will be present in some shape or form!
Apparently "a lot of the SCIII-V characters will be reserved for DLC. Hilde is likely one of them."
And "most of Lost Swords' cast will be in SCVI. You can pretty much deduce who will and who won't. And as for the characters that weren't on V, but were added to Lost Swords that will be in: Taki and Cassandra, obviously Sophitia who's already confirmed, but probably not Mi-Na."

I asked what's up with Amy then since they didn't say her name with those "characters that weren't on V but added to Lost Swords" and they brought up the chance that she might just appear as Viola from now on, but they currently have no confirmation of that for sure.

There you go. You can let your speculation and roster predictions go wild with what we know now!

To make my own personal 20 character prediction since I'm setting expectations to 20 minimum still even though that isn't final and was told there will probably be more but want to not to get ahead of myself, here goes:
Mitsurugi
Sophitia
Siegfried
Nightmare
Taki
Ivy
Cervantes
Voldo
Astaroth
Kilik
Xianghua
Maxi
Yoshimitsu
Cassandra
Talim
Raphael
Tira
New guy with the dual blade style switching that's Kilik's rival (and an edgy assassin)
New guy's parent
Guest character (but if it exceeds 20, then Lizardman/Aeon and Yun-Seong or Hwang probably gets in as well as the guest)

That clocks in at exactly 20 right there.
If it exceeds 20, then yeah, Lizardman/Aeon's probably also getting in, same with Yun-Seong or Hwang.
Setsuka feels like an uncertain inclusion in terms of launch or DLC.
Zasalamel honestly feels like such a DLC bait character. And knowing that it sounds like at least one of the 3 newcomers from SCIII will be DLC, it comes down more to Setsuka or Zasalamel than it would Tira, since Tira is Nightmare's sidekick. Plus I heard about Tira before all this talk of DLC, so I feel that has to amount to something in regards to her standing of being a launch character.
Furthermore, her popularity and story relevance since she was introduced is too high to ignore, and in a reboot, they can simply give her retroactive relevance.

1. Nothing that I can say yet, sadly. But it is new and not meant to "replace" another character/style. So yes, both newcomers are adding completely new movesets/weapon styles to the game.

2. Probably. I would say that it most likely speaks well to Viola and ZWEI coming back though no matter what. I guess Natsu could as well if they declone and reboot her, which would not surprise me if they did.

3. It seems like it's more likely that Hilde's DLC than launch, what with how the roster is being structured and the games being covered, plus them telling me in particular that she namely is likely to be DLC at that.

4. That I don't know. If the roster is really only 20, or low 20s, then with DLC, it should be closer to 30 that means when you consider who would then have to be DLC. So.... 6 to 8 DLC characters I guess that would mean? Something like that. At most 9 or 10. But I would say that it most likely sounds like 6 to 8. But they did say "a lot," so upwards of 10 would obviously qualify and be the more literal interpretation.

5. Yeah, those were Nightmare and Tira.

I have noticed and realized, that even with the rebooted nature and aspect of the story, plus covering the first four games in the series to some extent(s) like SCVI is apparently doing like I was told.... Hwang has always pretty much been a non-factor in the grand scheme of things.
Seong Mi-Na as well to a lesser extent. And Yun-Seong's most notable "arc" being his kind of shipping with Talim on SCIII.
It's kind of weird, but when you actually think about it, the three Korean characters haven't ever really.... done.... much of anything in the scope of the full story. They're just kind of there. And when I think about that, I guess I can actually start to see why they don't see them as such a priority.
Of course, they could always give them (any of them if not all) more important and direct things to do in the story that matter. But they never did.
And now they have a chance to in a reboot, and my faith in them actually doing it is still pretty low.
If anything, we'd be better off having them introduce a brand new Korean character entirely. I'd have more faith in that than hoping they bring any of the Koreans back and giving them worthwhile relevance.

I know they're both in. But I don't know if they'll be merged or not.
But they both have their own and separate movesets/styles nowadays, so, I see little reason to not just include both when the animation resources are there to reuse. They can give Nightmare a malfested Siegfried costume you can choose like on SCII.

Then again, I can't even definitely say that Nightmare will even be Siegfried this time. So there's that to think about just in case they pull that kind of swerve on us. I don't think we wouldn't get a zweihander Nightmare, just because that's so iconic at this point.
But I don't know for sure how straight they're playing the retelling other than retelling events to some extent and form from not just SC1, but SE-SCIII.
They could be going loose with it and someone else becomes Nightmare this time around. I don't know yet.

The SCVI taking place after SCV thing I was told from a different source (that they claimed was outdated and based on the game's direction earlier on that they knew about, which lines up with the Passion Republic stuff too)

If you haven't been paying attention or following along, I'm really only keeping to my main SCVI source for my information of the game anymore.
So far everything that's been proven true about it (the new guy with the dual blade which I've shared more detailed information about, and a new universal "V-Trigger styled mechanic of sorts") has come from them. Leading me to believe the other stuff will all pan out in due time as well since they know very specific information.

He basically talk about leaked arts from Passion Republic..

They already did that in the the relationship charts of New Legends of Project Soul, as they decided that Viola and Amy are shown as separate characters in that despite all the evidence and logic that she's just Amy. So it then became implied that she's her twin sister.
It just comes across like they scrambled for what origin and backstory to go with since they weren't forced to go with the original idea that would've been realized in the story on V.
But, due to the crap and hacked up incomplete story, Viola only got information and "development" in outside materials. Which are even kind of inconsistent and muddled.
If any one character would benefit from the retcon, it's absolutely Viola. She was a lot of ideas, and none of them properly ever realized.
In a reboot, they can do whatever they want.
Make her Amy but keep the Viola name.
Simply give Amy her moveset.
Make her Amy at first then Viola by the end of the story.
Whatever.
But her being Amy's twin sister just feels redundant to do now in a retelling like this as it feels as if it benefits less by doing so.

I wouldn't completely give up hope. But it is sounding less likely that she'll be on SCVI the heavy story focus more than anything. Them retelling SC1 with aspects of SE, SCII, and SCIII when she throughout the series has been a character outside of the main plot and narrative (same with Hwang and Yun-Seong) doesn't speak well to any of their chances.
Talim being a character they are including from what I've heard, despite being inconsequential to the main story before, is due to her overwhelming popularity and (I imagine) giving her an actual purpose in the story now to make up for it in this reboot.
Obviously they could do the same to any 3 of the Koreans. But my faith in that happening is far less now that I know what I know.

Story mode is mainly going to cover SC1, but events from Soul Edge/Blade, SCII, and SCIII will be present in some shape or form.
Apparently "a lot of the SCIII-V characters will be reserved for DLC. Hilde is likely one of them."
And "most of Lost Swords' cast will be in SCVI. You can pretty much deduce who will and who won't. And as for the characters that weren't on V, but were added to Lost Swords that will be in: Taki and Cassandra, obviously Sophitia who's already confirmed, but probably not Mi-Na."

I asked what's up with Amy then since they didn't say her name with those "characters that weren't on V but added to Lost Swords" and they brought up the chance that she might just appear as Viola from now on, but they currently have no confirmation of that for sure.

The character select screen isn't final, but 20 is going to be minimum before DLC.
Some characters (incomplete and otherwise) are being held back for DLC unfortunately. I was told the game will most likely have more characters than SCV though. But just don't expect 30+ characters or whatever at launch.
Maxi's in (so is Astaroth) and Maxi might be gay on VI and tied to his story (his lover gets killed along with his crew by Astaroth), also includes an update and whole Switch version thing not having been confirmed alongside the game's reveal and the Xbox One version that I didn't have a confirmation of beforehand

The only reason why I didn't know that the direction went in with SCVI was a reboot was because the source I had before coming into contact with my main SCVI source now had been told it was a sequel to VI. Which was outdated information since it originally was at a point before the shakeup with Project Soul, as the Passion Republic stuff that leaked was actually based on what the game was originally going to be at an much earlier point, so they were unaware of the development change (and only knew of the game being PS4 exclusive aside from being on PC. They didn't hear of an Xbox One or the stuff that outlier source had heard about a Switch version)
The source I've come into contact since my Leakileaks post on reddit is the one who's so far been spot on with what they told me that I put out there that's been revealed so far aka the new guy at the end of the reveal trailer and Soul Charge being a V-Trigger-like mechanic namely.

The other newcomer that I know about is the new guy's parent. They also utilize a new moveset for the series and not meant to be replacing anybody.

I'd have to go through all 10 pages of my post archive for myself here for the other stuff, but to sum up the rest:
Kilik (with the staff, obvious as to why now with how the timeline and game is being handled), Siegfried, Nightmare, Ivy, and Tira are in as well.
Heard that Zasalamel is "very likely" but signs are pointing a bit more to him possibly being DLC.

I haven't said or heard anything about Aeon/Lizardman yet. I don't know where that exactly came from or how that was misconstrued.

What surprised me was people here trying to say "don't turn Lizardman/Aeon into a tragic character" and "that wouldn't help him" when.... uh.... where have you been? Lizardman/Aeon IS a tragic character. That is part of the whole of what makes him who and what he is.
The guy's mostly fucked with and manipulated throughout the story.
The problem is the games being fairly flippant about how they project and highlight these aspects to make people feel something more for him versus Siegfried and other characters with legitimate emotional connections with fans via their journey(s) and development.
Yes, he's a badass Lizardman who does badass (and goofy ass) lizard things.
But that isn't all of who and what he is.

Underneath the surface is a tragic character. One of the most in the entire series for that matter.
It's ok if you gloss over the story and don't know/don't care about it, but that's exactly it and why there is a problem with how the previous games have gone about his story. They didn't make you care.
Not like they should have.

I'm not in the camp that wants him to be human from now on. Not at all. But doing an origin chapter thing and having him use Pat's style and some kind of gladiator inspired design wouldn't be a bad idea.
They could either make him an unlockable bonus character after completing his section in the story (the smarter idea) or one of those annoying NPC characters who's moveset is just a CaS thing and he was put together in CaS.

 

[LisaK]

I compiled all of his most relevant comments and separated what he knew, made mistakes or speculated, but after several comments and pages I am in no condition to do this, except that only Dante could read this, so 2018 was not organized. He only knew few things, but he mixed it with his own speculations and the information Hayate brought.

Spoiler: 2018

The character shown at the end of the reveal trailer is the son, yeah. He uses his weapon like a mix between Darth Maul and Cao Pi (Dynasty Warriors 5 and 8 version) meaning the swords separately or together. The trailer obviously shows it together as one.

I do not. Not yet at least. Might not know until everyone else does when they're revealed either.
But something else I didn't share about them yet:
The new guy (the son) with the dual blade weapon that is an assassin and rival of Kilik (but wanting to kill him for personal reasons, not business) that has an edgelord personality has some kind of issues with his father, and that's another aspect of where the father comes into place in the story.
While I don't have any more story information for them outside of that, the gears in my mind start turning and suspecting there could be some kind of familial thing going on with Kilik, new guy, and new papi.
Maybe the dad is the father to both?.... and he's trying to prevent his sons from killing eachother over whatever issue it may be.
That actually wouldn't surprise me if something like that is the case. And if the new guy and papi are European, that could be used to explain why Kilik doesn't really look that Asian.

Another thing about the two new guys. As early as a month ago, they still had placeholder names. The new guy's was, and no I'm not kidding "Maul."
That's not his official name though, as he's gotten yet another placeholder name since then.

Edgelord and Edge Master. The edge runs in the family. XD
That actually would be clever if they pulled that with them, and "rebranded" Edge Master as a new character ala Aeon Calcos was to Lizardman being consider a "new" character despite just being a new version of the same one.

Furthermore, redesigning Edge Master and giving him a new name and moveset would mean they fully own the rights to that new version of the character, as opposed to the rights for Edge Master where they have and had to pay his specific character designer royalties to use him being why they took so long to bring him back on V.

I heard back from my main source with some good news today!
Remember how I heard Zasalamel was "very likely" to be in? But most likely DLC?
Well he is definitely going to be part of SCVI and seems like there's a pretty good chance he won't be DLC and instead a launch roster character too.
I can't currently confirm that for sure is what they have planned for how he is included. But for now, it is looking really good on that front thankfully.

In january he change his opinion about Zasalamel as DLC because his "main source"

Anyone else notice how Grøh's eyepatch thing's eyeball seems to be made from the Dvapara-Yuga?

I feel like I am stating the obvious here, but Grøh's hair having blue tips normally then transforms when ditching the eyepatching thing (that looks to be made with fragment of Dvapara-Yuga) is meant to represent Soul Calibur and Soul Edge's related effects they have on someone (Soul Edge turns people's hair red when their body is the new host as Nightmare, but the blue hair thing is new though for the other side of things however)

The biggest difference here is that Grøh seems to have control of how far he goes and is at least capable of balancing himself out between the two influences.

You could even assume the choice was symbolic. Having blue tips to represent the one and the obvious red tips for the other may represent how he's "on the tip" of its influence, but not fully succumbing to it.

As for what's going on with Siegfried.... like Hayate, I heard Siegfried's in the game. And given how the only old game that this game will cover where he didn't have his own dedicated character slot was on Soul Calibur II.... this game is still covering SE/B, SC1, and SCIII where he was his own character.
His SCIII character arc and redemption is something I highly doubt they're not going to retell.
And knowing that SCIII's Tira and Zasalamel are part of SCVI, it makes all the more sense to include Siegfried as himself as well on VI just because of III being retold as part of this game, if nothing else.

Grøh's father is another newcomer yes. I wouldn't doubt it if he is since I don't know anything about the specifics to his design.
That was a theory brought up on here before.
I said it before, but I was told Grøh will have issues with his father in the story.
It's probably not that out of the realm of possibility that for story purposes they needed or wanted Edge Master, but he got the Aeon Calcos treatment and was a past character introduced as a new version of an old character with a new name.
They could give him a new name, do away with the "I use every weapon style" thing and just have him do various character's moves as references to be the Edge Master, but be and have a unique weapon to tie it all together, since I was told Grøh's dad would be using a totally new moveset not meant to replace anyone.
Storywise, Grøh wanting to kill his father's student (Kilik) would draw a massive wedge between the two if this does add up.

The fact that Setsuka's name hasn't even come up from my source and the whole "DLC characters will mainly by from III-V" and with Tira confirmed to me earlier into knowing them, and in the passed few days that Zasalamel is definitely being included, that leaves Setsuka as the odd one out.
She's popular enough, but not plot relevant. So they can get away with making her DLC.
I'd love to see (or hear beforehand) that Hwang for instance is a launch character, but the Koreans have always been some of the least plot relevant characters in the entire series.

Making the "fans like them, but they're not very important to the narrative if at all" as DLC isn't a terrible approach in theory.
Fill the roster with all the plot relevant characters that appear in the story.... because the story is an important focus this time.
Then make the remaining characters who fans like that offer unique (enough) movesets and styles, but couldn't fit into the main story's plot, or are just fish out of water due to the timeline and are being reworked to fit them in and such isn't a bad idea.
It gives them time to focus on who and what matters to put together a good, coherent story, then expand what other characters were doing at certain points to give them things to do and be covered still in a single player mode.

Since I heard it could have upwards of 10 DLC characters.... thinking about it, that could fill up real quick.
Hilde, Setsuka, Seong Mi-Na, Hwang, Yun-Seong, Amy, Viola, ZWEI, Rock, and Li-Long would be the likely candidates, assuming they are not bringing Algol back at all.
That contains characters and styles people like, mixed with a few less popular characters that could benefit from a reintroduction of sorts.
What's old is new again would favor Rock, Hwang, and Li-Long if they did.

Don't take this as confirmation of definitely being a thing, but I did hear there might be a trial/combo challenge mode thing.
I'm not sure which icon that would line up with though. But I suppose it is worth considering thinking about if they do.

I think I can address this now.
Yes, that is why.
And the character who shared a voice actor voices a character on both SC and FE.
That Soul Calibur character was one of the 4 that were most recently revealed, and a veteran character.
People should be able to deduce that fairly fast.

As for a guest character, I just wanted to say that the two most requested characters for Tekken 7's guest character were Kazuma Kiryu from the Yakuza series and 2B from NieR: Automata.
Instead we got Noctis. Because.... reasons?
I still think it had something to do with executive meddling on Square Enix's part and pushing him on Harada instead of her. Or they cut some kind of deal where getting him on Tekken 7 meant they could use 2B on SCVI. Who knows.
But I don't think anyone should be surprised if her success as a requested character for Tekken 7 paves the way for her being on SCVI.

No, I don't know at this moment who any guest characters are from my main and most reliable source, so this is not some kind of hint or stealth confirmation from me. But this is an important factoid to consider with Tekken 7's most requested guest characters, and how 2B was someone people against her inclusion were only against her because "she'd fit better in Soul Calibur."
Oh if they only knew Noctis was awaiting them on the other side as the choice at the time. lol

Thinking out loud here, but this "Ozuru" person that is listed as his master, their name in Japanese means "Sorry."
If they're going with a romanized version and it's something like Øsel/Ösel (an island as mentioned earlier) then that's interesting because it could possibly be his dad and that's his name (I'll tell you now that I still don't know his official, decided upon name) and they're intentionally not revealing his dad by name in his bio, possibly for plot reasons.
Either way, this is stuff to keep in mind due to them putting it out there.

It's possible. The main thing I know about him and his dad is that Grøh has issues with him.
So that's kind of a vast interpretation, though easy to speculate about.
Maybe his dad abandoned him and Grøh didn't really know him, then comes back into his life or something to that degree after all this time could do it.
Or they just pull a damn Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker with those two. lol

If this person that is Grøh's master that is named Ozuru in Japanese, though not sure if that will be romanized or not, but if so, then possibly something like Øsel/Ösel, is actually also meant to also be his father, that would be kind of interesting since that word in Japanese means sorry.

Keeping in mind that whoever Grøh's father is, what I do know is that he is also playable, offers a new style for the series not meant to replace anyone moveset-wise, and that Grøh has issues with him. Plus something else that I can't get into, but don't worry about that.
So.... IF this Ozuru (at least in Japanese and pronunciation) person that's his master turns out to be his dad, his name being the Japanese word for "sorry" is kind of funny since Grøh has issues with this new character that is his father.

I'm not saying that she is. But she is back from what I've heard and told you guys before.
But I have no idea at the moment if that old idea of theirs will be revisited or not.
I guess keep it in mind?
It sounds like it was intended to express her character and style development by being in Astral Chaos though, which would have been interesting to see happy go lucky Cassandra change that much. Though I suppose they could've kept some of her signature moves and adapted them to the new style.
If someone has the time and the means, they should mod Cassandra to use to Darth Vader moveset on Soul Calibur IV. Just to give us an idea how that weird thing would even look with her. But I just can't mentally envision it without laughing at how stiff and serious that moveset would be for her. lol

I'm still in the camp that believes there's a chance he is, and Edge Master is being reintroduced under a new name similar to how Aeon Calcos was, with a new moveset as well like he got too.

Just like Marginal and WindupSkeleton said, I know some other things that I have yet to share but was advised not to, so I can't say anything about that until I'm given the clear to. Aside from that, I don't know EVERYTHING. I don't know the entire roster as of this moment for instance.
I've said that before too. I only know what I'm told.

Otherwise, I'm in the same boat as you and having to wait and see things play out with the things I have been told and divulged.
Plus what I was not aware of being revealed too. So it's just as exciting and interesting to see things get revealed, despite me knowing things.
The only difference for me personally is that things I know being revealed feels more validating in the excitement to see it be revealed.
It's not like I can't be surprised or excited though. Far from it.

I don't know all the details like what characters look like before they're revealed, or many gameplay details about specific characters aside from Grøh so far, which was a special case in general that I was informed so much about him ahead of time about him using the weapon that he does and how it works, him being edgelordy, an assassin, and Kilik's rival. I knew about both voice actors voicing him too.
I had no idea what his design actually looked like until he was revealed, or that he had that Soul Charge transformation. The info I was told were like bullet points to the whole of the character itself.

Like I know about Grøh's dad, and that Grøh has issues with him, but not much else aside from something I can't share yet. So I'll be as surprised as you are when he gets revealed.
Of course I knew about Soul Charge being a V-Trigger like mechanic this time around too, but not what every character I know's does.
When it comes to this game, I just happened to be fortunate enough to know a good deal about the new game in a series I'm very passionate about like you.

I got a response from my main SCVI source regarding that stuff:
"They know about Groh's father, which shows they have some info right and 22 Characters sounds about right, but I was under the impression it was going to be 24 on launch. I did say Hwang had WAAAAYYY more chance of making it in over Yunseong to you.
His SC6 info while I can't confirm it does sound believable. I would just call it a rumor for now though and not confirmed.
I can't say anything about the Guest Character either, but I feel like I have seen something about Zoro in relation to this game. I wasn't told the name of Groh's dad yet, even if he was just an adoptive father or not."

So it's up in the air. Take that new information I was given with a grain of salt since my proven source can't confirm anything just yet.
It's a curious rumor for the time being.

It's an unfortunate truth that they have you hook, line, and sinker when that type of thing is done. Even with characters you never would have regularly imagined being done with.
But guest characters have a place in launch rosters if they're meant solely for getting eyes on something.
Zoro being the guest character would get a ton of One Piece fan's eyes on SCVI and encourage them to try the game out.
One Piece is the best selling manga in history. Sure, the only place where One Piece hasn't been wildly successful is in America, but elsewhere, it's known and would be a big deal.
If anything, the only realistic manga character choices for Soul Calibur to ever get as guest characters would be someone from One Piece (Zoro being the obvious candidate due to using swords plus his popularity), Guts (Berserk), and Future Trunks (Dragon Ball Z) because they're all from popular manga (and anime) that have the realistic ability of pulling in people's attention from outside of something's typical fanbase.

Like I said, guest characters are meant to get eyes on something else that may not regularly be paying attention to or a fan of that thing.
Getting one of the main characters from the best selling manga in history isn't anything to overlook or scoff at the idea of when you consider the impact it could have.
If that person is to be believed, and we're getting another guest character as DLC, but a female character, it's hard for me to think it's not 2B.
NieR: Automata sold over 2 million copies and has a strong fanbase and fan request for her being SCVI's guest character as is already.
She was the second most requested character to be Tekken 7's guest under Kazuma Kiryu. But we all know how that went.
The point is that 2B would be a feel good moment that would have fans feeling validated as their requests didn't fall on deaf ears and serves to appeal to NieR: Automata and 2B fans that might not have been into Soul Calibur to begin with, they'd feel arsed to check it out now because of her.

The "SCVI is also coming to Switch and Link is on it" source was someone completely different.
I haven't talked to them since a little after SCVI got revealed and they claimed it would still get revealed later. Personally don't want to waste my time giving them anymore attention anyway since they either knew information that was only discussed and not planned at all yet, or were just bullshitting but knew just enough about SCVI's existence, yet hoping using me to spark the interest would will it into existence.

The whole "there might be a Fire Emblem guest character" thing was just speculation based on a voice actor my main SCVI source heard about based on a character who's since been revealed for SCVI who also voices a popular Fire Emblem character. This was before SCVI was formally revealed. Soon after they found out who the character was in particular and it erased the speculation entirely (it was Xianghua)

As I said, this person who contacted me earlier was completely new. If anyone cares, they claimed to have worked for Bandai Namco and felt they were wrongfully terminated and had an axe to grind and actually didn't sign any NDAs because they fired them before they ever even had them sign them (they had a short tenure with the company working with localization) so they got into contact with me as a surrogate since I'm a leaker who also speaks German.
It was a pretty weird and out of nowhere personal message they sent me with this list of various leaks of things too. lol
If what they said is all true though, well, I don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

I hope that IF THIS IS TRUE and Zoro is, that they keep his features, but make him look realistic anime styled like SC is.
I've seen fanart do this kind of thing for him before. If they do that, it's perfectly fine and ol' Mosshead will fit in.
Also, I can't imagine his reveal trailer not being some fancy shit with him versus Mitsurugi having a dramatic samurai battle.
The reveal trailer idea writes itself.

If you want my opinion and speculation on the matter.... again, assuming that person was actually telling the truth to me, then I could easily see 2B being that second guest since it's a female character who's highly requested, and was originally highly requested to be Tekken 7's third guest character, being second most requested only to Kazuma Kiryu. Annnd neither was chosen there for that.
Which brings me to another point....
When has the fanbase ever highly requested (or rallied for) a guest character for Soul Calibur and actually got them before?

Soul Calibur guest characters specialize in the WTF factor and unexpectedness, but are popular and bring some kind of reaching interest with every one of them, with no single criteria being repeated yet.
If 2B does wind up being a guest character, I would quicker believe she come later than originally being the one at launch.
I suppose my point is that I've had some time to process and reflect on the possibility since it's still an uncertainty and none of my Bamco contacts can currently confirm or deny any of the things that person sent me, so all I'm left with is to think "Well, what if?"

And that "what if?" brought those thoughts there.

I got some very interesting new information back from my main SCVI source. Nothing that can confirm or deny those recent "former Bandai Namco employee" leaks still, which they said they're still working on and fishing around to see if they can find anything to help us know the status on those.
But the new information was pretty plentiful, so I'm going to do my best to paraphrase:

■ Project Soul and Bandai Namco specifically don't want some kind of Lost Swords situation to happen again and want a closer connection to the community.
They are wanting to see what real fans of the series want, and are trying not to confuse the demands of random people that played a or Soul Calibur games when they were younger but just lost interest and would never buy a Soul Calibur game otherwise.
Basically, they're tuning out the ludicrous demands.
The problem is they might be having issues differentiating things like Team Battle as what long term, real fans desire with what the fans they're tuning out want. So, if you want things like Team Battle and other things they ditched that were on SC1, II, and III that helped with the "soul" of what older Soul Calibur games were, I can't stress enough to please be vocal and come together to let them know what you want.

■ There are people that they have hired to manage social media and browse around with the intent of collecting data and opinions of what people are saying about the game and the series in general.
Most specifically they are paying attention to us here at 8WayRun, the youtubers Maximilian Dood, Aris, Dynasty, and TwoBestFriendsPlay, and threads about my leaks, which apparently directly impacted things like Zasalamel not being a DLC character, which was planned until the response to that was universally panned.
Hopefully the panning of the mere idea of Cervantes being DLC isn't falling on deaf ears if that "former employee" leak is actually true.
Anyways those things and people mentioned are who and what they are most closely following and paying attention to to get the best idea of public opinion and what people want in the game from various types of playerbases:
Casual fighting game players and gamers in general, fighting game veterans that don't play Soul Calibur, and Soul Calibur veteran players are an example to let you know what playerbases they're looking at.
Furthermore they are browsing places like reddit, 2ch, and 4chan to see what people are saying unfiltered as those are places they feel people post some of their most uncensored thoughts that they feel they don't always on Youtube, beit as videos or on comments on videos, or streams.

■ The character design and battle planning team apparently have voiced some regrets for character designs that they and apparently one from Okubo himself wishes they had an opportunity to include in the game.
Those being character styles like a "traditional and semi realistic" swordsman using real sword techniques that aren't usually in video games.
They were given examples like "Half-Swording and the Murder Stroke" specifically.
They actually cited the game For Honor as inspiration for this, as well as a couple people as part of the battle team getting into American Medieval Sword Fighting via youtube channels dedicated to it. Things like ScholaGladitoria does. They said they don't think it means they specifically watch things from that channel, but was at least given as an idea as to what they meant. But I guess it could've meant that one. I found that interesting regardless.

While that part was interesting and all, most interesting is that there is apparently one character design that A LOT of people on the dev team wish they ended up doing, but ultimately decided against, at least for the time being. I take it this character has no chance of making the launch roster at all because of that.
But there was apparently a lot of the Japanese design team into the "large and muscular women" character type idea and the "dark skinned women" archetype that they noticed is popular now in fighting games with many of the new installments in major franchises including one like Guilty Gear (Ramlethal), Street Fighter (Menat), and Tekken (Master Raven). And even non-fighting game characters like Urbosa.
They said that some of the people working on the game are fans of an artist called 23 who also goes by sela_god and Real XXIII, and that some of their work that's of big, muscular, dark skinned women was inspiring said female character design to some extent that they wanted to put in the game but didn't have the opportunity to.
I had to look up who this artist they mentioned was, but fair share of warning it is NSFW lol
https://danbooru.donmai.us/posts?tags=23_(real_xxiii)
https://danbooru.donmai.us/artists/118297

It makes me wonder if because this "large and muscular dark skinned woman" character idea was one they passed on, that it means SCVI had a new female character addition planned, but because she didn't wind up being chosen, SCVI isn't getting a new female character this time around for a change?
I still find it a little strange that I've heard about Grøh, Grøh's dad, and even Maxi's lover if he's also a playable character when it comes to new characters, but still no new female until this now. I don't know if the game is getting one or not yet, as I've said before. But I know that a lot of people are suspicious and worrying that there might not be one for a change.
It really makes me wonder if she was going to be it, but they ultimately and regretfully had to pass on her.
If you're interested in either or both of these new character types, a large and muscular dark skinned woman or a more traditional semi realistic swordsman style using character that uses "Half-Swording and the Murder Stroke," I'd recommend to be vocal about it so they know that people actually would've liked these things. They might revisit these ideas as DLC characters if people support it enough.

■ I was told specifically that it would benefit the game by sharing this because if there is enough demand for those kinds of characters, they might do it and include them down the line or get the content creators and communities a lot more vocal about what they want to see in the game and how Bandai Namco treats the community, knowing that they ARE listening.
Since apparently the creators and communities are pretty silent about what they want to see happen and just discuss what's already in the game, I'm tasked to, in layman's terms, help bring it together by sharing this information with you as it helps everyone.
Them, us, and the game itself.

You weren't around for all my very specific and confirmed details about Grøh (the only two things still not confirmed is that he's outright Kilik's rival in the story and that Grøh's dad is also in the game and playable, but everything else I was told and leaked has been, even his voice actors) prior to his reveal even being teased at the end of the game's announcement trailer or that Soul Charge would now be a V-Trigger like mechanic, were you?

Weeeeeeeeelllllllllllllllllll.... I suppose I should open with some new information I got:
Geralt won't be the only guest character.
I don't have any information passed that. So it's unknown if the other guest will be launch or DLC, much less who they even are.
But I figured I'd open with the potentially controversial thing first since I know guest characters are a mileage may vary thing.
All I can say is that Tekken 7 taught them a lot of things. Which is funny considering Soul Calibur was the series originally known for that kind of thing thanks to SCII.

have no idea what they'd be doing with Cassandra though if they felt they wanted to change her any though. I brought it up once before, but an odd and overlooked thing about Cassandra was that she was another character alongside Zasalamel and Talim that were planned and intended to be on SCV, but shit happened. The difference is that with her, they had some crazy idea of giving her a moveset that was a repurposed version of Darth Vader's from SCIV (like how Aeon got a repurposed version of Kratos')
I have no idea if that idea would be revisited for Cassandra on SCVI or that will remain one of those odd cutting room floor things.
But the only reason I could imagine why that was an idea for her was due to her being in Astral Chaos and her character developing to be quite a bit different than the Cassandra of old.

I've touched on it before, but just because I haven't heard anything about Voldo, Raphael, Lizardman/Aeon, Yoshimitsu, Cervantes, and Setsuka yet from my main SCVI source does not mean they won't be on SCVI.
They don't know everything. But they do pass on what they do know and hear to me.
In short, not hearing about them yet isn't necessarily some kind of automatic evidence of absence.

We do know straight from Okubo that SCVI will be retelling SC1 and II, and before Okubo even admitted SCII was a part of that, that from my SCVI source that the game will also be including Soul Edge/Blade and SCIII along with the retelling.
Zasalamel's reveal confirmed that SCIII is just as they said, included along with it.
They told me of Tira, who also has been a prevalent villain character ever since her introduction on III. So it's easy to see why her and Zasalamel were two of the SCIII additions they picked.

My not hearing about Setsuka coming back yet, like I said, doesn't mean she isn't, but she also isn't that important to the story, which SCVI is putting a strong focus on. Her being saved as a DLC character wouldn't be surprising at all since they have priorities of who is most and more important to the story that needs to be on the launch roster.

Which brings me to a character like Raphael. He was important to SCII's story. That should logically guarantee him a spot in the retelling. Especially with Talim coming back (who was never important to the main plot at all) and Sophitia's sister Cassandra too as SCII reps that I do know about and have heard.
Cervantes was the main villain of Soul Edge/Blade and has stayed fairly relevant to the story and as Ivy's father and foil since her introduction on SC1.
Voldo and Lizardman/Aeon have their dedicated roles as lackey type villains that the story benefits from. Lizardman's appearance leads to be able to make generic ones you could fight in the story as well.
Keep in mind that Astaroth and Lizardmen are who and what attacked Maxi's crew in the original version of the story.
Yoshimitsu's kind of just Yoshimitsu doing Yoshimitsu things. So it'd be surprising to see him not make it only because he never missed a game since introduced on SC1 and is an iconic character for the company doing double duty on Tekken and Soul Calibur.

I worded it kind of weirdly when I talked about Aeon getting stuff from Kratos to get the point across, but what you said is completely correct.
From a story perspective, it did make sense for him to.
Cassandra was such a weird thing because I can only imagine her being more serious and/or evil, training with Edge Master while in there helping result in her shifting her moveset style. But I think that in general that would have had such a strange reception and reaction from the fans because it's easy to assume she'd even lose a lot of her trademark moves in the transition along with her personality. Which would may have not gone over well because it would feel like "Cassandra in name only."
I think the idea of someone inheriting the Darth Vader moveset isn't a bad idea. In particular a new character addition entirely doing that.
I think that Cassandra wasn't exactly the best choice at all for that and I am glad that didn't happen because that would have been another polarizing decision to add to the pile of those that SCV had.

Anyways, looking into the story and lore that didn't actually make it into the game, there were clearly plans for Cassandra and her being in Astral Chaos on SCV, but none of that got to be highlighted or explored in-game outside of the media that talked about those things. Which is a damn shame since Astral Chaos played a role in the game, but seemed so rushed even for how rushed the story already was to begin with. It being something related to Pat, you figure it would have actually got to make it in. But like I said, shit happened with the earthquake, funding, and fiscal reports, so the game was rushed and served undercooked.

I have noticed that when it comes to the press stuff, Okubo seems to be coming off a little inconsistent in ways. Saying the game is a retelling of the first Soul Calibur, then 1 and 2, then Zasalamel gets revealed making it feel as if you're a fan not following what I've said and leaked out there about it before he ever even confirmed SCII is part of it, it can unintentionally come across like they're not sure what they're doing and coming up with things on the fly.
That kind of press stuff never made sense to me.
Like I've told you, SCVI is a retelling 1 and 2 with aspects of Soul Edge and SCIII tied in and highlighted too.
Why he couldn't just say that is kind of dumb to me because it can build up a weird relationship with the consumer and their viewpoint of the product sometimes because it only serves to confuse them and point out the inconsistencies.
It's something that happens with games and has for a long time. I can understand it "spoiling" their surprises, like Zasalamel by saying that the game will do that.
But it doesn't make it any less a strange brand of bad interview etiquette to be inconsistent or contradictory.
I've seen it happen more times than I can count where fans focus on weird interview "errors" because they start to not know what to take at face value by a developer when oddities like that occur.

As I've said before, when it comes to my main SCVI source, those are the only two new characters that I know of that I was explicitly told would be playable. Because that's the extent of what they know and have been able to share on that front.
There's the case of Maxi's lover that they told me about too, but I have no idea if he's playable or what his name is.
Now, if we're actually taking anything that "former Bandai Namco employee" claims, then the guy is and named Jacker. But you already know my opinion and skepticism on that person and why I'm not putting much stock in what they've said.

And from my main SCVI source there was that "big, dark skinned muscular woman" character concept that I was told about, which could make it into the game at some point, but that was an idea left on the cutting room floor from what they were told and thus I was told.
So I wouldn't count on her making it into the game at launch.
I still find it weird if there is no new female character added to the roster at launch on SCVI. That would be a first for the series.
But I've already accepted that possibility. Weird as it is to not happen for a change. We're at least prepared for it if so.

As I've said before, when it comes to my main SCVI source, those are the only two new characters that I know of that I was explicitly told would be playable. Because that's the extent of what they know and have been able to share on that front.
There's the case of Maxi's lover that they told me about too, but I have no idea if he's playable or what his name is.
Now, if we're actually taking anything that "former Bandai Namco employee" claims, then the guy is and named Jacker. But you already know my opinion and skepticism on that person and why I'm not putting much stock in what they've said.

And from my main SCVI source there was that "big, dark skinned muscular woman" character concept that I was told about, which could make it into the game at some point, but that was an idea left on the cutting room floor from what they were told and thus I was told.
So I wouldn't count on her making it into the game at launch.
I still find it weird if there is no new female character added to the roster at launch on SCVI. That would be a first for the series.
But I've already accepted that possibility. Weird as it is to not happen for a change. We're at least prepared for it if so.

Nothing should (and if there is any remote deity in existence) ever be as bad as the Fire Emblem fanbase.
They're a two-headed snake that can't decide if they want to attack eachother or eat its own tail.

I've said it before, but just because I haven't personally heard that Yoshimitsu, Lizardman/Aeon, Raphael, or Cervantes are in from my main SCVI source yet doesn't automatically mean they're not in. At worst be cautious.

I hate to add on to the Dynasty thing for a moment, but I feel obligated to since I was the one who was told and put it out there that Bandai Namco is paying attention to him and his content. I don't think it's given him an ego about it exactly, but it goes without saying that he's taken that responsibility on more for better or worse since.
I will say that if you don't like how he does things, and you're passionate about SC, regardless of if you're someone with a recognized name among the community or not.... I'd recommend going out of your way to create content. Especially if you think (and know) you can do better.

I'm thinking the same since those make too much sense as DLC, whether people like it or not. Hilde obvious included since I had even specifically been told she would be. Which again, makes too much sense because she's from SCIV.
I guess my worry is there's always the possibility that they think one of those four (Raphael, Cervantes, Yoshimitsu, and Lizardman/Aeon) get sliced off and sold as DLC just to have a (controversial) incentive character for the Season Pass that they know people will feel obligated to get.
I don't like that kind of business practice at all. But it unfortunately works and companies care more about that kind of thing than anything.
The DLC being middling to lower end popularity characters with a character everyone can agree has name value and the track record they have since introduced to help sell the pass just feels like some kind of inevitability nowadays with games.

I don't know the reveal order, but for those that were worried he (Voldo) wouldn't be on the game, worry not.

Yes, those are the ones still not revealed that I know of. As I said before and will say again, I still don't know the full roster. But putting it all together who I've leaked, it's becoming a bit easier and easier to figure out who the ones that haven't been leaked to me will likely wind up being there.

It was mentioned on an earlier page in this thread because it was briefly discussed again, but Cassandra is the only one that's not a hard yes like all the others I've been leaked as she was leaked by proxy of the wording my source gave me when Lost Swords characters were mentioned and who is being carried over and who isn't, with her named as one of the characters who is most likely appearing that was in that, but wasn't part of SCV.

As you know, Seong Mi-Na was the one who was said to probably not for reasons I'm not sure of exactly other than story irrelevance probably hurting her chances as a launch roster character due to SCVI's strong story focus.

Then there's the Amy and Viola thing, which is an uncertainty and not completely clear on what's going on with them other than murmurings that Viola will replace Amy from now on and nothing known for sure if whichever version they go with winds up being launch or DLC. But with characters from III-V said to be saved as DLC, it's obvious that the most popular carryover from SCV would be Viola.

It's more the suspicion of everyone else that's been said to be in (Kilik, Xianghua, Siegfried, Nightmare, Grøh, Ivy, Taki, Talim, Tira, Voldo, Maxi, Astaroth, Grøh's Papi, and later the update on Zasalamel's status being switched around) were leaked to me with certainty.
Cassandra was never a hard yes and 100% confirmation like all those others.
Only the specific note eluding to her along with the roster having a connection to who was on Lost Swords being carried over and who wasn't.
Cassandra will be on it, but I guess they could swap her with someone else if it came to it is probably the line to read between.
It doesn't sound like that's happening since I was never specifically told she's being viewed like that, but until I get a 100% confirmation from them that she's in like all the others, she's the only one I would say be a little suspicious of her status until I do hear something more certain.
I'm sure they're smart enough to know people want Cassandra back as a launch character to be there with Sophitia.

That is the list of characters, yes. I trickled down a lot of the character leaks though as opposed to a lot all at once because that's not how the information was given to me.
Cassandra is in an odd spot of being leaked to me but not in the same way as all the others.
Cervantes is a character I don't know the status of yet. The only reason why him being DLC became a fear in the first place was due to something a "former Bandai Namco employee" came to me with that exists in a vacuum because it has nothing to do with my main SCVI source, and Cervantes not being revealed with Ivy having people worried.

The only real overlap that had me consider any realm of possibility to it is the "former Bandai Namco employee" claims that Maxi's lover (who I prior to that leaked would be gay on SCVI from what I'd been told) would be playable and named Jacker, Grøh's dad (another character I leaked prior) would be named Friderich, Talim (who I leaked previously), and Hwang (was not leaked anything about him being playable, but was told he would most likely come back instead of Yun-Seong when the time comes, but I never said anything about this openly before) which was the only reason I gave it the remote time of day. But they were probably just trying to placate me and what I'd said already to make themselves sound more credible.

I was never told by my main SCVI source what Maxi's male lover's name is. Only the person who claimed to be a "former Bandai Namco employee" claimed to know it (which was after I already leaked that Maxi would be gay, so they were likely trying to placate me) which that "former Bandai Namco employee" claimed was Jacker. Which happens to be the name of a character from the old SC1 manga that was a member of Maxi's pirate crew.
My main SCVI source still doesn't know Maxi's lover's name.
But they sure are sprinkling in the hints with some subtlety that he's gay as some people here have already pointed out.

And now, we look onward to E3 for more info and reveals! :)

I revealed earlier that the newcomer that is Kilik's rival, and has a style switching between two movesets that are two swords that he can fight with or put them together and fight that way (Darth Maul style) is a guy.
As for the other newcomer?
Only because I was told to not give away too much about them at the moment.
One of my sources actually broke the news about the new guy before me last night on reddit, which was the all clear for me to go ahead and do it further.

I've asked about quite a few but haven't really gotten much in way of actual responses aside from Voldo and some various things like debunking that one "leaked release date" for instance.
If you have been paying attention, you might have noticed I've basically been laying low with SCVI info in comparison to how I was before a certain post in late February. I'm not getting a wealth of information anymore due to a certain thing that happened that I can't outright address. But there are less than a handful of people here who do know.

With that said, this is totally unrelated to my own stuff, but something that popped up online last month which flew under the radar until recently that are two seemingly separate claims about SCVI at E3 related leaks that came out of 4chan. To say we should proceed with caution is an understatement. But here are the two links:
https://boards.fireden.net/v/thread/416886442/
https://boards.4chan.org/v/thread/417281757/two-e3-leaks-for-you#p417281757
What both are claiming are 4 characters shown at E3: Talim, Hilde, Salia, and Calynpolk.
Salia is claimed to be "frenemies with Hilde and is another rapier user like Raph & Amy but has some Cervantes Style drill & teleport flash attacks" and Calynpolk is said to be a big fat priest with a mace.

I actually have been pestering some both my original SCVI source (who went a few months without saying anything to me until they also heard about Voldo) and my main SCVI source to see if they have heard anything that lines up with those claims.
I've also contacted some other people who are aware of E3 stuff ahead of time.
By process of elimination, if I can find out there is a new Final Fantasy Tactics game being announced, then that essentially could confirm the SCVI stuff.
But this is all assuming I get lucky and anyone has heard anything that relates to either or those two claims. Otherwise we're just waiting about a week and a half to find out. That isn't so painful.

To actually analyze the "leak" if we're entertaining any possibility of truth in it, I heard about Talim and leaked her getting in what seems like forever ago now. So I don't really need to comment on that.

Hilde is someone I heard would be saved as DLC because the roster wouldn't exceed SCIII for the launch roster.
To quote what I'd heard a little more than 5 months ago "a lot of the SCIII-V characters will be reserved for DLC. Hilde is likely one of them."
But people do like her and it wouldn't be that big of a deal to slide her in. Let alone do what happened to Zasalamel and take a character that was more planned to be DLC bait and swap them to launch because the work was already being done concurrently with development. So this is one I feel is a bit of a red flag about this in a way, but until I can hopefully hear something that can confirm or deny it, I am only left with speculation.

Salia is kind of an odd one for me. I still haven't heard about Raphael at all despite my badgering about him. Whether that means anything, I have no idea because I'd asked about Voldo for a while until I was able to finally get a yes from both. So absence of evidence isn't always evidence of absence. But if you recall, Amy was someone I was told there is a chance she might just appear as Viola from now on, but they currently have no confirmation of that for sure.
The Cervantes move references they talk about is very weird too. I also haven't heard anything concrete about Cervantes yet either, but I don't think (hope) that means anything.
It's strange but I guess is somewhat curious to think if there is any kind of connection between those things and Salia would kind of be "replacing" characters essentially.

Calynpolk would be the fat character and mace user people have been asking for for years. In some cases, a fat mace user. Which I do recall seeing requests for throughout the years.

Since I know you people are much smarter than some places I post things and have a better grasp on reading comprehension, you understand this is purely for discussion. Like I have said, I currently cannot say one way or another at the moment whether or not there is anything at all to this supposed "leak" right now.
But it does give us something to think and talk about until they do their E3 reveals or I (hopefully) get some kind of confirmation or denial of what was said. E3 is not far away at all though. So we won't be wondering for too long.

I don't know if there's a connection to Grøh's father being.... his father in the literal sense a father like a priest as well. I actually asked about that before but got nothing edgewise in return in knowing if he was.

I looked into it too and looking that name "Calynpolk" up only comes back in that form of one name together like that bringing up both 4chan threads.
"Calynpolk" isn't Norwegian, if that matters. It's not even a name by itself. But a mixture of names combined of different origins.
Calyn = 'pure' and is typically a name for girls and alternate form of Caitlin, which is of Old French & Greek origin.
Polk is the German ethnic name for a Pole (Polak) and Scottish reduced form of Pollock, but Polk in German (of Slavic origin) also comes from an altered pet form of the Slavic personal name Boleslav, composed of the elements bole 'great', 'large' and slav 'glory.'
This name Polk was "apparently a favorite during the Middle Ages among the gentry class in Silesia."
Combined, Calynpolk would mean their name means pure glory, or things like "great purity" or "large purity."

Fygul Cestemus priests are crazy and cult-like religious which could fit with the batshit craziness of Matt Hardy's broken/woken character thing since it has the whole "enlightenment" aspect to it, which while things like Buddhism are all about, a good number of cults do too. Unless I'm looking too far into that aspect, and it instead means like what you said, which is a new character looks like Matt Hardy, presumably Grøh's dad maybe?
Grøh has two toned hair. Maybe his dad might have the same kind of thing going on, but more like Matt Hardy's instead?

Grøh's Papi is one of the bosses in the story.

In case you were curious, this is the general English speaking staff opinion on who are the strongest characters in the E3 build (in no order):
Siegfried, Nightmare, Mitsurugi, Kilik, Grøh, and Xianghua.
The weakest in general opinion is Geralt, Sophitia, and Zasalamel. Weakest shouldn't be regarded as low tier though since they're still very strong.
Meaning that Ivy, Taki, Maxi, and Yoshimitsu are apparently somewhere inbetween those two "dividers."

I want to clarify on the Raphael fans sweating regarding him statement for a moment. I was further informed that can be taken one of two ways. "No Raphael" or Raphael is really bad. But as you all know, historically Raphael has been awful outside of SCII. So it sounds more like Raphael isn't in. :/
To add some more information I heard, 23/24 characters is confirmed for the finalized roster.
At least one of the DLC characters is a guest (no surprise that's happening)
The other two DLC characters "aren't really relevant in the story."
No clues on anyone of those DLC characters particularly yet, but I was told it's not any of the mages from The Witcher and probably not another Witcher character.

The spear and shield thing was something that came up in a conversation here when talk of too many sword and shield users came up. Cassandra switching to a spear and shield could work for her if they intentionally wanted to do something to differentiate her a bit further from Sophitia while including another important aspect to the history of Greek combat. But I don't know anything specific at all about them doing that.
On SCV, they were however toying around with the idea of giving Cassandra a longsword style that would have taken animations from and repurposed things from Darth Vader's moveset before she got scrapped.

People were speculating about Grøh's papi recently so I'll reiterate what I know:
Grøh has "issues" with him.
He may also be Grøh's master.
He uses a new weapon/style and isn't replacing anybody.
He's one of the bosses in the storyline.
I know who is voicing him in both languages, but I won't say anything about that until after his reveal.

Something that stood out to me recently was hearing he may also be Grøh's master. Which could mean he's either a different master of his, or he's that "Ozuru" guy that they listed as his master on his profile on the official website.
Okubo likes Star Wars as evidenced by Grøh being inspired by Darth Maul (his interview with Shoryuken had him trying so hard to avoiding saying who inspired him, but that "movies" were his inspiration and that you could easily figure out who) so maybe there is some kind of Star Wars-like plot twist that will happen will him and the revelation of his dad. lol

Something vague I heard about Grøh's dad was that he might also be his master. Whether that means he's Ozuru/Odr or Grøh's dad just also trained Grøh, I don't know. But I did find it interesting when I was told that in passing.
Given Okubo likes Star Wars, I wouldn't put it passed them to do some kind of "Grøh, I am your father." moment.
Which reminds me......

Yeah I never got a full deconfirmation or confirmation for that matter of Seong Mi-Na way back in January when I posted that. Only that she'd "probably" not get into the launch roster. But the launch roster and DLC wasn't fully decided on and finalized until June. I still don't know the finalized launch roster or definitely who is DLC yet. Actively trying to find that out still.

But if you want to poke me with forks or even sporks too, that's fine. I can take it.

So I was told "There is something subtle on the character select no one is talking about, that not a single person noticed yet."
I'm going to prod to see if they will tell me what they mean by that. I don't think they meant the two layered circles linked to the lower left and right of the character select screen since that's been noticed before.

I was also told that Seong Mi-Na wasn't originally planned for EVO alongside Astaroth, it was to be Cervantes (who I heard about just before EVO and posted about on reddit) but they bumped her reveal up since she was meant to be one of the final reveals. The "randomness" of her and Astaroth revealed together was because that wasn't intended to be revealed yet.
Her reveal was bumped up to take a pot shots at the leaks since I never heard anything about her other than that "probably not" back in late 2017 concerning her status.

Groh's Dad voice actor is Taliesin Jaffe

It was last year that I heard and shared here that Groh would have "daddy issues" and not get along with his father character that would also be part of the story, use a new and unique moveset, and be playable.

Great news they're taking it under consideration. It would help SCVI's overall success out a lot to get it on Switch later. Especially if they add exclusive content and a Nintendo guest character. Updating Link's old moveset to match Breath of the Wild would really be the smartest thing they could do. It's kind of funny to think about, since they could alter the box art and place Link on the Switch version cover art between Mitsurugi and Geralt.

As for Geralt, his games not being on Nintendo platforms doesn't matter. Phoenix Wright made it on to UMvC3 despite his games only being on Nintendo platforms up to that point.

If Hwang and Lizardman aren't patched in or free downloads, then it looks like the original plans they had for the season pass changed due to time constraints or corporate meddling, and the season pass is Tira, Hwang, Lizardman and some kind of huge deal guest character.

 

[WuHT]

thats a lot of copy and pasting sir

 

[Klimat]

Did he actually call Grøh, or did he say there would be an edgy character after the teaser that showed Grøh's arm and weapon? Because even I could have said he was edgy based on that.

He said there is a new character who is an edgy guy with a dual bladed weapon a-la Darth Maul that also splits in two parts. He shared that information months before the trailer arrived, not after.

 

[Spanky]

thats a lot of copy and pasting sir

@WuHT

@LisaK is 8WayRun's researcher! :) indeed it does take lots of copy and pasting.

 

[Crash X]

thats a lot of copy and pasting ma’am.

Fixed.

 

[RyujiSakamoto]

 

[FluffyQuack]

I think it's unfair to discredit him that much. I mean his leaks were very early on that it wouldn't be strange if those were potential ideas that were just scrapped.

He was good in keeping whatever leftover faith the community had on a sequel before it's actual announcement. He predicted Groh in an uncanny way. He also predicted the inclusion of many characters like Taki, Zasalamel, Cervantes, Azwel, etc. Some might have had details that didn't necessarily come true like Zas or Cervantes being DLC or Azwel being Groh's dad (even tho they're not strangers either, so i think it might've been a serious thought at some point).

You have to realize that in early stages of development, lots of crazy thoughts and suggestions usually get tossed. Like how Dante was supposed to be a guest character for SCII, or how Taki and Mitsurugi were supposed to be replaced in that game as well.

I personally appreciate him and hope to see him again in 4 years when we lose hope on waiting for SCVII.

Yeah, I think people have been too harsh on Vergeben. He definitely had legit sources, but I think the mistake he did was that he did a lot of speculation (and sometimes it was difficult to tell the stuff he was claiming true was speculation or not) and occasionally getting something super wrong.

If he was more careful what he said and made it extra apparent what was speculation and what was details told to him via insiders, then I think it would have gone better.

The Resident Evil community is actually through a similar thing right now. Dusk Golem on Twitter has inside sources with details about unannounced RE titles, and Dusk Golem has been relaying those details on Twitter. So he has a lot of people from the RE community paying close attention to the stuff he's saying, but they're also very quick to start calling him a fraud if anything he says turns out be false.

 

[Rusted Blade]

He definitely had legit sources...

Did he though? See this is the part I find most questionable, because looking at that compilation of edits, you can see there is a lot of variation in how he presents the nature of his supposed connections. In particular, I call horseshit whenever he begins to imply that he is some kind of official conduit for news, as in where he says he has details he can't reveal until he is "given the clearance" to reveal these details. I'm sorry, but that just does not add up: if these were leaks and someone on the development or marketing staff took the (frankly highly unlikely) decision to just give him this information, it would be unlikely that they would be exercising that kind of graded/gradual control over how he released the content. And it's even more dubious to think that Namco would give some random dude on the interwebs the position of spooning out that information.

On top of that, he later switches tact and starts asserting that some inconsistencies and the manner in which he has released information is because it came to him in a trickle. The story he is attempting to paint about his supposed sources is not only inconsistent, there's also the fact that no single explanation adds up even on its own, despite how little specificity he gives about who those sources are. I think it becomes pretty likely, when you take the evidence together, that he is kind of frantically pivoting to excuse the shortcomings and inaccuracies in his predictions as people became more and more suspicious of his assertions as to having an inside line.

Of course, there is always Groh, the one thing he did predict ahead of previous reveals that anyone here was aware of. But I suspect that if a person had enough patience with the Wayback Machine and combing through Japanese fan sites, we would discover that this detail was already leaked somewhere in the Japanese media/fandom, that Vergeben seized upon it and used it as a platform to gather attention for his other various predictions, which were all either things that absolutely failed to bear out (such as a switch version, various supposed characters that never materialized and were always unlikely), or roughly predictable things which were mixed-bag accurate/inaccurate (such as the returning legacy characters).

Then again, as I said before, it is at least possible that Vergeben himself was being gamed and that his 'source' was trolling the larger community through him. After-all, it's worth noting that much of his wild speculation he labels as just that: speculation. And then other content that didn't bear out he labels as a leak. It's also within the realm of possibility that he simply guessed that there would a dual-blade weapon wielder (something which he openly admits he had been hoping for/predicting for some time). I doubt we'll ever know the precise truth, but I feel pretty confident in saying that he never had direct contact with anyone actually directly privy to Project Soul/Namco's in-house information. That is by far the least likely of the possible scenarios here, especially considering he was getting about one in thirty of his predictions correct and some of them are pretty obviously things that were never, never going to happen.

 

[FluffyQuack]

Did he though? See this is the part I find most questionable, because looking at that compilation of edits, you can see there is a lot of variation in how he presents the nature of his supposed connections. In particular, I call horseshit whenever he begins to imply that he is some kind of official conduit for news, as in where he says he has details he can't reveal until he is "given the clearance" to reveal these details. I'm sorry, but that just does not add up: if these were leaks and someone on the development or marketing staff took the (frankly highly unlikely) decision to just give him this information, it would be unlikely that they would be exercising that kind of graded/gradual control over how he released the content. And it's even more dubious to think that Namco would give some random dude on the interwebs the position of spooning out that information.

On top of that, he later switches tact and starts asserting that some inconsistencies and the manner in which he has released information is because it came to him in a trickle. The story he is attempting to paint about his supposed sources is not only inconsistent, there's also the fact that no single explanation adds up even on its own, despite how little specificity he gives about who those sources are. I think it becomes pretty likely, when you take the evidence together, that he is kind of frantically pivoting to excuse the shortcomings and inaccuracies in his predictions as people became more and more suspicious of his assertions as to having an inside line.

Of course, there is always Groh, the one thing he did predict ahead of previous reveals that anyone here was aware of. But I suspect that if a person had enough patience with the Wayback Machine and combing through Japanese fan sites, we would discover that this detail was already leaked somewhere in the Japanese media/fandom, that Vergeben seized upon it and used it as a platform to gather attention for his other various predictions, which were all either things that absolutely failed to bear out (such as a switch version, various supposed characters that never materialized and were always unlikely), or roughly predictable things which were mixed-bag accurate/inaccurate (such as the returning legacy characters).

Then again, as I said before, it is at least possible that Vergeben himself was being gamed and that his 'source' was trolling the larger community through him. After-all, it's worth noting that much of his wild speculation he labels as just that: speculation. And then other content that didn't bear out he labels as a leak. It's also within the realm of possibility that he simply guessed that there would a dual-blade weapon wielder (something which he openly admits he had been hoping for/predicting for some time). I doubt we'll ever know the precise truth, but I feel pretty confident in saying that he never had direct contact with anyone actually directly privy to Project Soul/Namco's in-house information. That is by far the least likely of the possible scenarios here, especially considering he was getting about one in thirty of his predictions correct and some of them are pretty obviously things that were never, never going to happen.

I think the big things he got right was the timing for when the game would be announced and details about Groh (primarily about his weapon). People have also documented his writings about Smash, and it seems like he got more stuff right about that: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Vergeben_leaks

There's definitely a lot of stuff he got wrong, which I think are primarily his own speculation/extrapolation, or relaying information from an inside source who turned out to be a troll (I can remember at one point he said he had a new contact telling him stuff and everything related to that ended up being bogus).

There's some weird stuff I can't make sense of. He occasionally talked about scrapped ideas (multiple movesets per character, the female barbarian character, and etc), and not only do some of those ideas sound very unlikely to have ever been explored (no way did the development team have the budget to make multiple movesets per character), but how would he get into contact with a person who knows that kind of information? Surely stuff like that would be known by people very close to the game's development, and those aren't the people who would leak anything.

But I do believe there are MANY people who could end up getting in contact with someone and leak stuff. There are just so many people and companies involved in the development of a game. You have a huge marketing team, multiple localization teams, multiple QA teams, rating departments, voice actors and voice directors, focus tests, and etc. And many of those people are probably okay with leaking stuff, especially if they feel secure in the information never being traced back to them.

So I think he got in contact with someone who knew stuff about the game but wasn't directly involved with its development. I feel it's extremely unlikely he made up everything and just happened to be right about some key things.

 

[WuHT]

Fixed.

my bad..
i'm glad this aint twitter

 

[Rusted Blade]

I think the big things he got right was the timing for when the game would be announced and details about Groh (primarily about his weapon). People have also documented his writings about Smash, and it seems like he got more stuff right about that: https://www.ssbwiki.com/Vergeben_leaks

There's definitely a lot of stuff he got wrong, which I think are primarily his own speculation/extrapolation, or relaying information from an inside source who turned out to be a troll (I can remember at one point he said he had a new contact telling him stuff and everything related to that ended up being bogus).

Yup, the relevant post is here. But here's the thing: he never noted this distinction between which information came a from a "main" source and which this secondary and supposedly less reliable source until after people started to give pushback. It's awfully convenient that he shifts the failed speculation on to one supposed source to protect the apparent credibility of the 'main' source.

But let's give him the benefit of the doubt at least insofar as saying that he is not lying about the number of people who reached out to him and which delivered him which details. If that's the level of his vetting of his information (some random guy contacts him claiming to be an insider and delivers a pie-in-the-sky list of unlikely things he should have been dubious about and he just re-relates it without scrutiny or making those details readily apparent, how is that remotely different from the general rumour mill speculations of random fans?

I'm more than willing to contemplate that he got trolled (that's always been one of the stronger possibilities as far as I was concerned), but at a minimum, his choice of language in discussing these supposed leaks is pretty disingenuous and grandstanding, suggesting a level of reliability to his 'sources' and process that is just not remotely warranted; he took on the air of a psuedo-journalist when he was just a well-known rumor monger who may or may not have been contacted by someone with legitimate information once, but mostly just unflinchingly passed on nonsense without appropriate skepticism and while omitting details about details that were relevant to how much weight people should give that information--or just made it up or some combination of the two; we'll never really know what the real mixture was.

There's some weird stuff I can't make sense of. He occasionally talked about scrapped ideas (multiple movesets per character, the female barbarian character, and etc), and not only do some of those ideas sound very unlikely to have ever been explored (no way did the development team have the budget to make multiple movesets per character), but how would he get into contact with a person who knows that kind of information? Surely stuff like that would be known by people very close to the game's development, and those aren't the people who would leak anything.

But I do believe there are MANY people who could end up getting in contact with someone and leak stuff. There are just so many people and companies involved in the development of a game. You have a huge marketing team, multiple localization teams, multiple QA teams, rating departments, voice actors and voice directors, focus tests, and etc. And many of those people are probably okay with leaking stuff, especially if they feel secure in the information never being traced back to them.

So I think he got in contact with someone who knew stuff about the game but wasn't directly involved with its development. I feel it's extremely unlikely he made up everything and just happened to be right about some key things.

Yeah, true enough--though, there's a distinction there between his process and how (for example) you vetted the information you were just discussing in the DLC thread (but going back to the Reddit discussion ages ago); I wasn't around for that, but I think I would almost certainly have accepted your interpretation, because it was internally consistent, with contextual technical evidence that, while not absolutely dispositive, was pretty solid in that someone would have been having to think really far ahead with regard to who their audience was in order to trick the technically-proficient part of the community with the order of those names--a detail that would have been lost on the vast majority of fans. And most trolls just aren't that clever, that detail-oriented, or even that committed to tricking everybody when a fraction as much effort will suffice for misleading a significant number of people. And I think that's what the Vergeben situation emphasizes for us.

But the most critical difference was not the quality of the information itself, but the differing approach of the person evaluating and furthering the speculation: your reasoning was open and involved a rational and detailed analysis of why you thought the information was credible, which reasoning could be followed (and technical details tested) by anyone. You also were clear about the ultimate sources. Pretty much the opposite in every respect to how Vergeben approached similar issues.

Like you, I don't really like to call Verg a "liar" or a "fraud"; not because those terms are 100% inaccurate but just because they tend to me to feel just a bit too strong to describe his activities and the certainty we can have about his motives and how he approached this situation. But he obviously did construct an image of the seriousness of his information-gathering/evaluating process that doesn't hold up to scrutiny and I think it's only fair that some fair amount of shade gets thrown on his image as a result. But being outright reviled? Yeah, that's a bit much. We should just call him Verge-has-been and leave it at that.

 

[RyujiSakamoto]

did anyone actually believe that Maxi was going to be gay with "Jacker"? Or that Zoro from One Piece would be a guest?

 

[LisaK]

Or that Zoro from One Piece would be a guest?

Okubo in the last interview considered having an anime character in the game, let's do spam on his twitter is to make this leak real and make our friend Vergeben the God of Leaks.

 

[DanteSC3]

did anyone actually believe that Maxi was going to be gay with "Jacker"?

Jacker is a real character, though. As is Kalnypolok (the fat priest). Some of the “leaks” were just people trolling legitimate minor characters.

 

[FluffyQuack]

Yup, the relevant post is here. But here's the thing: he never noted this distinction between which information came a from a "main" source and which this secondary and supposedly less reliable source until after people started to give pushback. It's awfully convenient that he shifts the failed speculation on to one supposed source to protect the apparent credibility of the 'main' source.

But let's give him the benefit of the doubt at least insofar as saying that he is not lying about the number of people who reached out to him and which delivered him which details. If that's the level of his vetting of his information (some random guy contacts him claiming to be an insider and delivers a pie-in-the-sky list of unlikely things he should have been dubious about and he just re-relates it without scrutiny or making those details readily apparent, how is that remotely different from the general rumour mill speculations of random fans?

I'm more than willing to contemplate that he got trolled (that's always been one of the stronger possibilities as far as I was concerned), but at a minimum, his choice of language in discussing these supposed leaks is pretty disingenuous and grandstanding, suggesting a level of reliability to his 'sources' and process that is just not remotely warranted; he took on the air of a psuedo-journalist when he was just a well-known rumor monger who may or may not have been contacted by someone with legitimate information once, but mostly just unflinchingly passed on nonsense without appropriate skepticism and while omitting details about details that were relevant to how much weight people should give that information--or just made it up or some combination of the two; we'll never really know what the real mixture was.

Yeah, true enough--though, there's a distinction there between his process and how (for example) you vetted the information you were just discussing in the DLC thread (but going back to the Reddit discussion ages ago); I wasn't around for that, but I think I would almost certainly have accepted your interpretation, because it was internally consistent, with contextual technical evidence that, while not absolutely dispositive, was pretty solid in that someone would have been having to think really far ahead with regard to who their audience was in order to trick the technically-proficient part of the community with the order of those names--a detail that would have been lost on the vast majority of fans. And most trolls just aren't that clever, that detail-oriented, or even that committed to tricking everybody when a fraction as much effort will suffice for misleading a significant number of people. And I think that's what the Vergeben situation emphasizes for us.

But the most critical difference was not the quality of the information itself, but the differing approach of the person evaluating and furthering the speculation: your reasoning was open and involved a rational and detailed analysis of why you thought the information was credible, which reasoning could be followed (and technical details tested) by anyone. You also were clear about the ultimate sources. Pretty much the opposite in every respect to how Vergeben approached similar issues.

Like you, I don't really like to call Verg a "liar" or a "fraud"; not because those terms are 100% inaccurate but just because they tend to me to feel just a bit too strong to describe his activities and the certainty we can have about his motives and how he approached this situation. But he obviously did construct an image of the seriousness of his information-gathering/evaluating process that doesn't hold up to scrutiny and I think it's only fair that some fair amount of shade gets thrown on his image as a result. But being outright reviled? Yeah, that's a bit much. We should just call him Verge-has-been and leave it at that.

The more I look back at his posts, the more I find stuff that seems very absurd. He referenced the whole thing about Zasalamel and Talim being planned for SC5 (which was never true, and you don't need to do much research to find that there was never any source to that rumour). He randomly claims Namco planned to have Cassandra in SC5 using Darth Vader's moveset (not sure where he would get that from). He claimed characters had 2-3 movesets earlier in development (I'm willing to bet he assumed that from the "concept art" which got released a few years back which was never confirmed to be real concept art for SC6). He kept repeating that Azwel is Grøh's father. He kept repeating the whole thing about Maxi having a boyfriend dying in the game. He kept going back and forth about Cassandra. He randomly changed his mind about Zasalamel being in the game itself or being DLC (to be fair and for all we know, that could have been true, but there's zero evidence of it).

Looking back, there's no wonder he lost more and more credibility because he kept saying too many things which ended up being false or were very unbelievable to begin with, even though he got some things correct.

But I feel mean talking too much ill of him. I don't think he was trying to mislead people, I think he was just overly eager with speculation and extrapolation. And a part of me hopes Namco will actually keep things hidden for future content (if there's a season 3). It would be easier to count the number of announcements that haven't leaked as that would be a very small number. 2B and Haohmaru are among the few they were actually able to keep secret.