Soulcalibur VI DLC Discussion Thread

TresDias

[04] Fighter
This is something they absolutely should have planned to do two years ago, but I'm afraid that ship has long sailed now; I just don't see a licensing agreement for Noctis in a second Namco fighter coming about, and now we have Azwel, the knock-off Noctis (Nocoftis?). I am close to 100% certaint hat Azwel came about because Project soul's senior devs were frustrated that a character like Noctis was actually licensed for use by Namco, and then stuck into the fighter that, by far, least suited him. He would have been such a good fit for Soulcalibur and would have made an awesome trio with 2B and Geralt. So Project Soul got jealous and made a variation on the theme, but had to make their character substantially different enough not to make the transplant -too- obvious. Unfortunately, the result was Azwel, who looks like a former 1950's stage magician now better known as a registered sex offender, with an English voice actor who emotes like he thinks he is a principal actor in the filming of the original Wizard of Oz. I mean, honestly, there have been some missteps in original character designs in the last few games, but has a goofier, lamer character ever been produced by this series? Oh yeah...Groh. And Z..W..E..I.. (I added extra punctuation to demonstrate his name literally can't get more stupid).

Anyway, I got off on a tangent there. Long-story short, not only do I not see Namco buying the rights to Noctis twice, but putting him in Soulcalibur VI alongside Azwel would A) make it pretty obvious that PS decided to take a second bite at that apple already without paying said fees, and B) Hilight what a mediocre job they did when riffing on that theme. In other words, too sticky a situation / nevah gonna happen.
Fair points, sadly enough.

Now that you shine a light on it like that, it does seem obvious. You're probably right about Azwel's power set being lifted from Noct. For that matter, Azwel's showy gestures and speech mannerisms are highly reminiscent of Ardyn, also from FFXV -- and also an owner of the power to conjure weapons, Ardyn's power signature being red while Noct's is blue ...
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
Fair points, sadly enough.

Now that you shine a light on it like that, it does seem obvious. You're probably right about Azwel's power set being lifted from Noct. For that matter, Azwel's showy gestures and speech mannerisms are highly reminiscent of Ardyn, also from FFXV -- and also an owner of the power to conjure weapons, Ardyn's power signature being red while Noct's is blue ...
Oh, I didn't realize there were other characters like Noctis in that world with the same abilities, though I always got the impression that his female counterpart (Stella?) had something similar going on. As you can probably tell, I still haven't played FFXV; back in the day when my life/the demands on my time were a little more relaxed, I played all of the mainline entries in the series--from the original release of the first game up until around FFXI, when the quality of the games precipitously fell off (though I did actually enjoy FFXII, the last one I played through, in many respects). Up until that point, I played them all, even if I came to some of them a few years after their release, but by that point the quality had declined and around the same time it developed that I had time for only a handful of games, so they always have to be good if they were long-form story-centric games. When FFXV (still known as FFXIII Versus at the time) revealed its first trailer and it was known that Tetsuya Nomura was directing, I was pretty psyched about the direction that the animation, particularly the fight animation, was going to take, and Noctis' introduction was a big part of it. It really seemed that the game was likely to rejuvenate the franchise.

However, the game slogged in development hell year after year after year, and I became more busier still. Finally it was released, and though it looks like an alright package, I got the feeling it didn't quite live up to expectations after Nomura left. I was also left a little disappointed that the game has only four main protagonists who were all a group of bros that look like they could be models for Axe body spray, when one of the appeals of the franchise for me was always that the games had rich and large casts composed of varied and interesting characters. Between time constraints and the lackluster launch, I never got around to playing it, though I will say that, at a minimum, it still looks like maybe it is the best Final fantasy game in a decade or more (bearing in mind that, aside from a few moments trialing a game here and there, the last one I played that wasn't a remake was released in 2006!). Want to make a pitch for it being worth the time investment?
 
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TresDias

[04] Fighter
@Rusted Blade
Well, it's my favorite of the series, and I've been playing them usually right as each new one comes out since FFVII came along in 1997. I've also played the first six and a good number of the spin-offs.

There is a lot to love about FFXV, though there's undoubtedly a lot that could have been executed better.

The open-world exploration is a joy most of the time, but it comes with some annoyances as well in falling into the usual traps open-world games do (e g. series of fetch quests that don't have immediate relevance).

The magic system is largely superfluous, but combat overall is wonderful. It takes some getting used to, but becomes a lot of fun once you familiarize yourself.

The plot is excellent but isn't presented in the most easily digestible fashion. There's the CG prologue movie "Kingsglaive" (required viewing); the anime prologue "Brotherhood" (definitely a good idea to watch this too, but not as vital); a short text-only prologue (can be skipped, but it's so short, there's no reason to); the main game itself; and multiple DLC set before and throughout the main game (though most carry the expectation that you've already finished the main game before playing them).

Even as you play, much of the world-building, characterization, and even more than a few critical plot points require you, as the player, to really delve into the world and experience it. Talk to people. Do side-quests (even the fetchy ones). Read newspapers. Listen to radio broadcasts.

However, should you actually do all this, and take your time rather than proceed from one plot hot spot to the next, you get a cumulative experience of some of the best characterization this series has ever seen; and what is unquestionably the closest, most convincing team dynamics and sense of ... well, brotherhood (like in the anime prologue's title lol) ... that the series has ever offered.

It's definitely a great game, but one with inarguable flaws every bit as much as virtues. It's just that it's a product truly better than the sum of its parts.

EDIT: Oh, and the English voice acting is fucking amazing.
 
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Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
@Rusted Blade
Well, it's my favorite of the series, and I've been playing them usually right as each new one comes out since FFVII came along in 1997. I've also played the first six and a good number of the spin-offs.

There is a lot to love about FFXV, though there's undoubtedly a lot that could have been executed better.

The open world exploration is a joy most of the time, but it comes with some annoyances as well in falling into the usual traps open world games do (e g. series of fetch quests that don't have immediate relevance).

The magic system is largely superfluous, but combat overall is wonderful. It takes some getting used to, but becomes a lot of fun once you familiarize yourself.

The plot is excellent but isn't presented in the most easily digestible fashion. There's the CG prologue movie "Kingsglaive" (required viewing); the anime prologue "Brotherhood" (definitely a good idea to watch this too, but not as vital); a short text-only prologue (can be skipped, but it's so short, there's no reason to); the main game itself; and multiple DLC set before and throughout the main game (though most carry the expectation that you've already finished the main game before playing them).

Even as you play, much of the world-building, characterization, and even more than a few critical plot points require you, as the player, to really delve into the world and experience it. Talk to people. Do side-quests (even the fetchy ones). Read newspapers. Listen to radio broadcasts.

However, should you actually do all this, and take your time rather than proceed from one plot hot spot to the next, you get a cumulative experience of some of the best characterization this series has ever seen; and what is unquestionably the closest, most convincing team dynamics and sense of ... well, brotherhood (like in the anime prologue's title lol) ... that the series has ever offered.

It's definitely a great game, but one with inarguable flaws every bit as much as virtues. It's just that it's a product truly better than the sum of its parts.
That's some well-worded advocacy. I definitely have no issue with meticulously exploring an open world game--actually, my typical approach to such games is usually to max out every available side-quest and objective (no matter how many hundred of them there are, spread out throughout the world) before doing the next available main story quest, a remnant of my completionist tendencies from back when I was a more voracious gamer. By the same token, I absolutely know what you mean when you reference the tedium/padding that this can sometimes engender in a game; I can see how that kind of formula could be particularly in tension with a Final Fantasy game and it's traditional focus on the trials of the main cast. Though at the same time, arguably square was always a bit ahead of the curve in this regard, having the original iterations on open worlds filled with NPCs with something to say. In any event, it's good to hear that they've threaded the needle pretty well on those elements and that the world feels cohesive and that the small interactions feel relevant and not like filler.

In a similar vein, I ended up liking FFXII quite a bit, but it also was a departure from the traditional formula; that story is enjoyable, but you have to give up very early on expecting it to play out like a typical Final Fantasy game: the focus is on the world and the toll of the war, not upon the principle cast. Those protagonists are all likeable enough (Balthier and Fran in particular are charming as all get-out), but other than Ash, they aren't given the typical FF sob-fest backstories and you just kind of root for them because they are good people trying to do the right thing, not because you are particularly emotionally invested in what they've been through; again, it's more that the world around them feels sincere and lived-in and you feel like the stakes are very high for their success. It sounds though as if FFXV made an attempt to fuse the best of both approaches together, with some success, by your description.

I've heard about the multi-media aspect of the story and its incredibly confusing to me that they chose to tell the story in that way without really adequately preparing their audience, but anyway, I'll follow your proscribed approach to the material. I have to say, and maybe it sounds a bit nitpicky, but I'm a little put off by the boy band aspect of the playable characters: having strong female leads since pretty much as soon as the stories in the franchise began to get nuanced (FFIV) was always a big selling point for me. I understand that Noctis and his three friends are meant to be a unit of exceptionally close friends, forged into a family by circumstance, so I'll give it the benefit of the doubt that this sausage fest is in service to a greater narrative end, but I know there's going to be moments driving around in that car where I'm going to be saying "Good lord, please throw anyone into their path right now who is not another twenty-something bro--this is like Final Fantasy meets Entourage!".

I do think I'll enjoy the combat system from what I've seen, and the CGI. I'm a big fan of martial arts epics and any kind of art that explores the human body in motion, including in film making. One of my favourite young artists of recent decades was Monty Oum, who tragically died quite young a few years back. As an animator, Monty found a way to combine elements of traditional wuxia and Hong Kong action fair with the kind of fantasy/sci-fi action that he had observed in anime and (most centrally, I think) the in-game and cutscene animations from his contemporaries working in the games industry--there are particularly obvious influences in his work from franchises like Final Fantasy, Dead or Alive and yes, especially Soulcalibur. He just had a natural gift for telling a story through fight sequences that had natural rythym and flow, that kept the heart pumping and the mind and soul engaged.

Other than the Avatar:The Last Airbender/Legend of Korra team and a few select works of animation out of Japan, I don't think anyone has yet caught up to him for creating visual poetry in motion with a fight sequence in animation. Virtually every fight scene that Marvel Studios has produced feels flat to me, because its obviously trying to reproduce the same kind of feeling and flair, but has never captured the same level of style and ingenuity. I don't know how much of that is that it requires a unique genius and how much it is their focusing too much on the adolescent power fantasies those characters represent, but it just feels clumsy by comparison. Monty ended up at Rooster Teeth where injected action sequences into Red vs. Blue for the first time, before spearheading the first couple seasons of his own show that many will be familiar with, RWBY, before his unexpected death. Anyway, the point of this diatribe/sidetrack within a sidetrack, is that there is something decidedly Monty Oum-ish about FFXV's approach to action, particularly in its trailers and what I've seen of the cut-scenes; Noctis would have looked quite at home in Dead Fantasy, had it continued beyond where Monty left it. That alone is reason to give FFXV a try, I suppose.

Anyway, thanks for the info--I'll give the game a crack as soon as I can find time for such an undertaking (presently looking to be 2025, but we'll see!) [/SPOLIER]
 
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Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
If Yellow means Yoshitora Tokugawa ???
View attachment 62984
On what basis? That his outfit happens to feature yellow prominently? I mean, if that were the criteria I would expect Law from Tekken first! :) No, it just seems pretty unlikely to me. Besides, Samurai Showdown's devs have only just recently been humorously dropping fishing hints that they'd like to hear (future tense) from "Okubo-san" about the prospect of lending eachother IP, whereas the six codenames were "leaked" about, what, five or six months back now? So the timing doesn't remotely align either. But most persuasively, we already have a character whose name literally translates to "Yellow" in the classic Soul Calibur cast, a character who features pretty prominently in the narrative being rebooted for this game, who has even already appeared in story content and art assets in the base game. I'm going with Occam's Razor on this one.
 
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Heniek

[10] Knight
Not to mention that this character wouldn't bring anything to the table. We already have a samurai, we have characters using few weapons in their kit, we already have plenty characters from far east. Also on the sodenotr - who the fugg is he?
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
This alliance between SC and SS smells a 3rd guest, or someone from Soulcalibur will appear on the SS.

I think you have already answered the question yourself Kappa
I hope something will eventually come of the discourse, but I think it's pretty clear that they haven't (or at least hadn't as of the last time they commented on the topic) had any kind of formal discussion about IP; just a little social media flirtation--and even that has been one-sided so far. We saw one comment on Twitter from a SS dev who, while responding to a third party, name dropped Okubo and floated the idea of some collaboration. Actually negotiating a licensing agreement for a character is a pretty exhaustive process that has to clear multiple internal hurdles in companies like this with complicated promotional and legal processes--there's just no way that in the last week they went from that one twitter message to someone guest featuring. Even if they had, it wouldn't be 'Yellow' as whoever that character is has been planned for half a year at a minimum--well in advance of said twitter message. And Yellow is almost certainly Hwang in any event.

All of which I would not want to be mistaken for being indication that I don't want such a guest character. I think it would be cool to see someone from SS. I do kind of think the pool of characters from SS '19 that would work with this particular game is kind of small though. Personally, I think for season 2 we're getting the six characters that will reconstitute the classic roster from the original trilogy of (post-SE) games, but I hope more content (characters included) will follow that, and they could release five more guests from as many franchises and I'd buy them all. Of course I would buy any returning character too, or even any new originals--though I've all but given up on PS truly nailing one of those ever again!
 

Heniek

[10] Knight
We already have a greek warrior with S&S, butt... :sc4cas1:
The difference is that one of those is a series staple for over a decade and second one is an idea for a guest so...
Tho I still wish they would give her a warhammer shield combo
 

AJMx94

[04] Fighter
I'm trying to see which Samurai Shodown guest would fit into the codes, the more likely it would be "star". I just hope it's not Haohmaru or Nakoruru. Tokugawa was already the protagonist, so it would be a good choice, I did not put Ukyo because he would be practically similar to Setsuka.
 
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Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
I'm inclined to agree with Heniek: I have a hard time imagining most of the Samurai Showdown characters in this game, because in either moveset or look, they are reminiscent of either Mitsurugi or Arthur (who I actually think is ripe for a return himself, if they are going to throw another samurai archetype into the game). I spent some time the other day looking at videos of the current SS roster and I can't say any of long-haired samurai types looks like they would bring something unique enough to warrant the porting, and other characters look like far to similar to Yoshimitsu, Taki, or Amy. Which begs the question, who else could they use? Some characters like Earthquake and Nakoruru are just too cartoonish in design to translate well into Soulcalibur (but let's be honest, whichever character they chose, there would be a bit of an aesthetic disconnect if they have conform a SS character a little more towards Soulcalibur style of models). Darli Dagger is maybe an option, being a hot new item and the current Soulcalibur team loving those over-the-top gimmicky weapons.

But personally, the character I think would translate best to Soulcalibur, and whom I think probably just deserves the spot on numerous levels, is Shiki. I'd pay ten bucks for that character, easy.
 
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SSfox

[14] Master
It's confirmed Bandai Namco are editing a game named "Elden Ring" made by Fromsoftware in collaboration with George RR Martin

A closer step to see a GOT character in SC6, or not Kappa

Beside i'm super excited about this game, love everything FS does since i played my first game of theirs aka Demon's Soul one of the most master piece game ever made imo
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
It's confirmed Bandai Namco are editing a game named "Elden Ring" made by Fromsoftware in collaboration with George RR Martin

A closer step to see a GOT character in SC6, or not Kappa

Beside i'm super excited about this game, love everything FS does since i played my first game of theirs aka Demon's Soul one of the most master piece game ever made imo
I'd be lying if I said the same thought hadn't occurred to me. But there are two factors that argue strongly against this ever happening: 1) If this game is just entering development, it's likely to be a good long while before it is released, let alone before any of its characters have any chance at getting brand exposure (if indeed that happens at all--we are talking about a Telltale game after-all, and they aren't usually barnstormers even when based on already popular franchises, let alone new IP), so the timing is not really right, if we assume that SCVI will be ramping its DLC down in a year, at the latest. And 2) George R.R. Martin stories tend to be rooted in some degree of grim realism--and again, we're talking about a Telltale game, probably in a mode similar to their previous GoT games. In other words, the characters won't be the type to shrug off a sword through the head and may be a poor fit for a SC cameo. On the other hand, they've side-stepped this issue with other guests in the past.

But yeah, I definitely thought about the possibility--then again, I was surfing this forum when i saw news of the leaks, so I guess I was a little primed to think of it. :)
 
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Macaulyn

[12] Conqueror
Yeah, but Negan was added to Tekken 7, remember? In fact, I'm pretty sure the only reason that the whole discussion about a GoT character being a possibility in Soul Calibur was because if a fighter with no technique or finesse whatsoever like Negan could be added to Tekken, then, most certainly a warrior or whatever weird character that GoT could offer was a possible addition to Soul Calibur. And now that we know that Namco has an association with FromSoftware and George R. R. Martin, I'd say that rumor is closer to being true than ever. Sure, its not a 100% confirmation, and there is actually a really good possibility that it won't happen, but ruling it out would be completely stupid.
 

Rusted Blade

[08] Mercenary
Yeah, but Negan was added to Tekken 7, remember?
Yeah, and I'd agree that of all the guests who have apepared in Namco first party fighters, he's the one that shows how far Namco is willing to stretch itself to make someone fit, but let's be clear that these situations are not at all similar with regard to the IP, the parties, or feasibility/likelihood of a character transplant as either business or aesthetic matter. Neegan, at the end of the day, comes from a comic book (though the character image for Tekken is stylized closer to his television appearance): he fits pretty well from the start with the cartoony/over-the-top-villian violence of the Tekken franchise. Or at least Neegan fits much better with the style of Tekken's action than any GoT character ever would with Soul Calibur, since GoT characters come from a world where, if you're getting weapons stuck through you, you better have one of those especially powerful red priests in your corner, if you want to see the next day; Soul Calibur character are expected to take 50-100 sword strokes through the vital organs per match, and then pick themselves up without even being winded.

You may note that there is one GoT character who actually does more or less fit those aesthetic demands who may therefore, in theory, represent the best bet for a SC cameo: Undead Gregor Clegane. But it's still not going to happen, because, at the end of the day, the biggest road block here is not the style contrast, it's the fact that GoT is the hottest IP on planet earth right now and under the control of at least a half dozen entities that are going to have some say over any licensed content coming out the show--and all of them are going to have reasons to be cautious about diluting the brand with silly cameos in anime-fantasy sword fighting games.

In order to get Neegan, Namco had to license a character from Robert Kirkland and maybe AMC, with some image rights royalties possibly going to Henry Dean Morgan--all for a kinda-sorta well known character from a show that was a minor hit six years ago or more. Compare that against trying secure a license from George R.R. Martin and HBO for the rights to a character from the biggest television phenomenon of the last decade. If those parties wanted to cash in on a series of games that were flashy fun, they would have done so already; developers and publishers would have been lining up out the door for the last eight years to work with them on anything that the brand could have been slapped on. Instead, the licensed games so far have been in TellTale style narrative games and strategy games--none of which are hot sellers, but those formats better fit the expectations of the tone of the world that GoT/ASoIaF take place in.

TLDR: I don't see Martin greenlighting an appearance of Jon Snow in a game where he fights ninjas and androids, and even if he was (against all odds and indications) willing to, insofar as the versions of those characters are based on the show's variants, that brings in all kinds of other players.

And it's not like this Elden Ring announcement suggests some kind of cozy relationship between Martin and Namco; FromSfotware (a third party studio) has contracted Martin as a "consultant" for Elden Ring, meaning he's an employee (a consultancy almost certainly means Martin will not be retaining any character rights relating to his work with the company developing the world for this game, and that such characters will not be based off of concepts from Martin's pre-existing works, which would need to be licensed). Basically FromSoftware is purchasing the right to stick Martin's name on the product just on the hope that it will boost the profile of the product--that's valuable to them regardless of how much or how little Martin actually ends up contributing to the world-building of the game. That same developer, as a company, has entered into a contract with Namco to publish that game, in substantially the same way any third party developer and publisher do. There's absolutely zero indication here of any kind of working relationship between Martin and Namco, nor any direct contractual connection. So there's not really even a tiny bit more reason to expect a GoT character to show up in a SC game now than there was before Elden Ring was known about.

Sure, its not a 100% confirmation
I mean, it's not even remotely anything like a confirmation, to be blunt. Also, there was a never a "rumor" (that I heard anyway) that a GoT character was in development or being negotiated for; just random speculation here (and maybe on other forums for all I know) that such a character would be (in the view of some) "cool". I don't think such a character would ever be considered for, or work with, SC (Zombie Clegane would be interesting I suppose, but difficult to make work as something that didn't step on Nightmare and Astaroth's toes), but regardless, we've never had any kind of indication that such a thing was in the works or even being discussed between interested parties.
 
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