Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Dissidia said:
I got into SC2 because I recognized Heihachi and Yoshimitsu... got into AC because of Ezio, bought Nier and Witcher 3 because of 2B and Geralt...

But I have no desire to ever touch SamSho...
Click to expand...

Perhaps it's because SamSho as a fighter doesn't interest you. I only say that because I like playing Geralt but I have zero interest in the Witcher games.
 
Rusted Blade said:
What are you talking about, not-even-Willis? First off, have you even played Nier? Because 2B's moveset is incredibly faithful, and I don't understand how you can fault Project Soul for doing what they always do with guests (and indeed, as arguably is the only option for a guest): they found a way to make her work with the mechanics of the host game while showing fidelity to her original design. She's well balanced towards the upper middle tier (the best you can hope for with a guest), while bringing a distinctive role to the roster, which niche is not-quite like any previous SC character, regular or guest. And who the hell gives two shits about her face--it's a fighting game, bro, not a beauty pageant.

Meanwhile, if there was an award for "guest character in a fighting game who is most completely redundant both tonally and in terms of basic mechanics with one of the main characters already in the game" Haohmaru would win hands down even if you opened the contest up to every console generation. I mean, don't get me wrong--I'm happy that there have ended up being a lot of people who have really gelled with how he plays and who am I to say "Really that, guy? Mitsu's hillybilly cousin, complete with moonshine? Ok..." So long as a non-trivial number of people enjoy him, that's good enough justification for me for him to be in the game. But to compare his worth in terms of the overall novelty that he brings to table, when compared against 2B and Geralt?

Click to expand...
I dont think you understood anything i said man. " Who even cares about her face" what ?.

Yes they tried to be faithfull when implementing 2B and i cant judge that cause i havent played the game all i can see when looking at the character is one of the most toxic moveset designs in sc history. It doesnt matter what tier she is in the entire kit is based around mashing your face no the controller instead of learing the game. Its a character who has fullscreen keepout moves ,mashable strings (that can be countered but are still extremely abusable),full screen knockdowns that lead into a rushdown scenario that leaves you guessing every time you get knocked down. And she doesnt even have to follow it through cause she can just bitch out of it. atleast you can counter it with Re but hey her Re options are also good and when activating SC that counterplay goes right out the window.

Geralt has a similar problem cause popular or not his player base is basically 0 cause his moveset is as uninteresting and bland as possible.

Out of the 3 Hao is the only one who actually forces you to know what you are doing cause he doesnt have abuseable shit. Of course he doesnt have that high of a player base he comes from a small title and requires you to play well.

So most players be like "He doesnt have an ass to look at and I need to actually learn the game ? :( no thanks
 
Pyrrus said:
So yall what would you wanna see implemented in S3? besides creation/characters?

Id really like it if they finally gave us frame data
Click to expand...

I want a much more randomized arcade mode. It gets a bit boring and repetitive to always see certain characters on certain stages. For example, if playing normal mode, Groh is always on stage 4 and the most recent non-guest DLC character is always on stage 8. I don't think it would kill them to include 2B and Haohmaru is the arcade either.
 
Foot said:
I dont think you understood anything i said man. " Who even cares about her face" what ?.
Click to expand...
I took your unga bunga faceroll comment to be a knock on her for having a kinda....different face (which of course is not down to PS) anyway. Maybe I misunderstood: I don't always get memes, because I'm just not in a culture where I get pleted with them to the extent some do.

Foot said:
It doesnt matter what tier she is in the entire kit is based around mashing your face no the controller instead of learing the game.
Click to expand...
Patently false: do this as a 2B player at anyhting but the lowest levels of play and you will get your ass hadnded to you immediately. Get your ass handed to you by a 2B by a button masher and you're the one who belongs in the lowest level of play. It's really that simple. Yes, 2B has a few tools that probably frustrate absolute begininers, but attempting to leverage those consistently against a real player is a quick to the rematch screen. To wit...

Foot said:
mashable strings (that can be countered but are still extremely abusable)
Click to expand...
I'm not sure what you mean by mashable other than that she has an AAA that looks flashy, but her strings are, in general, no more powerful than anyone elses. Most of the ones that frustrate when they land do so because they just take a moment to play out and I think it puts players on tilt that they have to wait even a second longer for their windows to react. But mechanically these strings are doing no more damage than the average character's (and significantly less than those of about a half dozen, and that's before you consider the implications of scaling when her damage is divided across more hits), nor conferring any other unfair advantage, In fact, about the only thing they do is mix up the standard timing--which honestly, is just a good thing for keeping people on their toes, and again not something anything but low-rank players are going to have trouble adapting to. Meanwhile, her basic string are about as heavy choregographed as any in the game, have initial windows generous to the opponent, and she most have the most steppable non-RE verticals in the game.

These supposedly 'abusable' moves are actually more liability than anything: they are a temptation to rely on, but if you're playing any player who's had a copy of this (or any Soulcalibur) game for more than a few months and has a full set of chromosomes, they are just begging for punishment. They only becomes useful if they are worked into a larger strategy of complex mix-ups, which is 2B's role: keep the opponent guessing, set up the right false patterns to draw them in,without going so far out on that limb that you get punished for it. And even then her damage is, again, mid-range.

Foot said:
atleast you can counter it with Re but hey her Re options are also good and when activating SC that counterplay goes right out the window.
Click to expand...
I don't see how her RE response options are any more or less problematic than anyone's.

Foot said:
Its a character who has fullscreen keepout moves...full screen knockdowns that lead into a rushdown scenario that leaves you guessing every time you get knocked down. And she doesnt even have to follow it through cause she can just bitch out of it.
Click to expand...
The rest of this is all true (well, except for the fact that 'fullscreen' is an exaggeration, at least as regards anything that lands regularly). But that's her niche. She's a psuedo rush-down characters with an exceptional mix-up game that keeps the opponent guessing, but which really does demand even more out of the player executing her than the one defending at mid to higher levels of play in order to be continuously innovative with those mix-ups in the way you have to be in order to make her viable. Yeah, she has decent zoning, but a lot of that shit his highly contextual and only buys her time rather than being offensively viable.

At the end of the day 2B is fun for variety but not competitive (which is really the only real reasonable knock against her) and far from having abusive potential. Nobody puts her particularly high in their tier list and she's never been used to win a major tournament--not one. She really even appears at them and its rarer still you see her in a top bracket. Okubo lost his ever loving mind when Kayane agreed to play her for a tourney, apparently as a joke-favour, and even she couldn't make a winning scenario out of it.

In short, If you win a fight against a skilled opponent with 2B, you earned it. she's fun for some unique little mechanics and for adding some variety to the over-all fabric of the game (which a guest should do), but apparently the devs decided that her uniqueness would be perceived as "unfairness" by some and decided to weaken her to placate and avoid any significant backlash. And then when that wasn't enough, they nerfed her further in virtually every balance patch since. Meanwhile you've got characters like Azwel (who also brings in a lot of new tools, some of them very similar to 2Bs but also isn't a female guest) and Ivy (with insane zoning and damage output) starting strong and benefiting from consistent buffs, and far fewer people bitching about them, even though everyone agrees they are near the top of the tiers. Yeah, there's toxicity surrounding 2B alright, but is has nothing to do with her moveset being unreasonable or overpowered.

Foot said:
Geralt has a similar problem cause popular or not his player base is basically 0 cause his moveset is as uninteresting and bland as possible.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you probably have a better argument on this one. I can't speak deeply as to his mechanics because I virtually never play him, and only occasionally run up against him when ranking up side characters (which I guess says something in itself). I think some of his abilities are serviceable, but the overall balance is just off somehow. But again, that's not unheard of for guests. I think especially his being the first guest out, the devs decided to be careful not to be accused of making their star guest from an extremely popular franchise too OP and then face accusations that they did it to pull in casuals from an RPG franchise. But if so, they went a little heavy-handed with that approach and then never swung around to beef him up.

Foot said:
Out of the 3 Hao is the only one who actually forces you to know what you are doing cause he doesnt have abuseable shit. Of course he doesnt have that high of a player base he comes from a small title and requires you to play well.

So most players be like "He doesnt have an ass to look at and I need to actually learn the game ? :( no thanks
Click to expand...
I actually think Hao has a surprisingly large player base, considering he is a late-arriving guest from a franchise that is not super well-known. At least late-arriving legacy characters have a certain portion of the veteran players eagerly waiting for them as a general rule. All factors considered (including the fact that we already have a character who looks exactly like this guy and has a very similar play niche), I'm pretty susprised by how warmly he's received and how often I see him.

But notably, for all of your hand-waving about him being "a character you really have to learn" versus (supposedly) "abusable" Geralt and 2B, you haven't said one concrete thing about his actual mechanics, or given a clear indication why his moveset is an acceptable one where theirs aren't. Aside from the typical "the guy I support is for pro, the guys I want to complain about are scrubs--and also, only popular because waifu with an ass!" vague nonsense. I actually think there are defensible reasons to like Haoh, even if he's not for me, but what you've said doesn't tell me anything about why you think he's "the only good guest". Go on, admit it--you just love those eyebrows. ;)
 
Foot said:
yea i wont read all that
Click to expand...
Whereas you didn't say anything of substance to begin with. I guess we're at opposite ends of the spectrum.

WuHT said:
Haoh came out in 2020. How do you expect him to discuss the comparison prior to his release date ?
Click to expand...
Clearly I was referring to the "2B is overpowered and allows scrubs to compete against real players by spamming strings" aspect of the topic, which was the subject matter of basically the entirety of my post. And remains an absurd canard that anybody with more than the most basic skills should be able to see the nonsense of.

Edit: Also, I put the spoiler tag in there to begin with as a courtesy because some people (yourself included) view it as a chore to have to scroll through longer posts. I had to come up with something which summarized that tedious debate--which is not one I chose to have but was rather responding to for the sake of keeping things real here--and that's what occurred to me as the appropriate way to summarize this nonsense idea that people throw out there without real detail or support, and which has to then be countered with real detail, so.....
 
Last edited:
Rusted Blade said:
Clearly I was referring to the "2B is overpowered and allows scrubs to compete against real players by spamming strings" aspect of the topic,
Click to expand...
I see the original posts that you were replying to was specifically comparing Haoh to the other guest characters. Haoh has the benefit of seeing what worked in S1 and seeing how far the developers could push a moveset with unique mechanics, as well as being from an existing fighting game franchise

And yes good work on the the spoiler tags.
 
DanteSC3 said:
To be clear, I'm not saying we should be rushing out of SoulCalibur VI just to get to SoulCalibur VII earlier, and I do feel like 2024 is probably a good target to expect SoulCalibur VII's release, I'm just saying that, if we didn't get a season three, for whatever reason, it could possibly mean we'd be getting the next game earlier, because if the Project Soul people are being taken to work on other projects, then that means those other things are going to get made, which will then free up Project Soul folks earlier, which would then lead to SoulCalibur VII coming out earlier as well.

If we do get a season three, though, just being open and honest here, I really don't see Aeon, Guest (unless that guest is HUGE), Yun-seong, and either Rock or a new character, drawing in as many sales as Tira, 2B, Amy, and Cassandra or Hilde, Haohmaru, Setsuka, and Hwang. So that being true, it puts a possible damper on the likelihood of a season three being a certainty. SoulCalibur just unfortunately does not have the massive rosters that other fighting games have to pull DLC characters from, and they seem less inclined to make new characters as DLC, at least so far as they've shown.

But then, let's assume we do get a season three, would we then get a season four? I really don't think so. The effective pool of characters remaining at that point would be Li Long, Algol, and Dampierre, assuming we still have to have a guest, which is presumed true until they release a season pass that doesn't have a guest in it. And... yeah, Li Long, Algol, Dampierre are not really names that move sales. They have their fans, to be certain, but I can't imagine very much true hype being generated around that group of characters, unless there was another new character put in to replace one of those three.

And being completely generous that we do somehow get a season four, then a season five just becomes practically impossible, because there's just no one left, literally no characters left that aren't one-offs, the kids, or Z.W.E.I., and while we might could get Z.W.E.I., I have my personal doubts for the same reason that I don't believe we can see Viola in SoulCalibur VI, that their time is indeed for the future, in SoulCalibur VII, and not before. Amy is already confirmed to not turn into Viola as of 1590, so it would just be strange to have her ahead of schedule. And I don't see Z.W.E.I. working before then either.
Click to expand...

Only responding to a simple part in this and maybe I misunderstood the phrasing as I agree we won't likely see her in SCVI, but while she hasn't changed into her yet, Amy's story guarantees she will down the line, no 2 ways about that. Not to mention the official recolor hinting to that further.

Rusted Blade said:
I've believed from the beginning that Yun-seong is likely to be 'Star', and still do, but (aside from the fact that I think there are some pragmatic elements arguing for Algol or Viola as potentially more marketable characters), there are some real devil's advocate arguments to be made in terms of how Viola in particular might actually be the character with the most intersections with the concept of stars:

  • To begin with, we're told that Viola's age is "24 tri-colour stars", whatever the actual f*** that is supposed to mean. But nonsensical and dumb as the statement is without further context (as indeed, the bio information often is in these games), it clearly involves some mythological and astrological references.
    • For starters, there's fact that the 'tri-colour star' wording, combined with Viola's name, is clearly a reference to a plant known as the "Tricolour Viola" (also known as 'heartease' and, interestingly, 'three faces in a hood') a wildflower common throughout parts of Europe and connected for millennia to folk remedies, supposed love potions, and ancient mythology. In the classical Greek tradition, the plant was created by Zeus for his lover Io, after he had to change her into a cow to protect her from his vengeful wife, Hera. Io's story is one of the myths that contributed to the social construction of the constellation Taurus.
    • In some forms of eastern zodiac systems, meanwhile, the twelve star signs are aligned with the 24 cardinal directions, so that number is probably not incidental either.
  • Viola is said to have been born on the feastday of Vesta (its unclear how this is a known fact, given her amnesia, so maybe this is just the day she awakens without memory). In any event, Vesta is also the name of the second largest asteroid in the solar system (it's actually about 10% of all of the mass of the asteroid belt), which is one of the few objects that is not a planet that is large enough to appear like a star in the night sky.
  • Viola is also said to have "learned to read the stars" from a group of "travelers" that she fell in with for a while.
    • We can speculate the travelers may have been Romani, given her mode of dress and the fact that the Romani have often been historically referred to as "travelers" or "the traveling people": it would also make sense that they could have given her the name of Viola, since the viola tricolour wildflower is associated with Romani culture and they may have given her the name in reference to the three stars that can be seen inside her orb. It's probably more likely that all of this is just a smattering of mythological references smashed together somewhat at random by the some writer with an interest in arcane astrological reference, but this narrative would fit together so well that I'm mentioning this pet theory all the same.
    • It might also explain why Viola's "birthday" is the feastday of Vesta, a pagan goddess whose cult faded nearly a millennia and a half previous to the timeframe of the SCV (at least in the real world) but some of whose traditions lived on in folk custom. So the birthday and the name might both be gifts from this temporary family.
  • Viola's weapon and fighting style reference a general concept of astrological/astronomical terms in their names, including 'quattor orbis', 'Ars Planetarium', ect. There's also more than a dozen references to phases of the moon in her costume design, weapon, and voice lines.
  • Several of Viola's voice lines make direct references to stars.
  • Several of her moves are also named after stars or stellar phenomena.
So taking all of this together, it seems clear Viola's design, narrative, and meta-characterstics actually have more references to stars, the zodiac, astrology and myths associated with constellations than any other character. Now, given how surface-level STONE and REPTILE are in their apparent references to Rock and Lizardman/Aeon respectectively, I still think Yun-seong is the more likely candidate for STAR. But I think the above provides some real food for thought, and I felt like much of it has gone unnoticed, so I thought I might provide this devil's advocate insight.
Click to expand...

That's quite a bit of information, and I actually wasn't aware of some of that, but that was a very interesting read since I'm a fan of that sorta thing. The more detailed and extensive the range of a character's references and all may be, the more interesting I tend to find them. I appreciate you going into depth on that, thanks. All the same, either of them could happen, but for now Yun-seong definitely stands the stronger chance, albeit strictly due to timeline and his having been referenced but without a single portrayal in-game as of yet. That said, there's a bit of another devil's advocate argument that could be made, but I'll go into that in part of the response to the next quote.

Kostas_Greece said:
My Season 3 prediction:

Rock: He is a classic SoulBlade/SoulCalibur character with many fans and he is the true Barbarian warrior, he has nothing to do with Astaroth! I think that if he will be included in Season 3 his modified moves will be awesome!

Algol: His story is too interesting I think that it all started from him! We have to see in his story how SoulEdge came in his son's hands and how Algol create the "spirit sword" SoulCalibur and sacrifised his life to save his son. And also his fighting style is so unique he uses the two soul swords, canons with bubbles (LOL!) some kind of wave swords and even his throne! I think that with SCVI mechanics he will also be a cool character to use!

Brand New Female Character: SoulCalibur VI is the only SC game that didn't introduce us a new female character, so I think that there is a hope for this! I want a new female character in the game, maybe an archer or a character with a really unique weapon and style!

Dampierre: To be honest I never liked him, but many fans asked for him! I have to admit it that she has a really unique and prototype style, these hidden daggers in his sleeves are really cool, I think that he has a chance to return and find out more of his story!


P.S I think that the SCV newcomer characters like Z.W.E.I and Viola won't return and I feel strange and sad because they are so unique! But, who knows? They are too high requested characters from the fans! They still have a chance.

Yun-Seong? I really want him, but this time Hwang will be revived to take all of this glory that Yun-Seong "stole" from him! We will see him as a cameo and I think that some of his armor parts, his hairstyle and his weapon "White Storm" will be customisable in Creation Mode when Hwang will be released!

Li-Long? The most underrated and forgotten character in SoulCalibur history! I think that the developers of Project Soul should revive him to differ from Maxi! They should give him a new style! Maybe with a three-section staff as his weapon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-section_staff

NO MORE GUESTS: I think that with Geralt, 2B and HaohMaru we are complete and we don't need another one guest character for SoulCalibur VI! This time Project Soul and Namco did the right choises to include these characters as guests in the game, their styles are awesome and they fit very much in SoulCalibur universe!
Click to expand...

Well, do pardon if this turns into a long read. Or not, either way. If we don't include Edge Master, Charade, Olcadan, or Elysium due to being mimics, and we assume for Hwang among returning characters to pull from to be in this season, then we have: Yun-seong, Rock, Li Long, Aeon, Algol, and Dampierre for characters who were relevant up to and including SCIV. If we continue with characters with unique styles/weapons that have played any importance without being mimics or irrelevant[the 3 shopkeepers], then we have Z.W.E.I. and Viola who each could have their own devil's advocate arguments on how it "could" happen in theory, even if not likely and some may not seem plausible. I have one of my own, even though it's unlikely in its own right, borrowing from what's happened with other fighters partly.

That said, that makes 6 potential returning characters left. Maybe a bit odd to make it a partial basis, but we can't entirely rule out the possibility, low chance or not, that it does seem like SCVI's DLC model has copied T7's over time, so it's entirely possible an S3 if it happens, could have 6 characters in the pass like Tekken did, meaning we'd finish off all returning characters up to point in the timeline over the course of a season, at which point would be a blessing for fans of any given character that fits the timeline, and a nice size for a season of content character-wise at least. I won't speak on the CaS content since mostly it's disappointing, though I have liked using some of it when customizing the characters themselves.

That may be unlikely in its own right, but not impossible, and I do have to bring up the point again that Algol had his sleep disturbed in Libra as it is, so him waking up and being directly active early isn't unreasonable. After all, we have enough instances of events from 3 and 4 happening slightly early as is, not to mention Cassandra's direct contact with her SCIV self. Need I mention the Zasalamel sidequest in Libra which is canon as a mode where he is written to take the form of Abyss which doesn't happen until 3 normally and he's in control this time? I wish he actually had that form in game somehow, just to see if it would look as cool as I'd expect in current graphics.

I'm not getting my hopes up on any of it, but interesting to consider alongside the fact we got Hilde who was an SCIV character and while she was active prior, we did originally have the statement that we wouldn't have characters from 4 at all. That changed, and we have the full SCIII trio now, so we may as well fill in as much as we can of those who were around in that part of the timeline. Or maybe that's just my way of thinking since I actually liked Algol as a character and style, both to use and to fight against, but that opinion doesn't say too much when I play every character to varying extents.

An interesting thing I want to bring up highlighting the new female character idea in lieu of SCVI not having one yet oddly, is I actually could see that happening in the 3rd season. All the same, I could see the 6 above characters being split across 2 seasons depending how S3 is handled. I'm probably a bit overly optimistic with this game, perhaps in part because I want to see it succeed, but I feel like things would be better for them to continue adding content to this game and supporting it via updates for a good while to come, instead of rushing into a new game. Think of it like this, taking the 2024 optimism from Rusted Blade as a reasonable guess: Would you want an empty span of time without balance adjustments and content leading into it after content ends like we had with SCV, which would probably be viewed far better had support continued and been handled well enough, until SCVI launch or would you prefer to hope for us to have the content and support to improve the game, and simultaneously keep us distracted in the wait for a later installment which they at some point would likely be working on at the same time?

Sorry for the sidetracking from my own point there, but a new female character would be welcome and much needed since not having one seems a tad weird. But looking at Setsuka's story, we do have that new apparently evil female character talking who at least for me, doesn't come across as any voice I recognize from SE to SCVI, CaS or otherwise. We didn't see anything but an outline, but we heard the voice and what I assume is her voice alongside a new male voice were implemented in CaS. Part of me takes that as a possibility we could see 2 new characters in the next season, which would mirror the T7 model further, and I doubt anyone would be particularly against that idea. Considering she interacted with what I can only assume is a shard of Soul Edge safely and is pulling the strings on who knows what sort of plan, I'm actually extremely curious to see what kind of character she'd be and what new concept they may apply that way. Plus, it would fill the niche for an outright evil female character in the series, not counting Tira who suits the term "chaos" more than evil to me, or Elysium who isn't direct about it nor presented with an appearance unique to her.

A bit of wishful thinking perhaps, but none of that's entirely impossible. That aside, Wilhelm could very well get introduced with the Z.W.E.I. moveset or as Z.W.E.I. himself as a way for that moveset to come back in a later season, or we could see Z.W.E.I. just in an earlier appearance and age, since we have no clear indications as to how old he is, and appearance doesn't tell us much with this series or in reality either. Or for all we know his disappearance in SCV could be him dropped through Astral Chaos like Cassandra for all we know if they choose to explain that away for early arrival. Bad explanation or weak, but uh... Is that too unusual as is for anything here anymore story-wise?

Equally wishful thinking, but this working in part for the devil's advocate argument regarding Viola that Rusted Blade brought up, is it's not entirely impossible that the devs may take their time on another season and we see it extend the timeline further into the future as an expansion of sorts to the story, probably Libra, and in turn seeing new stages and such. Other fighters have done it, MK11 most recently with Aftermath, and we do have stories with all our returning characters so far. And that odd side story for Groh for some reason that comes across like we'll be seeing more of that going forward. If they do that, and we assume we're at the mid-to-late section of 3's timeline event-wise even if it's slightly early right now, then there isn't a huge amount of progression in 4 or 5, so this could lead into 4's events and extent into the time between 4 and 5 which I doubt was empty of events for 17 years. Could full well alter things and implement a new character or 2 for that, bring back Z.W.E.I. and Viola, or whatever else. Mind you, that isn't anything in the realm of my expectations, just something I hope for and would love to see, even if it's not likely. SCVII will likely happen first, but the story getting progressed slightly further and/or new characters fit into the current span still stands plausible.

While that idea is unlikely and the possibilities are uncertain, in putting that idea out there, I'd think that would probably be fairly well-received whether it's a 6-character pass with 2 newcomers, or the story expansion idea. Bad marketing so far aside, either option would be sizable in content enough to be worth the price and waiting in my opinion(says the guy willing to buy all content they release for this game/series).
 
Guys who was the mystery woman in the end of Setsuka's Story? Right after i finished it i did Tira's Story just to compare voices and it didn't seemed her.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back