Talim's Guard Crush Info

ZeroEffect317

ZeroEffect317

[13] Hero
This is where we can post stuff on her Guard Crush data and her options post guard crush.

Spreadsheet for Guard Burst data by @GranmasGotGame
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S0fl8yiyfy0t9xYwYm_00RATfbun09LzPw0WsoQde4E/edit?usp=sharing


I just discovered that certain breaks allow her to get a free Wind Cannon which Lethal Hits as a post Guard Crush option. For example, if you break guard with 2(A+B) you enter Wind Fury and can get a LH Cannon which you can combo after with WNS B or CE for the most damage. You can also do this by breaking with WNS (B). There's other, less obvious ones as well, but I haven't tested everything.


Most Guard Crushes should allow you a 236B combo at the very least. Which reminds me, 236B~66B~66A+B seems to be the best non-meter damage combo for her in this game.

Anyway guys.. PLEASE post up so I don't have to do all the work, lol.
 
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Thylacine492 said:
I'd have to check the numbers, but 236B~44B6~WNS (K)~4B(A)~G~6B should do the most damage for a non-meter combo.
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I'm getting 70 for both, but one's a lot flashier and the other is easier execution. Sometimes the WNS (K) is whiffing.
Also I was wrong, you CAN tech out of the 6B at the end but only to the right. you can swap out 3B for 1K or maybe BT 2K though.

Either way, the 66A+B ender leads to more stance game on wakeup, so in terms of momentum it might be the optimal combo. But both are about the same damage wise.
 
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236B~44B6~WNS (K)~4BB does more damage and seems to be easier to do. If you end with A,A,A+B you get back turned oki
 
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GranmasGotGame said:
Here's a link to a google sheetz I made with all of the "minimum" amounts of guard damage that all of her individual moves do along with what the total is when you use them together as a string.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1S0fl8yiyfy0t9xYwYm_00RATfbun09LzPw0WsoQde4E/edit?usp=sharing

I'll update it with all of the things that are relevant such as which moves will always crush guard and which ones will never crush guard.
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Looking at this Guard Crush data, i'm not sure if maybe the intent WAS for her to be good at guard damage, but they pulled back a bit...? They gave her a few decent tools for it in 66A+B, WNS A+B, WNC K, and her GB attacks. But then, removed the damage from quicker, more practical tools, like 2B and 66B that used to break in 13 and 10 respectively in SC4.

None of that would really matter too much, except they clearly wanted her to be able to harass the gauge since they bothered to give her two whole Lethal Hit bonuses for doing so. Maybe they were just playing it super safe?
 
I've found 66A+B to be her best non-Wind Cannon launcher after Guard Crush. Specifically 66A+B~WNS (B)~WNF K~1B/1K for about 85 damage.
It works after every Guard Crush (that you can't get Wind Cannon after) except for WNS K and 6B,B.

After a WNS K guard crush, waking up into 236 B seems to be the best option. I haven't checked her options for the WNS K (JF), however.
 
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Thylacine492 said:
Also, guard crushing with 66A+B4, 8B at max range, and 44B4 can lead into LH WNF B.
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I don't like 44B4 for guard crush because it's character specfic. In a lot of cases the WNF B whiffs in front of them. I don't know the entire cast it works on, but it seems to work on Talim mirrors, and seems to NOT work on Ivy, X, & Mina.

Isn't 66A+B~6~WNS (B)~WNF K pickup character specific as well? I know it doesn't work on everyone after CH FC 3BB~6~WNS (B), but I haven't tested 66A+B~6~WNS (B)

WNS K is an odd choice for a break, but if you DO hit the JF, she's in WNS during the slow mo. So in Soul Charge that will get you WNS (B)~WNF BB combo.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
Isn't 66A+B~6~WNS (B)~WNF K pickup character specific as well? I know it doesn't work on everyone after CH FC 3BB~6~WNS (B), but I haven't tested 66A+B~6~WNS (B)
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So I checked 66A+B~6~WNS (B)~WNF K on the entire cast and it hit everyone consistently. As for the follow up, 1K seems to be the most consistent option since 1B occasionally wouldn't register as part of the combo and 3B is already known to be character specific.
 
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Seems like the best way to get people red is to use 66A+B~6~WNS A+B or, if you can do the JF, 66A+B~6~WNS K:G~WNS A+B. WNS A+B isn't nearly as unsafe as it used to be, so most non-Sophitia/non-Raphael characters only get poke damage for it on block. The trade is heavily in Talim's favor at that point.

It takes 4 blocks of that sequence to break them. Not including any whiffed REs or whiffed GIs on their end. If you get the JF, It takes 3 blocks + an additional 66A+B. 66A+B on it's own is safe too.
 
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So the WNS K:G JF is gone. So that's no longer an option for wearing down the guard. 66A+B~6~WNS A+B is still just as good. As well as 66A+B~2_8~WNC K. Both do around 23% to 27% for the full sequence. WNC K is safe.

Also, moves to consider are 6A+B (12%), 22B:B (14%), & 3B (11%).
 
Now that WNS (B) no longer leads into WNF K, the next best follow ups after guard crush on attacks that don't lead into wind cannon are:

- 66A+B~2_8~WNC B:B JF (max damage ender for the launcher)
- 6BB~6~WNS (K)~4B(A) *partial charge*~BT AAB (for guaranteed damage) or BT B+K~BT A+G/4A+G/B (for a tech trap/mixup)
- 236B~66B~66A+B (allows for stance transitions) or WNS (K) (guaranteed after 66B if the opponent is knocked face down; launches if the opponent stays on the ground or gives a knockdown if the opponent techs)~appropriate ender

This is likely redundant to post by this point, but might as well do so anyways. If I recall correctly, these combos should all do damage in the 70-80 range.

For meter usage:

- 6BB~6~WNS (K)~66A~SC (opponent is left fairly close to you and does more damage than a raw SC after launch; depending on the direction the opponent air controls in it may leave the opponent behind you)
- 236B~CE (easy CE combo)
- 8B~CE (switches positioning)
 
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Thylacine492 said:
- 6BB~6~WNS (K)~4B(A) *partial charge*~BT AAB (for guaranteed damage) or BT B+K~BT A+G/4A+G/B (for a tech trap/mixup)
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I don't have much luck with this combo on smaller characters. The BT A never connects after the 4BA. I use BT B in that case, but even then it doesn't seem to work on every character.

Thylacine492 said:
- 6BB~6~WNS (K)~66A~SC (opponent is left fairly close to you and does more damage than a raw SC after launch; depending on the direction the opponent air controls in it may leave the opponent behind you)
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Is this an actual Soul Charge setup that can't be air controlled? Never tried using 66A as a juggle, so I don't know if it can be air controlled away.
 
ZeroEffect317 said:
I don't have much luck with this combo on smaller characters. The BT A never connects after the 4BA. I use BT B in that case, but even then it doesn't seem to work on every character.


Is this an actual Soul Charge setup that can't be air controlled? Never tried using 66A as a juggle, so I don't know if it can be air controlled away.
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For 4BA, you have to time it so that you get the knockdown as early as possible. It should hit consistently then from my experience.

66A can be air controlled but, assuming you time it correctly, the opponent can’t get far enough away from you to put Talim at a disadvantage.
 
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