Talim is almost as bad as SC4 ver.

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thinkingofaname

[09] Warrior
Been playing nothing but Talim since the beta, not impressed in the least. This version is extremely punishing vs short ranged char (again) and Talim has 0 tools to put real pressure. All her low options are gone, I couldn't find 11KA, and 6B+K A leads to nothing?? All of her wind stance attack are still unsafe as hell. She has 0 good mid, she needs a safe launch + good damage with good knockback to keep people from just brain dead back dashing vs her. So far her launcher is unsafe as hell (Talim is unsafe in general) AND all her mids are CH only, and they themselves are unsafe (or free mixup for your opponent) if you couldn't fish it.

Her AA6B variant can't seem to land even on CH?? Only lows are 1b and 1k, both are barely better than just 2K and both easily back-stepped. You can easily win against causal new players who don't know what guard button is. However against anybody with a brain who just back dash and block, sticking only to safe moves, you feel like you are fighting your own character and have to land x2 reads to win.

Only thing I can impressed is the B+K B, very good RO (but the only one she has). However trying to set one up almost impossible since its so telegraphed. Unless people find some way to go into B+K directly after transition (no movement), I really don't see how that gonna get anyone past the first month.

I honestly don't know why is it so hard to just copy SC2 Talim and work from there. Or at the very least work with SC4BD talim (who can do around 60 dmg from aa). Like what's the point of the current talim? Unsafe, bad lows, shortest range in the game, extremely limited tools vs back step / range.
 
Idk I thought she felt great. It's the first day of beta we have zero none latency frame data and barely know two thirds of her inputs. People are jumping the gun I think.

236 b ce is dummmb damage.
 
Been playing nothing but Talim since the beta, not impressed in the least. This version is extremely punishing vs short ranged char (again) and Talim has 0 tools to put real pressure. All her low options are gone, I couldn't find 11KA, and 6B+K A leads to nothing?? All of her wind stance attack are still unsafe as hell. She has 0 good mid, she needs a safe launch + good damage with good knockback to keep people from just brain dead back dashing vs her. So far her launcher is unsafe as hell (Talim is unsafe in general) AND all her mids are CH only, and they themselves are unsafe (or free mixup for your opponent) if you couldn't fish it.

Her AA6B variant can't seem to land even on CH?? Only lows are 1b and 1k, both are barely better than just 2K and both easily back-stepped. You can easily win against causal new players who don't know what guard button is. However against anybody with a brain who just back dash and block, sticking only to safe moves, you feel like you are fighting your own character and have to land x2 reads to win.

Only thing I can impressed is the B+K B, very good RO (but the only one she has). However trying to set one up almost impossible since its so telegraphed. Unless people find some way to go into B+K directly after transition (no movement), I really don't see how that gonna get anyone past the first month.

I honestly don't know why is it so hard to just copy SC2 Talim and work from there. Or at the very least work with SC4BD talim (who can do around 60 dmg from aa). Like what's the point of the current talim? Unsafe, bad lows, shortest range in the game, extremely limited tools vs back step / range.
Well for one, SC2 Talim isn't even the same character anymore. To go back to that would be basically removing all sense of stance play, and just make her into a run-in BB/AA rushdown based one dimensional character. Cool if you want that, but there's already characters that fit that mold.

The other thing, is do we know exactly what's safe and what isn't? I see her RO game is in fact nerfed heavily from SC4, so that much I can agree with to an extent. If you want to CH fish with AA, you want A,A,A+B instead. AA6b was never a combo unless you land it mid stun. (like a wall combo or something.)

And yes, chasing backstep isn't fun, ever. I'd have to test to make sure her power mids are ALL unsafe. I get the feeling some moves may have flown under the radar since it's only been a day so far.

She has a ton of mobility now though. In time it'll be hard to pin down Talim players who have a life lead and full control of her stance play in Wind Fury/Air Rage. I'd say give it a bit of time, (as cliche as that is), and at least see what people come up with in the next few days. And who's to say they won't make any changes to her before release day?
 
To go back to that would be basically removing all sense of stance play, and just make her into a run-in BB/AA rushdown based one dimensional character. Cool if you want that, but there's already characters that fit that mold.
MANY OF THE CHARACTERS' GENERIC AA/BB SERIES ARE LITERALLY RESTRICTED TO AA/BB. IN THIS ASPECT SC2 TALIM CAN'T BE ONE DIMENSIONAL SINCE THE OPPONENT NEEDS TO CONSIDER HOW TO ALSO MANAGE AAB, BBA/BBK, AA2/BB2.

THE OLD AND NEW TALIM DESIGNS COULD POSSIBLY BE MORE BLENDED TOGETHER WITHOUT GETTING TOO CRAZY, WHO KNOWS.
 
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They will only make changes to her if people say something, this may very well be the last SC if they don't put their 200% into the game.

Things get a lot worse for Talim in the new system.

1. Throws are heavily nerfed due to GI changes. Talim with her unsafe moves, throws were big part of her damage.
2. Worst super in the game. Longest start up time, lose to every other super and basic AA/BB. Lowest damage (but recover less than 1 aa damage, bad but at least its something), send opponent further than any other super, and doesn't RO. Do this to the shortest ranged character in the game, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
3. Soul charge now push back with iframe, so when you outplay your opponent and finally get in range to play, they soul charge with 0 risk and you are back to square one. The universal push back is EXTREMELY BAD for short range character with no long range threat like Talim.
4. All her aGI in stance are gone, idk if B+K is suppose to have any aGI property because they just lose to everything for me. They opponent can just free CH whenever you are in stance if advantage or just back dash if disadvantage.
5. Invincible Super + aGI super means rush down character like Talim just eat them for free. Longer ranged character can just play at tip range if expecting a reversal super and most of them will whiff + launch punish. Talim has 0 tools except hard reads.

Playing safe with hp advantage at long range absolutely do not work. There are mid screen lows now, as well as heavy and safe (vs talim) tracking mids. Even if you play perfectly, your gonna get your guard crushed. You need to be in threat range at all times (point blank for talim) or they just get free picks at your defense with 0 risk.

AA6BA is a combo in SC4BD, you get guaranted 6B+K ->A+B after with knockdown. I have 0 clue why it is not in 6, it is the only did right with new Talim and now they take it away.

I honestly don't know what Talim suppose to be. Short range character need real pressure tool to keep opponents from just running away, she has none. As a stance dancing character all her stance are unsafe, and massively nerfed lows. As a pressure character she has 0 mixup, if they gonna have a unbreakable throw, Talim should be the one to have it, not Ivy.

The only thing that associate with Talim is "gimmicks". If people have 0 clue about your stance and when you are at disadvantage and how many of your attacks are highs, you get very good results. Against anyone that actually plays SC, you fight your own character more than the opponent.

Oh, you know when a move is unsafe when you get stabbed/AAed while holding guard. Its not some rocket science.
 
MANY OF THE CHARACTERS' GENERIC AA/BB SERIES ARE LITERALLY RESTRICTED TO AA/BB. IN THIS ASPECT SC2 TALIM CAN'T BE ONE DIMENSIONAL SINCE THE OPPONENT NEEDS TO CONSIDER HOW TO ALSO MANAGE AAB, BBA/BBK, AA2/BB2.

THE OLD AND NEW TALIM DESIGNS COULD POSSIBLY BE MORE BLENDED TOGETHER WITHOUT GETTING TOO CRAZY, WHO KNOWS.
That would just make her Taki then. I find SC2 Talim to be boring as fuck even though she was decent. Honestly, if she's suffering in any way, strings are the least of her issues, lol


They will only make changes to her if people say something, this may very well be the last SC if they don't put their 200% into the game.

Things get a lot worse for Talim in the new system.

1. Throws are heavily nerfed due to GI changes. Talim with her unsafe moves, throws were big part of her damage.
2. Worst super in the game. Longest start up time, lose to every other super and basic AA/BB. Lowest damage (but recover less than 1 aa damage, bad but at least its something), send opponent further than any other super, and doesn't RO. Do this to the shortest ranged character in the game, ARE YOU KIDDING ME?
3. Soul charge now push back with iframe, so when you outplay your opponent and finally get in range to play, they soul charge with 0 risk and you are back to square one. The universal push back is EXTREMELY BAD for short range character with no long range threat like Talim.
4. All her aGI in stance are gone, idk if B+K is suppose to have any aGI property because they just lose to everything for me. They opponent can just free CH whenever you are in stance if advantage or just back dash if disadvantage.
5. Invincible Super + aGI super means rush down character like Talim just eat them for free. Longer ranged character can just play at tip range if expecting a reversal super and most of them will whiff + launch punish. Talim has 0 tools except hard reads.

Playing safe with hp advantage at long range absolutely do not work. There are mid screen lows now, as well as heavy and safe (vs talim) tracking mids. Even if you play perfectly, your gonna get your guard crushed. You need to be in threat range at all times (point blank for talim) or they just get free picks at your defense with 0 risk.

AA6BA is a combo in SC4BD, you get guaranted 6B+K ->A+B after with knockdown. I have 0 clue why it is not in 6, it is the only did right with new Talim and now they take it away.

I honestly don't know what Talim suppose to be. Short range character need real pressure tool to keep opponents from just running away, she has none. As a stance dancing character all her stance are unsafe, and massively nerfed lows. As a pressure character she has 0 mixup, if they gonna have a unbreakable throw, Talim should be the one to have it, not Ivy.

The only thing that associate with Talim is "gimmicks". If people have 0 clue about your stance and when you are at disadvantage and how many of your attacks are highs, you get very good results. Against anyone that actually plays SC, you fight your own character more than the opponent.

Oh, you know when a move is unsafe when you get stabbed/AAed while holding guard. Its not some rocket science.
As far as the safe/unsafe thing, I was mainly referring to stance transitioning changing the ability to punish certain moves.

But fair enough. You may in fact be 100% right about her. I do miss her 11KA plus on hit low and 44B power mid too. I just would just like to see for myself what could be discovered is all.
 
You would think that the movement within the wind stance would not be painfully slow. Even if you move backwards from the stance incredibly early, you will get caught very often.
 
You would think that the movement within the wind stance would not be painfully slow. Even if you move backwards from the stance incredibly early, you will get caught very often.
Sorry to say, but if that's the case you're not using it right. Either you need to space it better or have to use a different transition on block.
 
My experience with Talim wasn't very good, however I chalked it up to not knowing the character well enough because I fought a few talims beforehand that absolutely wrecked me.
 
Sorry to say, but if that's the case you're not using it right. Either you need to space it better or have to use a different transition on block.
I can agree 100% about the spacing. And I consider my level currently at a complete amateur, so I know I am lacking. Can you elaborate on what you mean by different transition on block?
 
I can agree 100% about the spacing. And I consider my level currently at a complete amateur, so I know I am lacking. Can you elaborate on what you mean by different transition on block?
certain moves or strings can go into her stances by pressing the correct direction.
Like 22A for example can go into the sidespin by pressing 22A2 or 22A8 (up or down basically). Or you can do 22A6 for the forward flip and 22A4 for the backwards leap.

But some transitions are quicker than others based on recovery frames. We don't have all the data yet, but some moves allow you to cancel into stance faster.
 
certain moves or strings can go into her stances by pressing the correct direction.
Like 22A for example can go into the sidespin by pressing 22A2 or 22A8 (up or down basically). Or you can do 22A6 for the forward flip and 22A4 for the backwards leap.

But some transitions are quicker than others based on recovery frames. We don't have all the data yet, but some moves allow you to cancel into stance faster.
Is there a way to transition into the front forward flipping attack instead of the front forward leap?
 
Well for one, SC2 Talim isn't even the same character anymore. To go back to that would be basically removing all sense of stance play, and just make her into a run-in BB/AA rushdown based one dimensional character. Cool if you want that, but there's already characters that fit that mold.

did you play sc2 talim?
 
did you play sc2 talim?
ZeroEffect was probably the best SC4 Talim in America... I don't think he played SC2.

I however, would admit that even though SC2 Talim is the last time Talim was tournament viable... she is by far the least fun version of her to play.
 
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