Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Zanaken

[10] Knight
I can’t believe there are actual Viola sympathizers lol I use her every single tournament and even I don’t try to deny the fact that she’s dumb broken. But this is the SC6 thread not the why SC5 Viola obviously needed to be fixed thread so let’s move on.
No, I totally get that she had some lopsided shenanigans, but it's the 'dumb-broken' that I take objection to.

Did you dominate every tournament you went to? You can't out-skill 'dumb-broken.' I've played against some pretty harsh anti-viola game and also just been beaten with classic space/punish. She's strong, but still less forgiving than the usual tourney favorites. I think her representation in tournaments speaks volumes given that she's also pretty fun to play.
 

Ramus

[14] Master
Viola and Z.W.E.I are tales of different puppet characters, if Viola had the absurdly long cool downs that Z.W.E.I did she wouldn't be half the mess she was.
 

mokamoka827

[13] Hero
While I enjoyed playing as Viola, I was always disappointed that her claw wasn't as prominent in her moveset. Honestly, I would've preferred if the claw was her primary weapon and the orb was just for throws and a few stronger attacks.
 

Ave

[12] Conqueror
If the claw was her main weapon she'd probably be the lowest of the low in terms of tiers. She'd have 0 range and that plus its low damage output would end up with her being the punching bag of SC.

Tactfully put, Viola's balls are her biggest assets.
 

mokamoka827

[13] Hero
If the claw was her main weapon she'd probably be the lowest of the low in terms of tiers. She'd have 0 range and that plus its low damage output would end up with her being the punching bag of SC.

Tactfully put, Viola's balls are her biggest assets.
Well if the claw was her primary weapon, her moveset obviously would have been notably different and it wouldn't have been as weak as it is in her orb-centric fighting style. There would likely be a lot more emphasis on speed and whatnot to make up for her minimal range.
 

CFW

[13] Hero
Idk how you people dont know after 6 years that viola is broken. You want a recent example? This just happend two months ago as a qualifying match for top 8.Skip to 39:30


Yeah an unseeable low touch of death isnt broken. Cool story guys tell me more.
That gave me indigestion.
 

WuHT

Premium Moderator
Yeah an unseeable low touch of death isnt broken. Cool story guys tell me more.
Its good when posters back up their argument with actual gameplay evidence rather than just hypothetical and theoretical talk.

Will anyone be brave enough to play devil's advocate and justify the "difficulty" of the setup or the fact that it takes 2 bars?

My memory is a bit hazy: can any poster tell me if Viola's combos were as potent before 1.03 patch ? I was disappointed (but understand why) that 1.03 was the final balance patch
 

Rex Dart

[11] Champion
This might be a purely linguistic distinction for most, but I'd like to put out there that a broken character is not the same thing as a top-tier, OP or unbalanced character.

A broken game is like MvC2, where only a few teams are viable at high-level play. If you want to compete you either learn those teams, or you develop strategies just to deal with them. (It's often the case that the tech employed by these characters is far beyond what the developers intended, but that doesn't mean something unanticipated is automatically broken.)

An unbalanced game is like Third Strike. Some characters clearly have better tools than the rest of the cast, but mid-tier characters can still hold their own at high-level play.

Of course this distinction is rather subjective, but Viola definitely doesn't seem broken to me. She's definitely top-tier (and probably OP), but she still went 3-2 against Omega. Just saying.

I loved Viola's design, but didn't like her moveset. I hope she doesn't return for SC6, but wouldn't be against her returning in a future game, ideally with a slightly altered moveset.
 

Macaulyn

[12] Conqueror
Idk how you people dont know after 6 years that viola is broken. You want a recent example? This just happend two months ago as a qualifying match for top 8.Skip to 39:30


Yeah an unseeable low touch of death isnt broken. Cool story guys tell me more.
I fail to see how this is any different from Hilde in SC4? She also had an infinite, and IIRC, unlike Viola, she was banned from some tournaments because she was much more broken. Yet somehow, I don't see all that noise about her now that she is more balanced in SC5. If Hilde became balanced from SC4 to SC5, then Viola (or her moveset) should be the same from SC5 to SC6. All this noise you're making is just childish.

she still went 3-2 against Omega. Just saying.
That is one of the things most people overlook. They see her doing impressively once, and just say "Oh, she is stupid, broken and should never exist", well, someone has to be on top, right? If it wasn't her, it would be α Patroklos, maybe, or someone else. And the thing is: not only is she not always picked (which means that, for many players, she is not desirable or even effective) and she can be dealt with, which means she is far from being the worst thing to ever exist. SC had worse when it comes to OP characters, all this noise is going too far.
 
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Zanaken

[10] Knight
Pretty sure that ToD was escapeable (looks a bit like 6a+b charge was messed up - I'll admit I'm not sure,) but a true one with a 66a 6b+k b+K be loop exists, so ok I can still concede that.

Doesn't seem that far off when Algol decides to load off some meter, to me, though. I just think the difficulty of the real ToD justifies the results. The inputs are difficult, the meter requirements couldn't be higher and the result of an almost guaranteed round are not unique.
 

Fatal_Exodus

[14] Master
Viola has the distinction of being a 2D zoner character being made for a 3D fighting platform gone horribly right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it). Whereas most 2D fighters (namely Aksys, to name one) had a manual combo break input, SCV didn't have one in the first place, which is why Viola seems so broken with her ToD combos.

Now SCVI actually has a mechanic like this in Soul Charge, and even if Viola does come back for the new game, I doubt those mechanics of hers will survive the transfer between games unscathed.
 
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garjian

[12] Conqueror
Viola has the distinction of being a 2D zoner character being made for a 3D fighting platform gone horribly right (or wrong, depending on how you look at it). Whereas most 2D fighters (namely Aksys, to name one) had a manual combo break input, SCV didn't have one in the first place, which is why Viola seems so broken with her ToD combos.

Now SCVI actually has a mechanic like this in Soul Charge, and even if Viola does come back for the new game, I doubt those mechanics of hers will survive the transfer between games unscathed.
This isn't true at all.
You can fix every ToD combo in one fix without effecting how the character plays whatsoever. Ready?

Remove air control nullification.

It's got nothing to do with an archetype or anything she's "supposed" to be. They made her break the rules without thoroughly testing the consequences and never bothered to fix it, instead making it worse by increasing the damage of B+K BE (which is what allowed her to actually do ToD damage).

With no AAB extender, you actually have to start using 33_99B to even use 2B+K BE, where it's actually reliable instead of a wonky tech trap half the time. Meterless combos do more damage with the orb where it's harder to pressure, instead of without, meaning you're not always trying to get rid of it at the end of combos and might even make use of that form.
Most importantly, it completely gets rid of B+K BE loops.
 
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Ave

[12] Conqueror
Btw guys don't you think that Hilde IS Lana Del Rey ???
The understated queen of the series? Who can serve looks and slay the stage (of history) at the same time? Um YES.

Well if the claw was her primary weapon, her moveset obviously would have been notably different and it wouldn't have been as weak as it is in her orb-centric fighting style. There would likely be a lot more emphasis on speed and whatnot to make up for her minimal range.
Without an orb on hand whenever she wants to use it, the variety of her moves would be very lacklustre. There isn't much you can do with just a claw apart from directional slashing and stabbing, and it's not like she could have a Freddy Krueger fear aspect to it bc that doesn't fit her character. The pointe influences that her and Amy's moves take from are all about sweeping, elegant, fluid motions, and without the orb she wouldn't have the room to do them. Viola is already fairly fast, but that wouldn't make up for the fact that SC pushes enemies away (something she wouldn't want) and her extension combos would crumble under a meterless GI that has a big enough window of opportunity to fit a grand piano through. Viola without an orb is like Ivy without the whip sword state, or Hilde with only her lance. I just can't see it working.