Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread

DanteSC3

[14] Master
I still really like the idea that when Cassandra is released, adding Edge Master as an unlockable for where you've mastered all styles in Libra of Soul. I also think it's reasonable that Edge Master would not mimic Geralt, 2B, or Azwel. Maybe not even Grøh. This would also allow them to skimp on making a few unique weapon models, which helps his chances of inclusion, requiring less work.
 

Rusted Blade

[10] Knight
There was an interview last year (I think it was done by Kayane) where Okubo said that characters from SC4 or SC5 could be DLC.
Yes, but if you look at the context and the precise wording of what Okubo says in that interview, it becomes pretty apparent that he's doing the usual senior dev "I'm not going to rule anything out at this point and thereby paint myself into a corner, when I can instead answer vaguely that anything is possible moving forward" maneuver. While it's clear that the team could have easily decided to include anyone from SCIV and forward, so far everyone they have added to the game (minus the two guests and two new original characters) is a character that originated in the first four games of the franchise. The story fixates on the events covered in the first few games and (much as I think it's a pointless fixation) they really do seem to want to introduce only characters that can tied into the narrative directly (at least as regards non-guests). That interview came months before the game's release and everything we got once the game did drop, everything in the ongoing DLC support since, and everything hinted at by the codenames all suggests an objective of rounding out the early story and classic cast before moving on to anyone/anything that arose after SCIII.

Now, don't get me wrong, as I was just pointing out to someone above yesterday, if things go so profitably with the second season pass that they are actually encouraged to make a third (unlikely but by no means impossible), then clearly I think they would leap on the SCIV characters next--there'd just not be anyone more sales exploitable or narratively appropriate at that point, once they have exhausted the classic cast. Which may very well have been Okubo's thinking at the time, when he left the door open (though I doubt he could have known at that point that even the second season was going to be greenlit--and let's not forget it still hasn't officially been announced and they could still back off it if sales were not sufficient to justify it, which is almost certainly one of the reasons they decided to unofficially reveal it through the almost certainly staged "data leak"). In other words, he planned for all contingencies and said SCIV/SCV characters might return (even if they clashed with the plot and didn't get a Soul Chronicle) because he knew there was an outside chance Namco would go hard on the post release support/serialized content, as they had already begun to do with Tekken. But he also knew (as it was clearly his team's design, even at that point) that the planned content would focus on the classic era and characters first. Basically, I think whether we see Hilde and Algol depends entirely on how profitable the first two DLC seasons are.
 
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DanteSC3

[14] Master
Assuming that they do the second season of SoulCalibur VI like they did the second season of Tekken 7, and announce all six characters from the start, do you think that would help/hurt the sales? Sectus pointed out a while back that the six characters appear to be bundled in sets of two, much like Tekken did it. Anna and Lei came out in September, then Marduk and Armor King came out in December, and finally Julia and Negan came out in February. The likely pairings, in my opinion, would be Aeon and Hwang first, then Rock and Li Long, and finally Yun-seong and Setsuka. Alternatively, if you believe that Yell is Hilde and Star is a guest, it would also fit the pattern precedented by Tekken. Either way, I'd say it's better marketing than keeping it all secret until release.
 

Dissidia

Premium Member
I think they will try and release characters in pairs going forward. Tekken even made that joke with Negan threatening Harada due to releasing one character at a time.

The pair release strategy in theory allows more people to come back to the game for a longer period of time, as there are two new characters to learn at once rather than just one
 

Rusted Blade

[10] Knight
Assuming that they do the second season of SoulCalibur VI like they did the second season of Tekken 7, and announce all six characters from the start, do you think that would help/hurt the sales? Sectus pointed out a while back that the six characters appear to be bundled in sets of two, much like Tekken did it. Anna and Lei came out in September, then Marduk and Armor King came out in December, and finally Julia and Negan came out in February. The likely pairings, in my opinion, would be Aeon and Hwang first, then Rock and Li Long, and finally Yun-seong and Setsuka. Alternatively, if you believe that Yell is Hilde and Star is a guest, it would also fit the pattern precedented by Tekken. Either way, I'd say it's better marketing than keeping it all secret until release.
From your lips to the Namco marketing department's ears! I agree, this piecemeal release/announcement schedule is tedious. Presumably they have done their market research and have a good idea of which approach sustains more itnerest and generates more sales over the long run, but I have to say that my own strong preference would be to know what's coming earlier rather than later and that it only encourages my continued dedication to purchasing that content. Of course, who am I kidding? I'm buying it all regardless. And perhaps that's what they plan on: the hardcore players will buy most of the content whenever it is announced, whereas the sort-of dedicated consumers need to be kept on the line. I don't know. I do wish it was handled differently though.

Tekken even made that joke with Negan threatening Harada due to releasing one character at a time.
That was pretty fun. And kind of hilarious in a meta sense, since all of the rest of the voice work for Negan seems to have been repurposed recordings from The Walking Dead, but they had to have hired Jeffrey Dean Morgan to give those lines, which means they were really dedicated to getting that self-effacing joke in there.
 

Dissidia

Premium Member
Why are people so skeptical of a Season 3 of DLC? If Tekken and DBFZ get a season 3, SCVI getting one is just as likely.

Obviously we aren't at that point yet...but I feel a season 3 of tekken 7 is likely and it will trickle down to the other two big namco fighters
 

StarDragon

[03] Disciple
Edge Master returning as anything other than a pure mimic would be heresy.
Imo, a really neat thing to do with Edge Master (or Olcadan) would be giving him his own moveset that also includes the ability to mimic other characters by changing weapon mid round when the proper command is used (like UMK3's Shan Tsung). Balance issues could be avoided by giving style changes a decently high execution, making the character usable by anyone but outstanding in the hands of Soul Calibur masters.

However, mimics not being part of either T7 or SCVI makes me wonder if the devs haven't added them due to engine limitations or some other reason (disclaimer: I have no idea if there are more fighting games made in UE4, let alone if these have working mimics)
 

DanteSC3

[14] Master
Why are people so skeptical of a Season 3 of DLC? If Tekken and DBFZ get a season 3, SCVI getting one is just as likely.

Obviously we aren't at that point yet...but I feel a season 3 of tekken 7 is likely and it will trickle down to the other two big namco fighters
For me, it's simply because we don't have enough characters in SoulCalibur to justify it. Both Tekken and Dragon Ball have so many characters, they could keep releasing even a season four and even a season five if they wanted, but we just don't have that luxury in this franchise.

If what some of us believe is true (Stone, Yell, Star, Snow, Reptile, and Yellow are Rock, Li Long, Yun-seong, Setsuka, Aeon, and Hwang, respectively), then after season two is done, we would have every character from SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition. This means we would have every character from the beginning of SoulBlade until the end of SoulCalibur III's lifespan, and the only characters that we would have left would be Algol, Dampierre, and Hilde from SoulCalibur IV, followed by Viola and Z.W.E.I. from SoulCalibur V. I'm not counting the kids, because babies, especially unborn ones, can't fight.

If we supposed, for the sake of argument, that season three was Algol, Dampierre, Hilde, Viola, and Z.W.E.I., storyline continuity completely aside, then season three would then have less characters contained in it than season two. They could add a guest to pad out and make it six characters, sure, but going from three to six to five wouldn't look good, if we're only counting non-guest characters. Sure, we would have "everyone", but it just doesn't seem marketable to me to sell these last five characters. Especially when you consider that they would be better served in SoulCalibur VII, where they would have plot tie-ins and justification for appearances.

I'm aware that I left out Necrid, Edge Master, Charade, Olcadan, and Elysium from the discussion. Necrid is very unlikely to make a return, for several reasons, not the least of which being that they'd have to pay Todd McFarlane to use the character again, and the rest are mimics, and we've discussed already that selling us mimics would be a bad move all-around.

Imo, a really neat thing to do with Edge Master (or Olcadan) would be giving him his own moveset that also includes the ability to mimic other characters by changing weapon mid round when the proper command is used (like UMK3's Shan Tsung). Balance issues could be avoided by giving style changes a decently high execution, making the character usable by anyone but outstanding in the hands of Soul Calibur masters.

However, mimics not being part of either T7 or SCVI makes me wonder if the devs haven't added them due to engine limitations or some other reason (disclaimer: I have no idea if there are more fighting games made in UE4, let alone if these have working mimics)
This would make far more sense in the hands of Charade than Edge Master. Charade has history of being an amorphous being, with his eye laser form or just legs, even, so he could recombine his body to accommodate not only styles, but hitboxes. Like if you swapped to Astaroth, he would amass more body and actually become Astaroth's size, then if you swapped to Amy, he would lose significant mass and become Amy's size. That would be really cool.

I always did find Olcadan a bit out of place, though, just personally, because his mannerisms and cutscenes always made it seem like, to me anyway, he fought with his body's power, and that was greater than any weapon ever could be. It would seem like to me that he would be a hand-to-hand fist fighter more than anything else. But swapping styles and being a pure mimic is definitely Edge Master's thing, and I wouldn't budge on that, no matter what.
 
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StarDragon

[03] Disciple
This would make far more sense in the hands of Charade than Edge Master. Charade has history of being an amorphous being, with his eye laser form or just legs, even, so he could recombine his body to accommodate not only styles, but hitboxes. Like if you swapped to Astaroth, he would amass more body and actually become Astaroth's size, then if you swapped to Amy, he would lose significant mass and become Amy's size. That would be really cool.
I completely forgot about Charade since despite seeing him mentioned by the community, i didn't research it, and can't remember to have ever fought him in SCIII back in the days of PS2. I had thought of Edge Master or Olcadan just swapping weapons since they are mimics, but after reading about Charade i agree that the mentioned style would fit him better if the devs take the risk to develop it.

I always did find Olcadan a bit out of place, though, just personally, because his mannerisms and cutscenes always made it seem like, to me anyway, he fought with his body's power, and that was greater than any weapon ever could be. It would seem like to me that he would be a hand-to-hand fist fighter more than anything else.
I think that he was made that way mostly to give him a unique personality, however, i don't think that a hand-to-hand style is too much of a stretch in a game where Heihachi and Devil Jin have been guests at some point.

For me, it's simply because we don't have enough characters in SoulCalibur to justify it
They could always improve the story behind some minor characters, making the roster grow and enrichening the lore. I mean, if i ever saw Valeria as DLC the whole season would be an instant buy for me as a way to thank the devs for bringing grieve edge back, and she's just one of the shopkeepers who are also just 3 of the minor characters in SCIII, so there's a lot of room to work even before touching SCIV's timeline.
 
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Rusted Blade

[10] Knight
Why are people so skeptical of a Season 3 of DLC? If Tekken and DBFZ get a season 3, SCVI getting one is just as likely.

Obviously we aren't at that point yet...but I feel a season 3 of tekken 7 is likely and it will trickle down to the other two big namco fighters
Well, there hasn't been a third season of anything yet, and while it's not outside the realm of possibility, I would say its more unlikely than likely. For one thing, this kind of extended serialized content in this genre is uncharted territory; whether it will turn out to be truly profitable for an extended period of time after the base game's release is uncertain, at least until the consumers are primed to engage with it in those terms. For a certainty, consumer engagement is certain to drop precipitously at some point. It's likely Namco is carefully gauging sales and is likely to cut the post-release development loose at the point where their returns diminish too much. Indeed, if there is some ambiguity as to where that point is, they will certainly err on the side of caution in this respect.

Furthermore, Namco's internal studios share a great deal of staff, and sooner or later those senior devs and their teams are going to need be cycled back into new games; right now their fighter staff is stretched across multiple properties creating DLC content, but they won't be able to accommodate that, I would expect, past another year. Then that staff really need to be working on full new games. So time is a limiter too. Eventually I do think Namco wants DLC seasons to land somewhere near three for fighters as a standard thing, but I don't know that they are there yet. I think even they are trying to figure out that out right now, so nothing is certain, but I'd be surprised if there was a third season for any of their current fighters. Maybe Tekken, but probably not the other two. Then again, I'm surprised they are telegraphing a second season already, so here's to hoping they continue to surprise us!

If what some of us believe is true (Stone, Yell, Star, Snow, Reptile, and Yellow are Rock, Li Long, Yun-seong, Setsuka, Aeon, and Hwang, respectively), then after season two is done, we would have every character from SoulCalibur III: Arcade Edition. This means we would have every character from the beginning of SoulBlade until the end of SoulCalibur III's lifespan, and the only characters that we would have left would be Algol, Dampierre, and Hilde from SoulCalibur IV, followed by Viola and Z.W.E.I. from SoulCalibur V.
Well, I can tell you this much: there's no chance ZWEI is being considered and I'd be very surprised indeed to see Dampierre, but as for the others, they seem perfectly reasonable. If the codenamed six are the remaining SCIII and prior characters (and I think they are), then there's really no reason why Hilde, Algol and Viola couldn't composite the third season, with a guest in the fourth spot. The fact that we're getting six characters for the second season pass means there will almost certainly be no CaS packs. But if they got to a third season pass, I suspect they'd want to map closer to the first season rather than the second. I'd like to reiterate that I think such a third season is unlikely, but if it did happen, I think another 4 characters and two CaS packs would make more sense to them. Close out the SCIV cast (minus Dampierre), throw in Viola (it will feel a little early, but they did afterall lay the groundwork and if they can profit from it sooner rather than later, I think they will), add a guest and flesh out the CaS one substantial bit more... I mean, who could call it anything but the definitive Soul Calibur then, even with the lackluster stage selection and the mechanics being of mixed reception?

Necrid is very unlikely to make a return, for several reasons, not the least of which being that they'd have to pay Todd McFarlane to use the character again,
Actually, not necessarily. The credits for SCII make it clear that Namco actually owns the character rights for Necrid; McFarlane's production company merely owns the rights to the original art which MacFarlane provided as part of the agreement which got Spawn added in to SCII. Theoretically, Namco could almost certainly include Necrid in a future game, so long as they avoided using any of MacFarlane's 2D art assets. But I think they just don't even see enough value in Necrid to even justify tip-toeing around the license issues. He was never a popular character (actually, I think as a playstyle he is very underrated, but that's another conversation), and doesn't really fit well in the SC mythos (even as weird and varied as it is), and I believe that, by and large, Project Soul just thinks of him as a guest character and not someone that should be brought back.
 
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Rex Dart

[11] Champion
I still think they should bring back Necrid's shape-shifting weapon and use it as the basis for a single-player campaign. It would allow players to build their own custom movesets from the game's 2000+ individual moves. There's the potential for an insane amount of customization and replayability.
 

CaoCao

[03] Disciple
I still think they should bring back Necrid's shape-shifting weapon and use it as the basis for a single-player campaign. It would allow players to build their own custom movesets from the game's 2000+ individual moves. There's the potential for an insane amount of customization and replayability.
That sounds like something that would be exploited to all hell. It could work if it's exclusively single player though. Wonder how that would work.
 

Rex Dart

[11] Champion
Yeah, I did specify single-player.

Namco tried this with Combot in Tekken Tag Tournament 2. It was cool, but not very fleshed out. (Both because the mode was very short, but also because you were a robot without flesh. High humor in this post.)
 
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Macaulyn

[12] Conqueror
I think that Necrid and the option to customize movesets should be different things. First off, Necrid only needs polish and a a decent graphical improvement to be good in SC6, the idea of a character that uses moves from various others may not be done a lot, but its been done well before. One notable example I remember is Double, from Skullgirls, a character whose power is to transform into others, she was obviously made with the intent of sparing money, by using sprites from other characters, and ended up being a very good character, with a specific personality, role and, despite using other characters' attacks, a very unique playstyle. Its not impossible to do that, it only takes some effort.

The custom moveset thing could be done as well, I remember that Mortal Kombat Armageddon had that in its character creation, and while its certainly harder to make it with multiple weapons (in MKA you had two movesets for the custom character, a weaponless one and another with either a sword or a hammer/axe), I thought of two ways they could do that. The first idea is to restrict attacks for weapon types: for example, you can pick any sword (except greatswords) for your character and you get to pick moves from the sword users (Raphael, Xianghua, Amy), but not from other movesets. The second idea is much less restrictive: give the custom character a Necrid-like power or maybe an excuse for its weapon to morph, and give it access to any moves so the player can choose freely.

Also, always get the custom character banned in Online Ranked, for obvious reasons (I know a lot of people think there is no different between casual and ranked online play, but people should have the chance to show off their creations, otherwise, where is the fun? This type of restriction SHOULD be the difference between casual and ranked.
 

Dissidia

Premium Member
IF you’re asking for Necrid, you’ll be asking for the general idea of him. For whatever reason he’s been disowned by project soul
 

Rusted Blade

[10] Knight
IF you’re asking for Necrid, you’ll be asking for the general idea of him. For whatever reason he’s been disowned by project soul
Well, "disowned" implies an express declaration. I'd say it's more accurate that they have just decided to surround him with a cone of silence. It protbably does come down to licensing issues. The thing is, from all indications, Namco owns the rights to the character. But he may have come in as a contractual condition to the agreement that got Spawn into SCII:XBE. If that's the case, MacFarlane (or rather his production company as it is listed as the one with the rights to the Necrid art used in SCII--but not Necrid himself, an important distinction) may have reserved an interest in any future appearance of Necrid that way. There's just no way to know, being outside those companies. Or Namco's lawyers may have just said, "You know what, it's too close a call, these details weren't really clearly hammered out--don't chance it." and Necrid just became classified in their minds as a guest and treated that way ever since; i.e. you get your fifteen minutes in your one game and then you make room for the next guy...especially if you are the not altogether beloved Necrid.

Now, I personally think Necrid is really underrated. I'm not overly concerned with his John Carter of Mars aesthetic, and his moveset is actually kind of fun. But people have been misremembering some key details above when suggesting using him as the template for a "select your moveset" style of character--though, first off, that's actually a pretty imposing technical task to do right and not be buggy as hell, but we'll put that to the side for a moment. See, only a portion of Necrids moves were close analogs of other characters--rather, he mostly used the shape and profile of the weapons of other characters in his own unique ways, although often part of a sequence of animation and hitboxing were identical to a sequence of frames for another character's move. But he was a largely independently designed style, which I think probably is what naturally happens when you set out to make a mixed-mimic character: you suddenly find yourself putting a spin on everything (often literally in this case!) and you also find you have to adjust things for the sake of balance. He also has huge number of acrobatic moves that are his alone and not related to other characters.

Now as for a player design custom moveset editor, I mean shit, I'd be all for it if it was confined to offline or at least non-ranked, maybe even a subset of player matches. But it can't be overstated how buggy and broken the final product of these custom move combinations would be. There'd just be no way you could control for every frame advantage trap and infinite combo players could construct with full leverage of the archive of movesets. That's, again, putting aside the challenges of making the editor. But were they to do it, I would argue that Necrid, being (whatever else you can say about him) his own unique thing, he is not the ideal cosmetic figure to stick on top of that. I would suggest, first and foremost that maybe this role would be a good fit for a rebranded Olcadan. Who, in all the talk about classic era characters, seems to often go forgotten. And as he is essentially a redundancy on Edge Master as a gameplay matter, he makes most sense, and would not require the a crude insertion of one of the existing "my weapons appear out of nowhere" characters (Necrid, Algol, Azwell) into the role. But the thing is, probably mostly people would prefer to use this with their creations, to create something truly unique and fitting the look and design of that character. All things considered though, I don't think I would count on seeing such an experiment in Soul Calibur any time soon.
 
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