Soul Calibur VI: General discussion

Rusted Blade said:
I presume we are still in agreement as to the original point: that the tower shield is likely to be awkward and difficult to map to Soulcalibur mechanics.
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Sure thing. I was the one to first bring up this point all along.
Rusted Blade said:
And I've seen the "best surviving example" referenced in that excerpt above: it is definitely not designed for anything but formation fighting--it, like most scutus used by the legionaries--is highly convex and would be incredibly ineffective/self-defeating for one-on-one combat. To the extent that scutus were used in gladiatorial combat, it is likely that they were adapted to be hybrids of more reasonable size. Even if they weren't, there's some things you need to understand to fully contextualize their use in gladiatorial games: the armaments of the gladiators were far form always chosen by preference of the combatants; they were selected for spectacle, with the various combatants given the armour and weapons of particular cultures to fit the thematics of famous battles being alluded to by the pitched fights.
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Rusted Blade said:
Beyond that, there is the question of whether the scutum, or any shield that is fairly described as a tower shield, is a good choice for one-on-one combat. I think the answer to that is clearly no: there is some flex in this question because of the variability in sizes that the legionnaire shield evolved through in the republican era. However, if we are talking about the most prototypical and longest lasting variant that was in use for most of the years of Roman military expansionism from the late republic through the following few centuries, then no---those sheilds would have been (to varying extents) far from ideal for non-formation fighting--they were fairly specialized kit.
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Things you are saying make no sense and frankly sound so crazy to me I think it should be self evident to everyone that you are wrong, but hell, we are talking ancient Rome history here, a period that is well documented by a plethora of ancient Roman historians, so I bet if I spend an hour or two of my life researching I'll be able to find undeniable written proof of my rightness.
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And here it is....
"The young Roman nobles were for a long time silent. Ashamed to decline the challenge, they were loath to volunteer for a service of transcendent peril. [2] Then Titus Manlius, the son of Lucius, who had rescued his father from the persecution of the tribune, left his station and went to the dictator. “Without your orders, General,” he said, “I would fain never leave my place to fight, not though I saw that victory was assured; [3] but if you permit me, I would show that beast who dances out so boldly before the standards of the enemy, that I come of the family that hurled the column of Gauls from the Tarpeian Rock.” To whom the dictator made answer, “Success attend your valour, Titus Manlius, and your loyalty to father and to country! [4] Go, and with Heaven's help make good the unconquerable Roman name.” The young man's friends then armed him; he assumed the shield of a foot-soldier, and to his side he buckled a Spanish sword, convenient for close fighting. Armed and accoutred, they led him forth to the Gaul, who in his stupid glee —for the ancients have thought even this worth mentioning —thrust his tongue out in derision. They then retired to their station, and the two armed men were left by themselves in the midst, like gladiators more than soldiers, and by no means evenly matched, to judge from [6] outward show. One [p. 387] had a body extraordinary for its size, and resplendent in a coat of shifting hues and armour painted and chased with gold: the other was of a middling stature for a soldier, and his arms were but indifferent to look at, being suitable but [7] not ornate. He neither sang nor danced about with idle flourishes of his weapons, but his bosom swelled with courage and silent wrath, and all his ferocity was reserved for the crisis of [8] the combat. When they had taken their ground between the two embattled armies, while the hearts of the surrounding multitude were suspended betwixt hope and fear, the Gaul, whose huge bulk towered [9??] above the other, advanced his shield with the left arm, to parry the attack of his oncoming enemy, and delivered a slashing stroke with his sword, that made a mighty clatter but did [10] no harm. The Roman, with the point of his weapon raised, struck up his adversary's shield with a blow from his own against its lower edge; and slipping in between the man's sword and his body, so close that no part of his own person was exposed, he gave one thrust and then immediately another, and gashing the groin and belly of his enemy brought him headlong to the ground, where he lay stretched out over a [11] monstrous space. To the body of his fallen foe he offered no other indignity than to despoil it of one thing —a chain which, spattered with blood, he cast round his [12] own neck. The Gauls were transfixed with fear and wonder, while the Romans, quitting their station, ran eagerly to meet their champion and brought him with praise and gratulation to [13] the dictator. Amidst the rude banter thrown out by the soldiers in a kind of verse, was heard the appellation of Torquatus, and thereafter [p. 389] this was given currency as an honoured surname, used even by descendants of [14] the family. The dictator gave him, besides, a golden chaplet, and loudly extolled that fight of his in a public speech."
Titus Livius (Livy), The History of Rome, Book 7
You can read more on Titus Livy here.

So a Roman soldier and a Gaul solder basically enter an arranged one-on-one duel for both of their armies to see, they can prepare in any way they want and both men decide to bring in their shields to battle, of which it is specifically mentioned the Roman guy brought a standard Roman foot-soldier shield (which would be Scutum according to Roman war doctrine). It is also specifically mentioned the Roman guy ended up striking with the lower part of his shield against the lower part of the opponent's shield, which sounds exactly like the move from the video I shared previously you can see at 1:49:

Also if that is not enough evidence for you, here is an interpretation from a modern historian:
"As Suetonius' description of the fiasco at Caligula's munus suggests, the typical opponent of the retiarius was the secutor: literally 'chaser.' That is what Isidore of Seville believed: 'he is called secutor from the fact that he pursues a retiarius' (Isid. Etym. 18.55: secutor ab insequendo retiarium dictus). We are told that Commodus, a secutor, won a thousand gladiatorial palms, either by defeating or by killing retiarii (SHA Comm. 12.11). The secutor was a heavily armed gladiator who carried a large rectangular shield (scutum) and a sword (gladius), and wore a visored helmet with a simple crest, a subligaculum with a wide belt, a manica on his right arm, and a greave on his forward leg, as is also clear on the cup from Colchester (fig. 5.1: the figure on the left). Like the retiarius, the secutor seems to have evolved in the early first century ad. The term, secutor, however, may suggest that tactics rather than arms were the primary semantic consideration; the secutor was one who pursued an opponent. Artemidorus, in his book of dream interpretations (the Onirocritica) from the mid- to late-second century ad, to which we shall return at the end of this chapter, says that the secutor always chases (aei Sicokei). By contrast with the nimble and quick retiarius, the secutor was probably slow and plodding. Very much like a Roman soldier, the heavily armed secutor crouched behind his shield, his head protected by a helmet, his sword arm protected by the manica, and his forward shin protected by his greave. He advanced slowly but deliberately against his opponent. These tactics seem quite like those described by Livy of a Roman soldier in single combat. In Livy's famous description of T. Manlius' single combat with an enormous Gallic warrior, Manlius, easily evading the downward thrust of the Gaul, uses his shield to push aside the Gaul's shield, works his way in close, and with his sword point turned up stabs him with two quick thrusts into the belly and groin. Heavily armed gladiators like the secutor fought the same way that Roman soldiers did."
Edmondson, J. C., Keith, Alison Mary., Gibson Library Connections, Roman dress and the fabrics of Roman culture. Studies in Greek and Roman social history; I. Toronto/Buffalo: University of Toronto Press, 2010.
Here you have it: a Secutor gladiator type would wield a big Scutum shield and at the same time would be specifically described as "chaser" to the point his entire type name derivates from it, so apparently contrary to your genius hypothesis for a trained warrior a Scutum is not even a serious obstacle when they need to pursue a fleeing opponent (duh). Also according to historians Secutor battle tactics are the very same as of a Roman soldier one-on-one dueling tactics (and that includes a Scutum shield).

Apparently every time you try to go against me with walls of text you end up losing badly, so maybe next time you feel the urge to argue, think twice. Maybe use all that time and energy for something more constructive. Like mentally preparing yourself to shift into Ivy main for an entire month as soon as Setsuka trailer finally officially drops Kappa.
 
Klimat said:
Apparently every time you try to go against me with walls of text you end up losing badly, so maybe next time you feel the urge to argue, think twice. Maybe use all that time and energy for something more constructive.
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-good humor eye roll- I don't I think this is the victory you think it is (nothing you added above substantially changes the contours of the arguments, really) and if there's anybody here who cares about this besides the two of us (sort of), I'm happy to have my argument stand under scrutiny against yours. But I said I'd leave my substantive argument where it was in my last post, and I'll stick to that on this occasion.

Klimat said:
Maybe use all that time and energy for something more constructive.
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Pot, kettle, black, il mio amico. ;) Clearly we've both got a bit of cabin-fever-induced pedantry going on here.

Klimat said:
Like mentally preparing yourself to shift into Ivy main for an entire month as soon as Setsuka trailer finally officially drops Kappa.
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Haha, yes...well, as to that, I already saw the writing on the wall when the Setsuka/Hwang data "leak" became known, and I've actually already started practicing a little. In truth, I'm playing very little SC6 in recent months, but when I do, I give you my word I've already begun honoring the terms of our bet and begun maining Ivy at least 50% of the time...well, technically it's an Ivy CaS, but still.

Actually, it's not been the grind I was expecting it to be--I didn't really appreciate until I had to spend some time digging into the new iteration, but Ivy really is more fluid than ever in this entry. I mean, abstractly of course I was well aware of how much her style had evolved towards easier utilization over recent games, but the last time I put in any prolongued degree of effort with her was probably SCII, when she was still by far the techiest character in the roster--fuzzy memory notwithstanding, she feels like a completely different character to me now, in a manner that is making her less painful to learn again than I thought she would be.
 
Dissidia said:
there is a horror that lurks in comments of youtube. He is a demon who scares people away. He guards the comments of Hwang videos like a hawk.

Well actually he's just mentally ill and has an obsession with hwang.

View attachment 75824

lets capitalize every word and demand that the Xbox 260 (wtf?) and Xbox 360 have soulcalibur 6 on it for Hwang Sung Kyung (it's seong now right?)

I won't be showing more comments from this user, but its an example of the crazy you can find on youtube.
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Omg it's him!!! Yes that's Blake Napier. He's been doing that for years lmao!
 
Early concept art for Azwel in celebration of his birth!

https://twitter.com/x/status/1269282469536120832
EZ1ljxIU8AAjRAe (1).jpg



Man, that would've been great as a 2P costume!
 
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It's a nice design, but it looks way too anime for Calibur if you can believe that. It looks like it would fit in Blaze Blue or some other anime fighter.
 
sytus said:
The consensus here has long been agreed that Groh's design is too Ultra Instinct Anime for Calibur. Fortunately, Azwel dodged that bullet in the final release.
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Yeah, but then the too-anime-to-be-believed bullet turned out to be a magic bullet, did a u-turn and came back around with a vengeance in the form of that over-the-top villain shtick and unbelievably cornball voice acting. Besides, I wouldn't even say that Azwel particularly avoided the anime influence in his visual design--its just that we've really started to grade on the curve for the anime stuff in a post-Zwei, post-Groh franchise...
 
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Soul said:
https://twitter.com/x/status/1269282469536120832
View attachment 75835


Man, that would've been great as a 2P costume!
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The pose/facial demeanor doesn't capture Azwel's overly dramatic self-delusional messiah/maniacal thespian trait.
He looks like Tekken 7's Claudio's sterner younger cousin hiding a dark secret.
Archers of sirius I guess is sort of similar to the Aval organization. The creative team in namco's fighting department might share some of the same key members.
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Really appreciate the release of little tidbits like this. The potential 2p art might be held back for other characters to be potentially used in a future SC series with a larger budget (that actually has 2p outfits).

I hope there isn't a trend to only do 1p costumes with recolors going forward
 
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Anyone recognize the the artwork of the dual-sword wielder with the mug (top most picture)? Early concept of human cervantes ?
We have statue of liberty cassandra, 2p Sieg, and some Tira concepts underneath
draw01.jpg


The bottom artwork of all the SC2 newcomer, I wonder if there ever was a finished art (or at least something that isn't thumbnail sized)
draw02.jpg
 
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