Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

[Rusted Blade]

Groh has white hair with blue/purple ends that glow when he is in SC. His outfit looks pretty modern, especially jacket (but that is the least of an issue). His eye-patch not only does look ridiculous but it also acts like some kind of phone. The whole Aval organisation feels more like a modern spy rather than a past conspiracy organisation, probably mostly due to the fact that they all have phones in their eye-patches and wear fancy jackets. I think the weapon itself is the least of his problems

I agree the entire vibe is off, but that said, the weapon definitely is not helping. Basically the current discussion has identified the two primary ways a characters can come off as silly: 1) a goofy weapon requiring an awkwardly/unrealistic moveset (and here, we clearly mean "goofy even by Soul Calibur's standards") and a absurdity in the overall look of their model. The latter can be caused by any number of character design decisions, but one of those which is most striking with regard to Groh is the anachronisms in his design--though it's not just that he's so modern in his design, but also that he specifically hits the exact intersection of emo and anime. Anyway, the general problem with Groh is that he's hitting on all cylinders with regard to both issues.

Mind you, he's not unique in this respect: if Voldo had not been a part of the series from the start and we were presented with his bdsm outfits and pneumatic drill moves for the first time in this game, I'm sure most of us would be here saying "What...the...F@#%!? What are they thinking?" In that respect, I'm quite confident that even I (I've been particularly damning in my criticism of his character design) will get used to Groh in time and think nothing of his ridiculous weapon and generally lame/trying-to-hard vibe should he return in future games. Letting your brain adapt to sheer lunacy and eye-gouging design choices is just a prerequisite of being a longterm devotee to Soul Calibur (and fighting games generally). Again, not to sound like a broken record, but I can embrace the cornball additions-- I just really, really want some more grounded characters to come into the franchise next time.

And even if Groh sticks as a franchise regular and doesn't get the "woopsie, forget you saw that!" treatment of Necrid, I'm never giving up on my right to point out to his fans (/ recycle my jokes) that he looks like he shops at Hot Topic and is on his way to audition as front man for a My Chemical Romance cover band. I mean, even if I someday take a left turn somewhere and stumble upon Robert Smith writing slam poetry about the inherent hopelessness of life through teary eyes and running mascara, it will still only be the second most emo thing I will have experienced in my life, because I've seen Groh. ;D

.........

dlc

I'll bet you most people commenting on this particular forum have the season pass, though, wouldn't you think? Anyway, I don't think anybody actually suggested labbing to Synalon as their advice on this occasion, did they?

 

[Heniek]

I agree the entire vibe is off, but that said, the weapon definitely is not helping. Basically the current discussion has identified the two primary ways a characters can come off as silly: 1) a goofy weapon requiring an awkwardly/unrealistic moveset (and here, we clearly mean "goofy even by Soul Calibur's standards") and a absurdity in the overall look of their model. The latter can be caused by any number of character design decisions, but one of those which is most striking with regard to Groh is the anachronisms in his design--though it's not just that he's so modern in his design, but also that he specifically hits the exact intersection of emo and anime. Anyway, the general problem with Groh is that he's hitting on all cylinders with regard to both issues.

Mind you, he's not unique in this respect: if Voldo had not been a part of the series from the start and we were presented with his bdsm outfits and pneumatic drill moves for the first time in this game, I'm sure most of us would be here saying "What...the...F@#%!? What are they thinking?" In that respect, I'm quite confident that even I (I've been particularly damning in my criticism of his character design) will get used to Groh in time and think nothing of his ridiculous weapon and generally lame/trying-to-hard vibe should he return in future games. Letting your brain adapt to sheer lunacy and eye-gouging design choices is just a prerequisite of being a longterm devotee to Soul Calibur (and fighting games generally). Again, not to sound like a broken record, but I can embrace the cornball additions-- I just really, really want some more grounded characters to come into the franchise next time.

And even if Groh sticks as a franchise regular and doesn't get the "woopsie, forget you saw that!" treatment of Necrid, I'm never giving up on my right to point out to his fans (/ recycle my jokes) that he looks like he shops at Hot Topic and is on his way to audition as front man for a My Chemical Romance cover band. I mean, even if I someday take a left turn somewhere and stumble upon Robert Smith writing slam poetry about the inherent hopelessness of life through teary eyes and running mascara, it will still only be the second most emo thing I will have experienced in my life, because I've seen Groh. ;D




I'll bet you most people commenting on this particular forum have the season pass, though, wouldn't you think? Anyway, I don't think anybody actually suggested labbing to Synalon as their advice on this occasion, did they?

Personally I don't find his weapon so off-putting although I can agree that mechanically I't doesn't have too much sense but then again neither does a ringblade, or a regular scythe. It's difficult to look at Voldo with an objective eye but I believe that he at least has pretty original idea about him being blind and applying attacks from both front and his back which normally is not a good situation for most characters most of the time.
I think you nailed the situation of Groh pretty well - while other characters have some of those odd, out of place things he nails them in basically all of aspects oh his character. I think I would be able to treat him better if he had at least other way of speaking or other character traits but it is what it is - as a whole he is an awful eyesore.

Regardless of all of that he is here to stay so I am willing and I think succeeding in getting used to him

 

[AMillionHP]

I agree the entire vibe is off, but that said, the weapon definitely is not helping. Basically the current discussion has identified the two primary ways a characters can come off as silly: 1) a goofy weapon requiring an awkwardly/unrealistic moveset (and here, we clearly mean "goofy even by Soul Calibur's standards") and a absurdity in the overall look of their model. The latter can be caused by any number of character design decisions, but one of those which is most striking with regard to Groh is the anachronisms in his design--though it's not just that he's so modern in his design, but also that he specifically hits the exact intersection of emo and anime. Anyway, the general problem with Groh is that he's hitting on all cylinders with regard to both issues.

Mind you, he's not unique in this respect: if Voldo had not been a part of the series from the start and we were presented with his bdsm outfits and pneumatic drill moves for the first time in this game, I'm sure most of us would be here saying "What...the...F@#%!? What are they thinking?" In that respect, I'm quite confident that even I (I've been particularly damning in my criticism of his character design) will get used to Groh in time and think nothing of his ridiculous weapon and generally lame/trying-to-hard vibe should he return in future games. Letting your brain adapt to sheer lunacy and eye-gouging design choices is just a prerequisite of being a longterm devotee to Soul Calibur (and fighting games generally). Again, not to sound like a broken record, but I can embrace the cornball additions-- I just really, really want some more grounded characters to come into the franchise next time.

And even if Groh sticks as a franchise regular and doesn't get the "woopsie, forget you saw that!" treatment of Necrid, I'm never giving up on my right to point out to his fans (/ recycle my jokes) that he looks like he shops at Hot Topic and is on his way to audition as front man for a My Chemical Romance cover band. I mean, even if I someday take a left turn somewhere and stumble upon Robert Smith writing slam poetry about the inherent hopelessness of life through teary eyes and running mascara, it will still only be the second most emo thing I will have experienced in my life, because I've seen Groh. ;D




I'll bet you most people commenting on this particular forum have the season pass, though, wouldn't you think? Anyway, I don't think anybody actually suggested labbing to Synalon as their advice on this occasion, did they?

Uh no.

And if you're suggesting learning anything that requires "practice, time and patience", what exactly would that entail doing?

 

[Ukkesh]

Uh no.

And if you're suggesting learning anything that requires "practice, time and patience", what exactly would that entail doing?

Stare intensely at grøh in the CaS until you can bear him.

 

[Rusted Blade]

Uh no.

And if you're suggesting learning anything that requires "practice, time and patience", what exactly would that entail doing?

Well, even then, I'm not seeing anyone who answered Synalon with the words "practice, time and patience" or anything along those lines; even Kilmat's comment, lean as it was, did give a more precise suggestion than "just practice"--and his response regarding memorization, if obvious, is the appropriate answer to what you have to do (the only thing you can do) with regard to learning/internalizing how many hits are in a string.

But even if I do find that to be something a strawman argument, I'll still bite: if someone had predicated their advice in a blanket statement about "practice, time and patience" and you suggested that could only be accomplished by labbing, I think they could fairly point out that each of those three terms could apply to plenty of activities that never require you to so much as load up training mode.

Stare intensely at grøh in the CaS until you can bear him.

Better be prepared for both screen burn and retinal damage. Also a lifelong psychological compulsion to take a swing at anyone with blue highlights in their hair.

 

[Ave]

i cannot stress how tilted i get when people win on ranked by a lucky shot/ring out and then dont rematch after omgggg

also is it just me or do moves with slow start up like taki’s shuriken, 2b’s alternate CE etc take twice as long to activate when the enemy is closer/performing an attack

 

[Ciruxxx83]

Everyone seems to want a flail characters. But how would they make the moves? There's only so much you can really do. A mace wielder would probs function similarly to Soph, Cass or one of the Alexandra's. I'm no choreographer, but anime styles give at least a bit more creative freedom.

I'd rather have Cass, Amy, Hilde, Hwang and Hilde, but I liked Zwei and Viola. A lot. I thought Zwei was cool. I like the lolita style Azwel.

With the anime styles, they should tone it down a tad with groh, but both of them make complete sense. Shards of the swords give all sorts of abilities.

I'd like to see a Knight Templar/ War Priest character who follows Soul Caliber, and has a soul charge kinda like Kilik's, with a Soul Calibur design to it if anything.

If they came up with moves for the hula-hoop, the twin blade (or whaterver Groh's weapon is called), and Ivy's blade, a flail and shield should pose no challenge at all. Also, I don't necessarily see a mace and shield playing like Sophie. It could be something like a heavy with a big (huge) shield, and make him/her rely on shield moves as much as on mace moves. I don't know, there's so much to do without having to borrow anime stuff. And don't get me wrong, I have learned some Groh and Azwell myself, and always loved Ivy, but still feel there could be some other styles represented that do not involve supernatural-out-of-thin-air weapons and super saiyans teleporting back and forth. Again, this is just my opinion, and I'll keep playing even if they say next DLC is gonna have Algol, Viola, ZWEI and Necrid. I just hope it doesn't happen.

 

[Rusted Blade]

If they came up with moves for the hula-hoop, the twin blade (or whaterver Groh's weapon is called), and Ivy's blade, a flail and shield should pose no challenge at all. Also, I don't necessarily see a mace and shield playing like Sophie. It could be something like a heavy with a big (huge) shield, and make him/her rely on shield moves as much as on mace moves. I don't know, there's so much to do without having to borrow anime stuff. And don't get me wrong, I have learned some Groh and Azwell myself, and always loved Ivy, but still feel there could be some other styles represented that do not involve supernatural-out-of-thin-air weapons and super saiyans teleporting back and forth. Again, this is just my opinion, and I'll keep playing even if they say next DLC is gonna have Algol, Viola, ZWEI and Necrid. I just hope it doesn't happen.

I think it's doable to make a flail work, but Ukkesh is right--it wouldn't be easy to make the movements look appropriate to the weapon and also make the moveset viable. If nothing else, getting the physics of the ball and chain (assuming that it's the classical hollywood-inspired variety of flail you are imagining) looking "correct" would be a bit of challenge. Actually, interesting historical note: the one-handed flail is such an unwieldy weapon that no one really knows for certain how they were employed in close quarters or tourney combat, and some actually suspect they are more an invention of the imaginations of later generations than anything that was every widely used in battle or personal combat. Of course, there is also the more historically significant long-hafted / two-handed flail, but there is a reason it was known as a peasant's weapon: it's not exactly a design that would be the first choice of a professional combatant.

Still, as you say, they've made more out-there weapons look decent--no reason they can't here. I wonder if a mace and shield wielder doesn't make more sense, though. (Actually, based on the images you shared the other day, I'm thinking mace and shield is actually what you meant--video and computer games have been mislabeling/confusing "mace," "flail," and "morning star" since forever, and this has bled into common parlance; for the record though, technically flails are weapons which attach the striking component to a haft via a chain, whereas maces and morning stars are either all one piece (either forged or composite metal) or affix their heads to a wooden haft rigidly, with studs). With a mace wielder in particular, I think the moveset would probably have to work in a space/role that is closer to a slightly lighter and more mobile variant on Astaroth's balance, rather than being a heavier version of Sophie. It would have to be a slightly longer than historically typical mace (or flail) though; anything too short is just not viable in Soul Calibur outside of the fastest rush-down characters.

In this vein, I've personally always thought a meteor hammer would be great. I think Ivy's been allowed to abuse her position as the only zone-control beast with a chained weapon for too long--other than that "sickle" still in SCIII:CE, that is, but that hardly counts. A meteor hammer moveset that dominates the middle to long range with average speed or faster, heavy hitting/stunning verticals and wide sweeping horizontals? Sign me up! The difficulty would be in finding ways to keep it from being OP, since it's main disadvantages (that it runs high risk of being captured or parried) are difficult to represent in the Soul Calibur formula. I guess you would just make it a super low damage weapon and/or give it very punishable wind-ups.

 

[AMillionHP]

Well, even then, I'm not seeing anyone who answered Synalon with the words "practice, time and patience" or anything along those lines; even Kilmat's comment, lean as it was, did give a more precise suggestion than "just practice"--and his response regarding memorization, if obvious, is the appropriate answer to what you have to do (the only thing you can do) with regard to learning/internalizing how many hits are in a string.

But even if I do find that to be something a strawman argument, I'll still bite: if someone had predicated their advice in a blanket statement about "practice, time and patience" and you suggested that could only be accomplished by labbing, I think they could fairly point out that each of those three terms could apply to plenty of activities that never require you to so much as load up training mode.



Better be prepared for both screen burn and retinal damage. Also a lifelong psychological compulsion to take a swing at anyone with blue highlights in their hair.

I guess i should probably point out the hostile tone in my posts was directed at NB for how they are handling DLC characters. Not really so much the people here giving advice. I assume most of us did buy the season pass so they dont really think much or forgot not everyone may have access to 2B.

But are we really doing this? Are you telling me you do not use the training feature to learn characters? Anyone who is even slightly competitive uses it one way or another. Also, dont you notice a lot of the comments or criticism about her in general? She's not what you would call a straight forward, or typical SC character. That obviously exacerbates the situation.

 

[damn-I-Suck]

so as there's no mimics I guess I shouldn't complain. Anything, even 2b, is better than a mimic

 

[Rusted Blade]

I guess i should probably point out the hostile tone in my posts was directed at NB for how they are handling DLC characters. Not really so much the people here giving advice. I assume most of us did buy the season pass so they dont really think much or forgot not everyone may have access to 2B.

But are we really doing this? Are you telling me you do not use the training feature to learn characters? Anyone who is even slightly competitive uses it one way or another. Also, dont you notice a lot of the comments or criticism about her in general? She's not what you would call a straight forward, or typical SC character. That obviously exacerbates the situation.

Well, I see where you're coming from and honestly I don't get why they don't add the DLC characters to training; aside from creating a more level playing field for prep, it would also be a great sales pitch for the character itself. But I do think that issue is a separate one from whether or not someone who might (hypothetically) encourage practice is per se suggesting labbing; they could mean a lot of things.

Myself, I do lab a fair bit, but in waves; when I first start to play a given character in a new entry of the franchise, I take a day or two or three to do nothing but lab for hours on end--then after I start playing that style consistently, I often do little or no labbing for weeks until I hit a wall in my skill progression, at which point I'll spend an hour here or there. But while I'd like to think I'm a high level(ish) player, I'm not a tourney player and I'm only going to spend so many of the few hours I can find to play these days studying frame data and determining the outcome of every theoretical scenario; I'd rather take the more scenic route of learning in contest with other players, even if does leave me a less dominating player at the end of the day. Fun has got to take center stage, right? So most of my "practice" is against live opponents. That's not to say I don't think players should have training mode as an option to drill against all moves--I'm just emphasizing that practice can mean a lot of things.

 

[RagingGhost]

I think it's doable to make a flail work, but Ukkesh is right--it wouldn't be easy to make the movements look appropriate to the weapon and also make the moveset viable. If nothing else, getting the physics of the ball and chain (assuming that it's the classical hollywood-inspired variety of flail you are imagining) looking "correct" would be a bit of challenge. Actually, interesting historical note: the one-handed flail is such an unwieldy weapon that no one really knows for certain how they were employed in close quarters or tourney combat, and some actually suspect they are more an invention of the imaginations of later generations than anything that was every widely used in battle or personal combat. Of course, there is also the more historically significant long-hafted / two-handed flail, but there is a reason it was known as a peasant's weapon: it's not exactly a design that would be the first choice of a professional combatant.

Still, as you say, they've made more out-there weapons look decent--no reason they can't here. I wonder if a mace and shield wielder doesn't make more sense, though. (Actually, based on the images you shared the other day, I'm thinking mace and shield is actually what you meant--video and computer games have been mislabeling/confusing "mace," "flail," and "morning star" since forever, and this has bled into common parlance; for the record though, technically flails are weapons which attach the striking component to a haft via a chain, whereas maces and morning stars are either all one piece (either forged or composite metal) or affix their heads to a wooden haft rigidly, with studs). With a mace wielder in particular, I think the moveset would probably have to work in a space/role that is closer to a slightly lighter and more mobile variant on Astaroth's balance, rather than being a heavier version of Sophie. It would have to be a slightly longer than historically typical mace (or flail) though; anything too short is just not viable in Soul Calibur outside of the fastest rush-down characters.

In this vein, I've personally always thought a meteor hammer would be great. I think Ivy's been allowed to abuse her position as the only zone-control beast with a chained weapon for too long--other than that "sickle" still in SCIII:CE, that is, but that hardly counts. A meteor hammer moveset that dominates the middle to long range with average speed or faster, heavy hitting/stunning verticals and wide sweeping horizontals? Sign me up! The difficulty would be in finding ways to keep it from being OP, since it's main disadvantages (that it runs high risk of being captured or parried) are difficult to represent in the Soul Calibur formula. I guess you would just make it a super low damage weapon and/or give it very punishable wind-ups.

I think a warhammer would make more sense. You know, something like this, but polearm-sized.

 

[Rusted Blade]

I think a warhammer would make more sense. You know, something like this, but polearm-sized.

Like a bec de corbin?

 

[RagingGhost]

Like a bec de corbin?

Exactly.

 

[HackNslash]

Tara Platt as Setsuka sounded absolutely fine to me. Her voice acting befit the kind of persona that Setsuka has, literally silk-hiding-steel.

Meh, didn’t like it.

 

[Leonhart]

i cannot stress how tilted i get when people win on ranked by a lucky shot/ring out and then dont rematch after omgggg

Players who don't rematch know they're probably gonna lose, which seems to be a general problem. Some kids are just SO afraid of loosing that they refuse to actually spend some time with their opponent, beyond a single match. It's not like there's an abundance of people on ranked and still many choose to do a hit-and-run when faced with threatening odds. It's childish, feeble and it dilutes the entire mode. It also happens when higher ranked players win, as if they're assuming you can't even give them a challenge. It's impudent high-horse dickery on a grand scale and highly off-putting.

 

[Leonhart]

Are any Cervantes players in here able to do his jf 214+B reliably with a controller? It's so damn inconsistent on my end.

 

[Klimat]

And even if Groh sticks as a franchise regular and doesn't get the "woopsie, forget you saw that!" treatment of Necrid, I'm never giving up on my right to point out to his fans (/ recycle my jokes) that he looks like he shops at Hot Topic and is on his way to audition as front man for a My Chemical Romance cover band.

Groh and the whole Awal Organisation with their secret society shtick were invented specifically as a lore-friendly supporting cast to CaS-centric story modes, so I believe Grow will indeed stick as a franchise regular for as long as people continue to like CaS, so basically until the end of times.

It could be something like a heavy with a big (huge) shield, and make him/her rely on shield moves as much as on mace moves. I don't know, there's so much to do without having to borrow anime stuff.

The problem with a big heavy shield character is that realistically they should perform autoGIs by just staying in neutral against most moves, otherwise what's the damn point if you simply allow enemy attacks to clip right through a big giant shield? Sophitia and other Greeks only work because their shields are tiny, so it is believable for people to accept they have to block each individual attack by moving their shields in a proper blocking position manually every time. Big shields are supposed to be wielded in a defensive position by default at all times, covering 90% of front attacks. Big shield wielders are also supposed to be able to attack while blocking. Frankly I have no idea how to make all those things possible in a SoulCalibur game while maintaining any kind of realism.
Someone previously suggested to make it a retractable big shield for it to make sense, but at that point we are back into anime territory, so again, what's the point? Azwel already has a big retractable shield that aGIs attacks left and right whenever deployed. I doubt Azwel is what pro-realism people want.

 

[HackNslash]

Players who don't rematch know they're probably gonna lose, which seems to be a general problem. Some kids are just SO afraid of loosing that they refuse to actually spend some time with their opponent, beyond a single match. It's not like there's an abundance of people on ranked and still many choose to do a hit-and-run when faced with threatening odds. It's childish, feeble and it dilutes the entire mode. It also happens when higher ranked players win, as if they're assuming you can't even give them a challenge. It's impudent high-horse dickery on a grand scale and highly off-putting.

I have to strongly disagree with that, I’m D5 with Sophitia and my E1 Zasalamel has struggled to follow suit because of the plethora of G ranks he gets paired with.
Even yesterday while playing my D5 Sophitia got about 10 G rank matches in the space of 2 hours play.

I usually quit after the first match as you don’t level up when fighting them and a lot of the time they never expose you to tech traps, combos, strategic attack patterns like seasoned players do.
and that gets me more annoyed than getting my shit pushed in my B Ranks.

FIX the match making PLEASE!

 

[Leonhart]

I have to strongly disagree with that, I’m D5 with Sophitia and my E1 Zasalamel has struggled to follow suit because of the plethora of G ranks he gets paired with.
Even yesterday while playing my D5 Sophitia got about 10 G rank matches in the space of 2 hours play.

I usually quit after the first match as you don’t level up when fighting them and a lot of the time they never expose you to tech traps, combos, strategic attack patterns like seasoned players do.
and that gets me more annoyed than getting my shit pushed in my B Ranks.

FIX the match making PLEASE!

I'm not denying there are those who have more legitimate reasons for not rematching. However, it really isn't possible to judge someones abilities based off a single match. So much can go wrong, completely throwing off impressions.