Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

sytus

[14] Master
While it has been an age since I've played SC6, in my experience you only come across CaS characters in low ranks. I don't get the argument that they're a problem when the people who use them do so because they're playing the game for fun, not for mastering the game. The competitive crowd is in S, A and B ranks who all have the same mindset about sticking with official characters only.
 

Crash X

[14] Master
While it has been an age since I've played SC6, in my experience you only come across CaS characters in low ranks. I don't get the argument that they're a problem when the people who use them do so because they're playing the game for fun, not for mastering the game. The competitive crowd is in S, A and B ranks who all have the same mindset about sticking with official characters only.
Yet there are quite a chunk of those in the higher ranks that DO use the hell out of CaS (though it’s arguably the least common on PC) be it online competitive or not in Ranked. And when you’ve fought enough of those you really start to see the issue.
 

Crash X

[14] Master
In my experience it's near non existent which is why I don't see it. From C rank and below it's a different story.
Well perhaps you just need to get into the field and start encountering them more, regardless of a players rank (which isn’t an accurate reflection of a player’s skill level or their status as casual or competitive l90% of the time). That way you’ll see why it becomes a killjoy over time and exactly why many players criticize and frown upon its existence in Ranked. And because of the “wonderful”matchmaking you may not have that much trouble finding CaS in large quantities.
 

Jrasta111

[11] Champion
If someone had told me after more than 12 years there would still be people here arguing about these same things well... I'd have shrugged and said 'probably'.

I mean the other way to look at it is it adds variety to something in danger of becoming very stale very quickly. One of the things I didn't like about SCV was how much more often the 'high level' play got reduced to the same old moves and little combos from the same 'high tier' characters. Like it was trying to be Marvel or Streetfighter or you know, something it's not, minor peeve really in the grand scheme.

After all it's just 'ranked' online here. To me there comes a point where it all becomes too predictable ending up a bit well boring. What can I say? Never played 'ranked' anyway to be honest. It's just a game and if you're not finding it fun perhaps find something more fun. I don't think when they first released SC on the DC or even SC3 on PS2 they particularly expected people to one day take it all so seriously.

Again it's just online 'ranked'. I do have a fundamental inability to take any of it particular seriously at this point but who knows? You might even enjoy it more if you do. But that's just me.

If you have an actual tournament you can just disqualify CAS. Doesn't seem like a big deal anyway. You say CAS isn't 'authentic' but the developers made the game that way and I can't help but think asking them to put in the option to disable them is like the fuss people make about putting an 'easy mode' in Dark Souls.

Is it possible? Surely it is. But what if that's simply not the way the developers wanted to make the game? I can't stand those games incidentally but again that's just me.
 

4cam10

[10] Knight
If you don't play ranked and don't care for it, then why did you type multiple paragraphs about how you believe it should be played?
I don't think when they first released SC on the DC or even SC3 on PS2 they particularly expected people to one day take it all so seriously.

Is it possible? Surely it is. But what if that's simply not the way the developers wanted to make the game? I can't stand those games incidentally but again that's just me.
Considering Namco/Project Soul have in the past had contact with members of the competitive scene, had some association with the scene and in some cases even hired members of the community as far back as SC2, the idea that they developers had never intended the game to be competitive or played in a competitive manor is an interesting take to say the least.
 

Jrasta111

[11] Champion
It's almost like people deliberately misunderstand each other. Why would anyone try to be as clear as possible? Tis a mystery.

I mean I could just not bother but it's nice to discuss things is it not? Unless by 'discuss' you mean fling shit at each other for reasons beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. Then I'll pass.

For the record what you said is not what I said. I have no idea how you took 'so seriously' and 'online' to mean 'competitively' or in a 'competitive manor[sic]'.

All I meant was it's a game about magic swords, greek deities, a dominatrix and ninjas. Obviously it's always had it's niche community but it's almost as if whoever thought marketing to the people who liked the game already to the point of obsession and took it seriously enough to get together in person to play tournaments already probably should've stayed in marketing school. Or studied something different.

Either or. Crazy I know.

In fact, just to minimise misunderstanding as much as possible, I'm going to be very clear.

If they're still listening to your little coven of obsessive jackoffs we're long past the point where their loved ones needed to sit them down and stage an intervention. We're no longer and have not been in for some time the old era where people actually sat down together to play and new players were introduced like this and by word of mouth.

Now everything is online. You know. The players you'll happily spend all day slagging off and driving out then acting bewildered when there are no more new players.

It's been fairly obvious for at least say the past decade. If you've missed it the only sensible explanation is you simply choose not to see it. As will happen once again right now no doubt.
 
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4cam10

[10] Knight
It's almost like people deliberately misunderstand each other. Why would anyone try to be as clear as possible? Tis a mystery.

I mean I could just not bother but it's nice to discuss things is it not? Unless by 'discuss' you mean fling shit at each other for reasons beyond the comprehension of mere mortals. Then I'll pass.

For the record what you said is not what I said. I have no idea how you took 'so seriously' and 'online' to mean 'competitively' or in a 'competitive manor[sic]'.
Oh no you were just bagging any sort of competitive or serious play, decrying anyone that wanted to have CaS removed from Ranked for perfectly legitimate reasons (Even though you don't play the game mode and apparently don't even care for it); I can't imagine why I would've thought you had an issue with competitive play or even competitive players.

You even continue to bag on competitive and it's players further down on this same post:
Obviously it's always had it's niche community but it's almost as if whoever thought marketing to the people who liked the game already to the point of obsession and took it seriously enough to get together in person to play tournaments already probably should've stayed in marketing school. Or studied something different.

If they're still listening to your little coven of obsessive jackoffs we're long past the point where their loved ones needed to sit them down and stage an intervention. We're no longer and have not been in for some time the old era where people actually sat down together to play and new players were introduced like this and by word of mouth.
Yep, you've heard it here folks; If you play Soul Calibur competitively and in the rare case you get hired for it, you've got serious issues and need family intervention.
With amazing takes like that I can imagine you've been made fun of a fair bit by this community. If you get made fun of saying stuff like this, it's not a casual vs competitive problem it's a you problem.
 

SSfox

[14] Master
Outside of competitive aspects mentioned (and that i agree with), there are also simply people that want a proper SC fighting game, and not some Sims fighting game. Kinda bug me that some people have hard time to get that, but anyways.

On another totally different topic, just remembered this Ivy shot, i really liked it, but this somehow never ended up in the game, suspect it was suppose to be one of her winpose i guess, Or maybe the early alpha CE kill pose.

FmLR29DXgAAY5at
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
My take is that the impact of having CaS in ranked in SCVI is very much a tempest in a teapot and at a minimum highly exaggerated by a lot mid-tier players way beyond any proportion with the actual impacts. What does one call a moral panic without a moral component? A silly panic? Mind you, I don't in principle oppose restricting ranked to main roster characters--if nothing else, it would simplify any balancing work for the devs; or more precisely, it would, in theory do so, if any such support were continuing for the game.

But the truth is, I've seen very little actual testing and legitimate documentation by players complaining about the impacts of CaS for how it actually impacts hitboxes or combos. There's definitely some degree of influence, but clearly there's a lot of bias influencing how radical these impacts are perceived to be (i.e. experienced but not stellar players losing games to perceived mooks will often look for a reason, aside from relative skill or dumb luck, and if any one excuse becomes a very handy excuse for a large percentage of matches, it's amenable to a strong ego-comforting confirmation bias that there's a major problem with the feature). And, meaning no offense to anyone here in particular, but the more times I hear someone histrionically rail against this feature out of nowhere, the more likely I am to perceive that they may fall into this group.

I mean, I find it very telling that I never once (during the admittedly narrow span of time that SCVI was in the professional FGC consciousness) heard a pro-scene player complain about this feature, and the complaints seem to flow uniformly from the level of the veteran player who is very competent with the deeper mechanics of the series but whose capabilities still top out well shy of that of the noteworthy tournament level (i.e. the larger portion of those of us here at 8WR).

There's also the fact that when people do complain about CaS in ranked, it tends to be very vague, with arguments of the caliber (pun intended) of something along the lines of "Frickin' CAS jank for newbs, get this crap out of here, Bamco!"* I generally don't know if these players think that the influence of ExEq ruins the experience, or the impact of height upon hitboxes, however minor or major it is in reality. If the former, I think we can generally dismiss those complaints: very rare are the cases where someone just throws a large object over a creation to obscure movement.

And as to the latter, well, let's assume for the sake of argument that the impacts of CaS height on overall moves and combos are significant enough to take notice of. In that case, you can just as easily perceive this as a feature, rather than a flaw: creating disparate outcomes for different heights does require yet one more thing a player has to remember and account for in an already technically complex framework for play, but so long as it is taken account of during balancing, it is not per se a problem: it might just as easily be taken as another variable you as the player can take into account and react to (or even exploit).

On the other side of the ledger (and this is one thing Jrasta is correct about), the CaS availability undoubtedly brings in large number of players (both generally and with regard to ranked as well). And considering how much this franchise is still struggling to remain relevant, despite some minor bolstering by SCVI, and how quickly active users diminished across all platforms even with every advantage available, I'd say there's a good argument to be made that any impacts upon gameplay in ranked (including any headaches for those who just won't ever like this feature) can be justified by the benefits to the game as a whole--as well as sales figures that might justify the next game coming just a bit sooner.

All that said, I understand the impulse towards preserving a purist version of the traditional mechanics, as a kind of fan-service of a technical variety, for lack of a better term. And honestly, at this point, I would happily see CaS in ranked go away just to finally see an end to the debate! ....though what would remain being discussed here at 8WR at that point might be even more silly. ;)




* On a side note, I now have an auto-cringe embarrassment for the speaker upon hearing the word "jank" built into my nervous system at this point, largely by virtue of being a part of this community, to be quite frank: whether CaS or another mechanic people are prone to complain about, that word seems to inevitably be involved when a committed whinger is about to complain with a minimum of evidence to support their comparably large gripes.
 

4cam10

[10] Knight
But the truth is, I've seen very little actual testing and legitimate documentation by players complaining about the impacts of CaS for how it actually impacts hitboxes or combos.
Oh definitely it's not like people have been posting evidence of CaS discrepancies since launch not at all. /s

The reason why you don't see too many people post evidence of CaS issues anymore is because it doesn't matter how much time put into it, how well researched it is, how clear and concise it is, many people will dismiss it anyway solely because it's not what they want to hear or they will try to argue that it's not a big deal (it is a big deal) and it's not a skill level dependant thing CaS can have a serious effect on matches, in many cases effectively punishing players with good matchup knowledge.

For example, this video posted to the Soul Calibur reddit over a year ago:
Despite showcasing clearly the difference between CaS Amy and Regular Amy with one of Hilde's interactions there are still plenty of people in that thread that state this isn't a big deal or try to argue these problems don't exist with other CaS, it's kind of a waste of time trying to convince people the sky is blue when they should be able to see that with their own eyes.
I mean, I find it very telling that I never once (during the admittedly narrow span of time that SCVI was in the professional FGC consciousness) heard a pro-scene player complain about this feature, and the complaints seem to flow uniformly from the level of the veteran player who is very competent with the deeper mechanics of the series but whose capabilities still top out well shy of that of the noteworthy tournament level (i.e. the larger portion of those of us here at 8WR).
If you think that's true then you don't interact with the competitive scene enough, there are plenty of competitive players that complain about this feature and even go as far as to want it removed because of the issues it causes. Having a high-level of skill or game knowledge doesn't just magically make you immune to the issues CaS causes.
 

Jrasta111

[11] Champion
So, looks like we're indeed going to double down on ignoring the only actual point I cared to make, which for the record was that having the custom characters be part of the game and not a side show segmented circus was indeed the developers full intention when they made the game and they are not a bug but a feature that many people now expect to indeed be part of the game?

To add a little more to that I think the CaS mechanic has been a valued and treasured feature since it was introduced by the development staff in a game which was looking to broaden it's appeal and did not have any guest characters besides which are indeed far more limited in the scope of appeal than a character anyone can customise for themselves alone.

The main weakness of these characters has always been the mimicked fighting styles which indeed has always felt cheap which undoubtedly the developers had also foreseen from the start noting that SC3 had far more options involving customising a fighting style which were since removed becoming barely remembered, now replaced in the memories of many regarding CaS now including online, by huge phallus'. Good times.

Of course this was no doubt removed for the same reason people are still arguing here. So called 'competitive' players complaining about having unpredictable mechanics 'ruin' their very important ranked matches they definitely don't take too seriously like little bitches instead of say doing what it might indeed occur to an actual competitive player to do. Improve. Ah well. Enjoy sucking on the phallus.

I said I didn't care before and I still don't honestly but as a fan of the series up until at this point I definitely do hope they add no such removal 'easy button' options.

bitches
 

4cam10

[10] Knight
I didn't ignore anything from you, I probably should've ignored you and your crazy statements but I didn't, you seem to say a lot but say very little.
So, looks like we're indeed going to double down on ignoring the only actual point I cared to make, which for the record was that having the custom characters be part of the game and not a side show segmented circus was indeed the developers full intention when they made the game and they are not a bug but a feature that many people now expect to indeed be part of the game?
You never said that at any point in your nonsensical posts. All you did was complain that regular characters make the game stale therefore any problems CaS causes are fine, mock/ridicule people that try to play the game seriously, state SC was never designed for competitive play(lol) and all this was argued for a game mode you apparently don't even play and apparently don't care about either.

I have no issue with CaS existing but it doesn't belong in ranked. I've mentioned before people have dropped the game over this but you seem to care very little about that.
Of course this was no doubt removed for the same reason people are still arguing here. So called 'competitive' players complaining about having unpredictable mechanics 'ruin' their very important ranked matches they definitely don't take too seriously like little bitches instead of say doing what it might indeed occur to an actual competitive player to do. Improve. Ah well. Enjoy sucking on the phallus.
And here you are once again rudely mocking competitive players again for daring to want to be able to play their favourite game competitively. I'm done talking to you, I don't know what competitive players have done to you but you need to get over it.
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
If you think that's true then you don't interact with the competitive scene enough, there are plenty of competitive players that complain about this feature and even go as far as to want it removed because of the issues it causes. Having a high-level of skill or game knowledge doesn't just magically make you immune to the issues CaS causes.
Really? So it shouldn't be very hard for you to find one single example of a major competitor complaining about it from all the media produced by the community at large, should it? And yet here you are insisting it is so without presenting such an example? Face it, this is a gripe almost exclusive to mid-tier players. That doesn't per se rule it out as a relevant complaint--the game has to work for more than the tournament scene, afterall. But it does reinforce the general perception I have here--that the supposed game-breaking nature of this feature is wildly exaggerated by a class of player more inclined to get histrionic over something they perceive to be to blame for their losses than would be the average higher tier player. If you're going to insist that's not so, then who is the highest profile esports player you can point to who shares this perspective of yours that you are so certain is not a hallmark of lower level play?

Also, do you not see the issue with your insistence that this feature "punishes players with good match-up knowledge"? Because this is, afterall, just another type of matchup variable. If there are discrepancies now in slightly different versions of a given moveset, based on height, then maybe it's just part of your job now as a player to adjust to this new reality and learn those new variables, rather than complaining and expecting the devs to keep out new features they fancy just to coddle your sense of what is fair to you and your previously accrued knowledge? So long as the variations get factored into roster balance (which in principle is entirely doable), there's not really a problem from a fairplay perspective: everyone's going to have the same opportunity to adapt to (and even exploit) the new dimension to matchup knowledge, with time.
 

4cam10

[10] Knight
Really? So it shouldn't be very hard for you to find one single example of a major competitor complaining about it from all the media produced by the community at large, should it? And yet here you are insisting it is so without presenting such an example? Face it, this is a gripe almost exclusive to mid-tier players. That doesn't per se rule it out as a relevant complaint--the game has to work for more than the tournament scene, afterall. But it does reinforce the general perception I have here--that the supposed game-breaking nature of this feature is wildly exaggerated by a class of player more inclined to get histrionic over something they perceive to be to blame for their losses than would be the average higher tier player. If you're going to insist that's not so, then who is the highest profile esports player you can point to who shares this perspective of yours that you are so certain is not a hallmark of lower level play?
I didn't want to strictly name drop anyone in my initial post but I think I know someone who wouldn't care, 8Wayfunz got a bit of heat from some people for this take: Considering the results they've had in tourneys I wouldn't consider them a low level player by any means, it's not an uncommon take either I shouldn't need evidence to show you how many pro players feel about CaS.
I would've liked to use someone from my region but somehow I feel you would say it wouldn't count because we're not a high tier region or some nonsense like that.
Also, do you not see the issue with your insistence that this feature "punishes players with good match-up knowledge"? Because this is, afterall, just another type of matchup variable. If there are discrepancies now in slightly different versions of a given moveset, based on height, then maybe it's just part of your job now as a player to adjust to this new reality and learn those new variables, rather than complaining and expecting the devs to keep out new features they fancy just to coddle your sense of what is fair to you and your previously accrued knowledge? So long as the variations get factored into roster balance (which in principle is entirely doable), there's not really a problem from a fairplay perspective: everyone's going to have the same opportunity to adapt to (and even exploit) the new dimension to matchup knowledge, with time.
CaS punishes game knowledge because of the inconsistencies they cause, if you spend hours labbing out a single character only for a move to whiff because it was CaS that is frustrating, you're forced to learn a new matchup on the fly and any knowledge you've gained on how to fight that character can prove to be useless or worse outright cause you to get punished. Expecting players to lab out 2-6 variants of the some moveset when the game hasn't been balanced around them is ridiculous, that's also ignoring the bugs that can occur with different moveset heights that can make a moveset broken or make them unplayable.

I don't know why you're trying to turn this into a Skill issue no matter what how good of a player you are you can't sidestep the issues CaS causes that's a fact. Also thank you for trying to insult my skill with this line of thought that would really convince me you're in the right.
 

Cricket

Playing since Pong.
CaS is a lot of fun, and I'm sure it has helped bring in new players and money. I've seen some excellent and unique character designs that thematically fit the game. Of course, I've also seen the infamous dick lizards, pistachios, and other crap. I totally understand why some folks would prefer to keep a more standardized SoulCalibur experience in ranked, from both a gameplay and aesthetic perspective.

The mechanical variances that come with the different hitboxes and skeletons make the CaS bodies seem like such a weird development decision to me. The devs had a wonderful set of tested and balanced character bodies and move sets right there in the base roster -- why mess with it?

If these new bodies are intended to be part of some new matchup knowledge (as some have suggested), then...
  • Why can't a player select size 1-5 in the base character select along with colors 1-4?
  • Why isn't the CaS body height displayed on the character select screen so the opponent knows what they're facing?
  • Why is the largest CaS body still smaller than base Astaroth?

It just seems like CaS was originally intended as single player content and then clumsily shoved into the multiplayer aspect of SoulCalibur. If there is a SoulCalibur 7, I hope it's handled better. That center tile on the character select screen comes with some real caveats.
 

Crash X

[14] Master
To say that the inconsistencies within CaS are “features and new matchup variables” is as close to a strawman as someone can get with this. Even worse is to go out of your way and basically just say “Oh just adapt and git gud, it’s fine.” will bury you even further especially if you’re continuing to live in an echo chamber of your own farts and not even bothering to listen to what the more competitive side of SC speaks up about it, even after repeated testing and explaining why it’s consistently banned in tournaments or sets, CaS exclusive movesets as well (see Devil Jin in SCV as a reference).
 

Rusted Blade

[14] Master
I didn't want to strictly name drop anyone in my initial post but I think I know someone who wouldn't care, 8Wayfunz got a bit of heat from some people for this take: Considering the results they've had in tourneys I wouldn't consider them a low level player by any means, it's not an uncommon take either I shouldn't need evidence to show you how many pro players feel about CaS.
I would've liked to use someone from my region but somehow I feel you would say it wouldn't count because we're not a high tier region or some nonsense like that.
. . .
I don't know why you're trying to turn this into a Skill issue no matter what how good of a player you are you can't sidestep the issues CaS causes that's a fact. Also thank you for trying to insult my skill with this line of thought that would really convince me you're in the right.
So in other words, no you can't find a pro player supporting your position, since you keep insisting you can but consistently fail to. This time you instead chose someone with a hot-take on Twitter that doesn't even align with your point in the slightest: he's bitching about CaS entirely
on aesthetic grounds and not at all supporting your whingy points about this feature supposedly breaking the mechanics of the game, even indirectly.

So I'll ask one more time: can you point to one actual known-name member of the community who has actually placed (or at least made a decent showing) in a major tournament, who actually has gone on the record anywhere, at any time, to any degree, to say that CaS is a major issue that a serious player would be frustrated with on ranked? No, they don't have to be from any particular region: anyone, anywhere, speaking at any time, provided 1) they are recognizably someone known to the SCVI tournament scene and 2) they are actually supporting your position on the issue in question. And don't try to hide behind some silly "Well, I wouldn't want to put someone else's name forward" kind of excuse. Seriously? What tournament player would give one loose stool if you shared their opinion here, especially if they had already publicly volunteered that opinion?

Spoiler: no you can't, or you would have done so by now. But I'm still about to get several paragraphs worth of awkward efforts to the avoid the point, a quote that isn't remotely relevant to the question at hand, and more and more attitude and needlessly emotional sense of offense because I won't treat your word as gospel that this a major issue, when it's very clearly a "your mileage will vary" matter of opinion and I (forgive me) think there's something to be taken from the fact that I hear about this more from lower-to-mid-level players and not at all from the highest levels of the competitive scene.

I choose to view that as relevant information. Not the end of the story, mind you, but it still very much says something about how much of an issue CaS really is. Because (all other factors being equal) less experienced players are more likely to find things to make excuses for their losses than more experienced players, and if they hone in on one particular thing over time, that can become an outright cognitive bias with a lot of emotion and ego invested in believing it's the case and insisting that it absolutely must be so. This isn't news and shouldn't be a surprise to you. We all see it with various features with the release of every game.

So when a complaint mostly comes from lower (or higher) levels of the skill ladder, it does (in my personal opinion) provide some indirect evidence for how likely that complaint is to reflect a legitimately noteworthy issue, versus something that is being exaggerated. I'm not going to go just on my opinion of how the game feels to me personally, because then I'm stuck in a trap of subjectivity--even if I think my opinion is very well-reasoned and based on the evidence. I'm going to look to the larger community for opinions as well, and I'm going to weight the opinions of the more experienced and skilled players the highest. Why is that confusing or controversial to you?

That's just my opinion and you're gonna have to just live with that, unless you can provide me with some degree of evidence that this is something that pros also feel so strongly about. And Just to be clear, I'm open to having my mind changed, honestly. But my observations since the launch of the game is that these complaints come unilaterally from lower down the player skill hierarchy, and you aren't presenting anything here so far that changes that impression. Not one quote from a highly positioned competitive player who has complained about this thing you insist is breaking the ranked experience. Just a lot of noise from 8WR randos. And hey, that's not an insult: I'm a 8WR rando! I've been playing these games since the first Soul Edge/Soul Blade cabinets hit the arcades, but I'd get trashed in the present day tournament scene, and I'm very aware of that: I couldn't even begin to compete.

Nowhere did I insult your personal skill level--why would I? I don't have any firsthand knowledge of your skill and it's irrelevant to the point. All I said was that your argument that CaS in ranked is an issue for players with good match-up knowledge doesn't logically track to me, because however you feel about it being added, it absolutely is a kind of match-up knowledge.

CaS punishes game knowledge because of the inconsistencies they cause, if you spend hours labbing out a single character only for a move to whiff because it was CaS that is frustrating, you're forced to learn a new matchup on the fly and any knowledge you've gained on how to fight that character can prove to be useless or worse outright cause you to get punished. Expecting players to lab out 2-6 variants of the some moveset when the game hasn't been balanced around them is ridiculous, that's also ignoring the bugs that can occur with different moveset heights that can make a moveset broken or make them unplayable.

Ok, so maybe we can get on the same page here. Because you're moving towards the points I was trying to emphasize for you before, which is that this feature isn't per se an issue: the question is whether 1) the devs are asking too much of their average player in adding another layer to the matchup knowledge in an already kind of demanding game, specially given they don't share the frame data. I agree: that is a big ask. 2) whether their balancing actually accounts for these variations. I agree: that's an open question.

I agree with these points, and why wouldn't I, since I was the one to bring them up in the first place? The point is though, that this doesn't automatically make CaS in ranked an issue. The issue is not so much of whether or not the devs erred in adding CaS to ranked so much as whether they did so without the proper resources to exercise the requisite level of quality control.
To say that the inconsistencies within CaS are “features and new matchup variables” is as close to a strawman as someone can get with this.
Crash, that's not what a strawman argument is. A strawman argument is when you misrepresent your rhetorical opponent's position in order to create an easier target to knock down. By definition, you cannot present a strawman argument when you are presenting your own position. But, moving on to the substance of your post:

Even worse is to go out of your way and basically just say “Oh just adapt and git gud, it’s fine."
I'd say that's an exaggeration of my position, at best. I've gone out of my way to point out that this comes down to implementation and balance. I have no problem (in theory) with people saying "Look, PS barely has the resources to balance the base roster reliably--I feel like they will never get this right." But that's not the kind of nuanced complaint I hear whenever this topic comes up.

I don't even have a firm opinion that CaS shouldn't be removed from ranked, I just have an allergy to weak arguments, and some people here get so worked up about this topic, to a level where I feel it needs to be supported by better evidence of the issue than I have seen. If you go back and look at my initial post on this topic this go-around, you'll find my position is pretty middle of the road from the outset (I'm gonna guess it might have been the same when y'all started arguing with jrasta as well). I don't think the opinion that CaS should be removed from ranked is an unreasonable one necessarily: it's the emotional strength of the opinion, relative to to the evidence, that strikes me as odd. And that emotion-over-evidence ratio dovetails into and combines with the segment of the fanbase that I hear it coming from to make me feel like the issue is just highly exaggerated at the least.

if you’re continuing to live in an echo chamber of your own farts
Yeah, that's not how the term "echo chamber" works either. And echo chamber is when people surround themselves only with those who share their opinion and reinforce one-another's selection biases. If I have an echo chamber, it's you guys: aside from the very rare occasion when I see a very old friend and we bust out the dreamcast or the PS2, the only time I ever talk about Soulcalibur these days is here. And clearly the community here does not have any one single opinion on any issue under the sun, let alone this one!

and not even bothering to listen to what the more competitive side of SC speaks up about it
On the contrary, this is precisely what I am getting at: what do competitive players think about this issue? I suppose you might argue that the average 8WRer is a part of the competitive scene, at least compared to average blue ocean casual. But, no offense, I've heard every opinion from every regular here on this subject 45,000 times, give or take. And, combined with my own experiences on ranked, it has left me with the feeling that CaS probably doesn't need to be in ranked, but that relative to the benefits of the players it pulls in, the issues are small and highly exaggerated by the emotions of mid-tier players, like you and I. If I heard just one pro player rant about it with 1/100th the howling-at-the-moon ferocity I see from some people here, it might shift my opinion slightly. But, after more than four years, I'm still waiting.
 
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Rusted Blade

[14] Master
CaS is a lot of fun, and I'm sure it has helped bring in new players and money. I've seen some excellent and unique character designs that thematically fit the game. Of course, I've also seen the infamous dick lizards, pistachios, and other crap. I totally understand why some folks would prefer to keep a more standardized SoulCalibur experience in ranked, from both a gameplay and aesthetic perspective.

The mechanical variances that come with the different hitboxes and skeletons make the CaS bodies seem like such a weird development decision to me. The devs had a wonderful set of tested and balanced character bodies and move sets right there in the base roster -- why mess with it?

If these new bodies are intended to be part of some new matchup knowledge (as some have suggested), then...
  • Why can't a player select size 1-5 in the base character select along with colors 1-4?
  • Why isn't the CaS body height displayed on the character select screen so the opponent knows what they're facing?
  • Why is the largest CaS body still smaller than base Astaroth?

It just seems like CaS was originally intended as single player content and then clumsily shoved into the multiplayer aspect of SoulCalibur. If there is a SoulCalibur 7, I hope it's handled better. That center tile on the character select screen comes with some real caveats.
Yeah, these are much more subtle and reasonable points. And I think you're right: I do believe that (like much of the rest of this game) this is something that was rushed out the door without proper consideration. And like you, I am sympathetic to those who feel that a more nuts and bolts experience in ranked is the way to go. And I share the opinion that when Soulcalibur VII comes around, that if they want to keep this height variant feature to facilitate CaS in ranked, that they need to implement it more cohesively and transparently. Or just restrict it to player and local matches. I do believe that makes the most sense.

I feel similarly about a lot of design choices in SCVI: they clearly threw a lot ideas at the wall, without the time and resources necessary to actually dial them in and make them work (or in some cases, to determine if they actually benefit the game in the first place: looking at you, reversal edge). I only disagree as to the extent of which CaS in ranked is one of the major issues with the game (I don't think it is, considering the competitors for this tier of complaint), such that we have to hear about it on endless loop here until the heat death of the universe.