Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

True but in SCVI (and SCI), Sieg and Night are the same so they shouldn't coexist, yet nobody seems to find it odd (which is perfectly fine). Viola and Amy being the same person and both available to fight each other is "as odd" as Sieg and Night ^^

The game spans on several years, there's no big deal in adding two characters who are the same and play differently, so let's not focus on "how chronogically correct" it is, but rather on "how complete" the game would be once we have all the fighting styles from the previous game ^^
That's the thing, though, like in my example about Amy and Viola as would be in this game, Siegfried starts at the very beginning as Siegfried, becomes Nightmare, and then becomes Siegfried again. At the end of this game, he is Siegfried. If there's no justification to bring Nightmare back (but there will be, see SoulCalibur II, SoulCalibur III, and SoulCalibur IV), then SoulCalibur VII would only logically have Siegfried, but not Nightmare. It's not odd that characters being one in the same coexist in the same game where they both do, in fact, appear as either identity in the same game.

Just like how having Nightmare and Raphael both was okay in SoulCalibur V, though that story was incomplete, if it was complete, then we would have seen Raphael regain control of his body and pursue Amy in the story after Nightmare was defeated and discarded off the ledge by Z.W.E.I., who was then knocked off the same ledge by Pyrrha. That's where the idea that Raphael and Z.W.E.I. would have worked together to find Viola and Amy comes from.

So it's not an issue right now, in the game that does span multiple years, but in SoulCalibur VII, which would start in 1590 and move forward to... we don't really know, but at least 1591, probably a few years after to show the aftermath of the events of SoulCalibur IV, then for two versions of the same character to exist, then both versions of the same character would both need to be involved in those years of the story.

I agree with you that it would be better, as a game, to be fully inclusive, and include everyone, but if someone is canonically killed off or transformed permanently into another state, then it doesn't make lore sense for them to be here, and the older SoulCalibur games would have an easier time getting away with that than SoulCalibur VI, and presumably SoulCalibur VII, would, with how seriously they're taking the story now, where every event shown in any story mode is canon, with no what-if scenarios and false endings.
 
Both Viola and him use floating weapons. I'm certain this is the case. HOWEVER, I'd greatly prefer if Viola is a clone of Amy. He should try to capture her, but she escapes. Then as a last minute twist, it's revealed that he 'copied her life force' or something like that, and builds a clone from it.

Anything to make Amy and Viola separate characters so that everybody wins in the end.
So basically turn Amy and Viola into Kasumi and Phase 4 from DOA? Can we come up with something else? I’m highkey sick of fighting games copying off each other lol.
 
The clone route is unnecessary, honestly.

As much as I would like to, I don't much expect Viola to make an appearance unless Astral Chaos time shenanigans come into play for a presumed Soul Chronicle; this looks to me like just set up, much like Dumas and Azwel's role in Raphael's storyline.
But if she were, it would be no different than other alter egos. You can have Nightmare and Sigfried fight in any stage. Is one a vision, an illusion? Who knows, who cares? You can have a character fight themselves, which often isn't acknowledged.

--Forgon
 
So...Are we getting even more customization or are we getting new fighting styles?
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Speaking about copying i found a lot of reference in MK11 copy from Tekken, SC and SF, like the obvious Rage mode/ rage art, 2 midders just like SFV (defensive and offensive), and the new character geras that has a lot common with Zas, stop time, black guy that looks like Teal'c and cie, he also has moves like Ivy's 2 b+g and 3 b+g , as @sytus said it's quite common at this point not even much surprising lol

So...Are we getting even more customization or are we getting new fighting styles?
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So maybe those snow yellow reptile and cie were referring to this line? some kind of just CaS related to those characters, would quite wack if so, i wanted Setsuka "en chair et en os", not just her CaS stuffs.
 
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Speaking about copying i found a lot of reference in MK11 copy from Tekken, SC and SF, like the obvious Rage mode/ rage art, 2 midders just like SFV (defensive and offensive), and the new character geras that has a lot common with Zas, stop time, black guy that looks like Teal'c and cie, he also has moves like Ivy's 2 b+g and 3 b+g , as @sytus said it's quite common at this point not even much surprising lol



So maybe those snow yellow reptile and cie were referring to this line? some kind of just CaS related to those characters, would quite wack if so, i wanted Setsuka "en chair et en os", not just her CaS stuffs.

hmmm......I thought that too. but I'd still prefer we got the actual characters. if nothing else, so that we get those characters' outfits in CAS, which are always superior, quality wise, to the normal CAS parts.

still, I wouldn't mind extra fighting styles for CAS. like the Devil Jin style.
 
Speaking about copying i found a lot of reference in MK11 copy from Tekken, SC and SF, like the obvious Rage mode/ rage art, 2 midders just like SFV (defensive and offensive), and the new character geras that has a lot common with Zas, stop time, black guy that looks like Teal'c and cie, he also has moves like Ivy's 2 b+g and 3 b+g , as @sytus said it's quite common at this point not even much surprising lol



So maybe those snow yellow reptile and cie were referring to this line? some kind of just CaS related to those characters, would quite wack if so, i wanted Setsuka "en chair et en os", not just her CaS stuffs.
Anyone notice how crushing blows seem very similar to Lethal hit?
 
Anyone notice how crushing blows seem very similar to Lethal hit?

Oh yeah of course that too, it was quite screaming as well.

hmmm......I thought that too. but I'd still prefer we got the actual characters. if nothing else, so that we get those characters' outfits in CAS, which are always superior, quality wise, to the normal CAS parts.

still, I wouldn't mind extra fighting styles for CAS. like the Devil Jin style.

Yeah sure, but not like DJ tho, he quite broke the game lol
 
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True but in SCVI (and SCI), Sieg and Night are the same so they shouldn't coexist, yet nobody seems to find it odd (which is perfectly fine). Viola and Amy being the same person and both available to fight each other is "as odd" as Sieg and Night ^^

The game spans on several years, there's no big deal in adding two characters who are the same and play differently, so let's not focus on "how chronogically correct" it is, but rather on "how complete" the game would be once we have all the fighting styles from the previous game ^^
They exist at two different times in within the timeline. It's not like Siegfried just isn't around, and they don't fight each other in the eyes of the public, they are only mental battles. So if Amy and Viola existed as the same person in the same game it would still have to follow the same rules.

We wouldn't really have to bother cloning Amy, I can see her having an age transformation that triggers under circumstances, and eventually separating. She'll be our female Nightmare in a sense. I forget what those characters are called, that go from prepubescents to mature versions of themselves.
 
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I forget what those characters are called, that go from prepubescents to mature versions of themselves.

It's called lazy writing, a trope that only shows up in comic books and pulp fantasy. I'm very much with JohnMckee on this one. We don't nerdy obsessive lore-wrangling and one convoluted fan theory after another (each more torturous to an already asinine plot than the previous one) to explain away these kinds of inconsistencies. This work art/media is a video game first, and a story second (and it's a very distant second). Every fighting game defies the very notion of logic and basic common sense with it's premise, to say nothing of explaining how all of these people end up end the same places over and over gain, fighting repetitive battles that never have an resolution or long-term consequences, and fans need to have the ability to disassociate themselves from the geeky obsessive need to make it all fit together in some reasonable fashion, because the mode of story telling doesn't lend itself to beleivability or consistency--it's only meant as window dressing for the underlying selling point, the gameplay.

And John is absolutely right about this: every fighting franchise, SC most assuredly included, relies on rosters that makes no possible sense in terms of plot continuity. I mean, when you select a character and then your buddy selects the same character for a match, do you get up and reset the console because it just doesn't make any sense? Do you pause the game and say "Alright, if we're going to do this, we need to come to an understanding of how this could be...now, I'm thinking the most logical explanation is that one of these Talim's is an illusion created by Azwell to try to break her mind. Now I don't mind being evil Talim if necessary, but I'd prefer to be the original if that's alright with you." No, of course you don't (or at least, I really want to believe you don't)...you just play the damn game--or you really should anyway. Nothing about any fighting game world makes sense and, frankly, Soul Calibur leads the pack in the insanity and "don''t look too closely or it all falls apart" plot department.

And I didn't just take two paragraphs to make that point sheerly for the sake of shitting on someone else's preferences. This need to try to make the Soul Calibur story into something more than it ever really can be has now started to have severe impacts upon how complete the game product that we receive is. Look back at the thousand and a half pages of this thread and you'll see one consistent theme that comes up more often than anything else: complaints about how the game seems incomplete in one sense or another. The smallest roster of any Soul Calibur game since SCI, the smallest CaS selection since SCIII, the smallest stage selection of any Soul Calibur game ever. They made this game on a shoestring budget and (despite it still be a solid entry in franchise and worth every penny I spend on it and every bit of DLC they ultimately offer) that budget effect shows in every aspect of the game.

And yet what did they do? The crammed forty hours of badly scripted, poorly acted, tediously plotted narrative into it, costing who knows how much in resources to psuedo-animate 200 visual novel exchanges between two dimensional characters (most of them cookie-cutter NPCs) delivering un-ending hours of mind-numbingly pointless dialogue. How many characters, stages, and CaS items were cut to accommodate that trash? And all because game developers are walking in tenterhooks, afraid of every making a game in the modern era that doesn't have a fully fleshed out story as if they are here to deliver us Anna friggin' Karenina, rather than just a satisfying number of stages to have our virtual puppets chop at one-another. How many months sooner would we have Amy and Cass if both didn't need a "soul chronicle"? Ugh, the whole thing just annoys me to no end. And now people want every single possible match-up a roster for the multiplayer might throw up to have a cannon seal of approval or else argue that it shouldn't be in the game. Holy Mother of not understanding the point! I love a good story, more than pretty much anything else in the world, friends--but Soul Calibur ain't that and never will be. Look for it elsewhere (I can recommend a thousand of them, even if speculative fiction is your thing) and let the devs make these games what they were meant to be--games!
 
@Rusted Blade In my opinion your wrong. The roster is what makes these games as popular as they are. And a story that allows you to have as many characters in the game at the same time, and tell a story appeals to the overall preference of all players. Lets just say that every Soul Character was in this game, that be cool because that would be accessible to the people who just want to play and just want to CaS. But the players who had been playing the game for the story would be butt hurt and make complaint video after complaint. To say the story mode doesn't need to be in the game do you remember the backlash to Street Fighter V just giving people nothing but versus mode. Do you think characters can just abruptly change for no reason? Liu Kang proved that will piss the players off. How many times have they had to fix the series because they got too convoluted. The SCV cast proved that would piss us off. In my opinion Tekken and Street Fighter are the best fighters out there because they have a great roster. Great gameplay. Great story. These three elements have helped these two franchises step out of just the realm of the fighting game to other media such as live actions, animes, mangas and so on. Guilty Gear even has a animated episodic story mode, that I thought was really entertaining and creative. It's not lazy writing if she turns at the full moon, if she just ages normally, if she picks up the crystal ball and her hair turns white, if she has split personalities, if she is possessed, if she transforms because something triggers her, if she comes back from the future, if shes cloned, killed and brought back. I think a majority of people just want to have both of them in the game at the same time. And if your friend says, "Hey wait? Isn't that girl from the game that was in the time skip?" You can simply give them an explanation of why they are both in the game. And that is that, if they decided to like it oh well. Tell them to go write there own fan fiction.
 
@Rusted Blade The roster is what makes these games as popular as they are.
A roster for a broad and (hopefully) well-balanced selection of movesets, yes. Not goofy pulp fantasy stories that most people grow out of takign serious around age 12.
Lets just say that every Soul Character was in this game, that be cool because that would be accessible to the people who just want to play and just want to CaS. But the players who had been playing the game for the story would be butt hurt and make complaint video after complaint. To say the story mode doesn't need to be in the game do you remember the backlash to Street Fighter V just giving people nothing but versus mode.
I think you can't have really followed the point of my comments very well if you don't think I get why Namco chose to design the game in the fashion they did. Of course they were bowing to commercial pressure from a certain (and not by any means small) portion of their consumer base. What I'm saying is that those players need to mature and stop expecting a video game to be all things to all people and expect every product in the entire industry to cater to their idiosyncratic needs for an explanation about why floating shirtless men throwing phantom axes and hadoukens at one-another need 100 hours of produced backstory so that it "makes sense."
How many times have they had to fix the series because they got too convoluted. The SCV cast proved that would piss us off.
People were not (for the most part) annoyed with SCV's roster (nor the game generally) because of the lack of backstory to contextualize it. It was the fact that they dumped the majority of the cast to throw in a bunch of emo edgelords for no particularly good reason.
In my opinion Tekken and Street Fighter are the best fighters out there because they have a great roster. Great gameplay. Great story.
Dude, if you think Street Fighter and Tekken have "great stories", there's really no way for us to have a conversation about those stories that doesn't result in my being very insulting, even if I have no intention to directly offend, simply because I can't think of two stories that better exemplify narratives that are obviously and without question pulp nonsense that prove the very assertion I am trying to make here: you can still make a great game while having the absolutely lowest of quality, throw-away nonsense as the story behind it. Indeed, the point I'm trying to make here is that with fighters in particular, sometimes it helps to have nothing but nonsense behind it, because ti actively discourages people from looking to closely at the fact that a set-up that has the same people punching, stabbing, and torching eachother with magic over and over again makes no sense.
These three elements have helped these two franchises step out of just the realm of the fighting game to other media such as live actions, animes, mangas and so on.
Ah, you mean, like this and this? Yeah...where would the world be without such memorable works of art... Dude, just because something is marketable enough to get people to watch it is not a defense of its quality as storytelling. Just look at everything with the Star Wars brand on it that has been made since the 80's... And the results have been historically especially bad whenever people have tried to transplant video game worlds into other media. Because then it becomes unavoidably obvious how silly and outright stupid the story concepts behind them are, concepts that are just background aesthetic when you are enjoying the gameplay itself, as its own kind of achievement.

Anyway, I'm sure that there will be an explanation for how Amy becomes Viola. And that's fine and reasonable--that's not what I was talking about above. My point is that you don't need a plot device that explains how the both of them can be on the screen at the same time, any more than you should need an explanation for why there would be two Mitsurugis or two Talims. If your brain rebels at a 1P and 2P variant of a character being on the screen at the same time without a cannon explanation...well, that sounds like a mental health issue level of neuroticism frankly, and good luck with it--but frankly, I think fighting game developers should be ignoring that segment of the game playing community. ;)

Also, on a side note, I think you're gettign way ahead of yourself if you think this is building towards Viola being in SCVI as a playable character. I think this is just build up for later entries, the nods towards Viola.
 
@Rusted Blade Doesn't matter too me when Viola is in the game. Never mentioned her being in the game at all. It's a game and it's entertainment. I enjoy the story, I enjoy the CaS, I enjoy playing the game. I'm not someone that focuses on being the best player but I would never sit around and expect an aspect of the game to be neglected.
 
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