The battle of big swords

[TasteTheRainbow]

Pay yo bills Vints!

 

[WARUI_NE]

kiliks B+K is brain dead....its not hard to do either.........it nulifys %50 of your movelist

 

[Synraii]

Kilik is braindead

 

[Synraii]

I'm going to try to answer everyone's questions in one post, so I'm sorry that it's a long read.

I do use Kilik, but he's not my best by any means. I assume your talking about B+K 6B 41236B, right? I'm curious as to why you think that move is brain dead, when 95% of moves in the entire game are easier to pull off than that one. The first attack in that 3 string comes off a tad slow anyway. I do admit I have seen Kilik users abusing that move, but that's not me. I don't abuse any move really, I always try to give my opponent headaches by being unpredictable, which means I have to use almost all of the moves fairly regularly.

So many people are under the "sift through garbage moves and only use the best" mentality on how to play a character. Well guess what, I use the "garbage" moves too, if only for their "SURPRISE" value.

For example Sieg's 3(B). That move is probably his most generally useful move, simply because of the speed, range, and juggling that it presents. Many people have even made the claim that if it weren't for that one move, he would be bottom tier. There might be an element of truth in that last statement. I must admit, I use 3(B) often, but I don't abuse the crap out of it like some people do. Any move, if done too much, your opponent will find a way around it, or counter it, or GI it.

For all I know, using a limited move list for some (or even most) characters is a good idea. But for the characters I use, It just doesn't work.

I really don't know how many ways I can explain this, but I'll try again. Against SOPHIE, it really doesn't matter if you already know exactly what moves she will use against you, because she is fast enough that reacting to her moves is not always feasible. Also, it means nothing to be able to predict your opponent when there's nothing you can do about it anyway. There are too many situations where she gets easy, free damage. Any character that can get away with AA, BB over and over again is IMO a cheese ball character.


Now compare that to Sieg or NM. If they decide to limit the moves to just 5-7 best moves, the opponent will not only predict it, but be able to react to it due to the fact that Sieg and NM are slow.

And besides, just because a certain move is not "the best" doesn't mean it can't be useful.

I guess it really all depends on your definition of "thinking". If Nm has 10 moves for 10 different situations, and SOPHIE's one stupidly powerful move covers 10 situations, then it's pretty safe to say that SOPHIE requires little thought in execution. If I offend any SOPHIE users out there, well that's life, deal with it.

I have given you damned good reasons why I think SOPHIE is brainless cheap ass bitch that anyone can pick up in 15 minutes. Me and an offline friend of mine actually put this to the test. We both got to be pretty damned good with her VERY quickly and with hardly any mental sweat broken. In 15 minutes, his SOPHIE was getting like 40% win ratio to my CASS, which I've used for about 6 months now. Sure I still beat him, but he should NOT have given me that much trouble that quickly, and especially with only 4-5 moves that he used. And you know what he said about it? "Sophitia is by far the easiest and stupidest character in the game". We both stopped using her because it really was no fun at all using her, and not because we thought she was OP (by all means no), but because her style was the most boring to play and watch.

Now if you disagree with me, fine. All I'm trying to do is give an honest, logical answer the best way I can.

I have engaged in pointless back and forth arguments in the past on 8wayrun. I got a little wise on that one. So if you want to critique my argument, fine. But please don't start this childish name-calling by calling me a scrub. I asked Engared once who he thinks is a beginner character, and one of his answers were the sisters. So obviously a very respected and well known SC player shares my opinion.



And for the sake of being fair, AMY is just as mindless.



I'm poor, and my PS3 is busted. Wait 3 more weeks and I promise you, I WILL call you out Vincent.


The only question is, are you willing to put up with a lot of lag because I'm pretty sure we live on opposite sides of the country. I live in (gasp) North Carolina (I hate the south). Too many stupid rednecks who literally cannot read.


If you hate me, fine, but let's keep this civil. No reason for name-calling other than to boost your own ego.

Actually, as Static and Partisan will tell you, I barely, if ever use 3B unless it's a punisher, so HA!
In my experience, Siegfrieds who use 3B a lot are an argument FOR making him bottom tier.
You want a tech duck? iWS B, you want a speedy mid poke? B6.
There are times when 3B is useful, otherwise it's just a lousy panic button.
That's just me though

*You will need to auto merge this, Troy =P*

 

[MONEYMUFFINS]

I did mention that I was poor right? And I also mentioned that I live in North Carolina, so how do you expect me to afford an expensive plane ticket? I can barely pay rent for god's sake.
How old are you, kid? because based off of your childish insults and rants, I'm guessing your about 12 or 13 years old.

It's obvious that you hate gays as well. Bigoted and arrogant. Sounds like your a real class A citizen. Even if you could beat me in this game, I will NEVER RESPECT YOU, because your an arrogant son of a bitch.

And for the record, I am not gay. I just can't stand bigoted ass holes like you. I have a cousin who's gay, and guess what? He's a successful doctor. NOW YOU HAVE MADE THIS PERSONAL!

If I ever do meet you in person, I'm gonna have to try to resist punching you in the face repeatedly. Nothing would satisfy me better than to put you in the hospital with 2 broken hands as to render you incapable of playing SC forever.

You sound so brave now, I would like to see you talk like this in person. Go ahead and try, see how I'll react.

You say I'm a fraud? I say your a coward.

What's that? You're gay with your cousin and you like to play doctor with him? That sounds personal. Keep it to yourself, homo.

BTW, I got nothing against gays. Sometimes I even watch DP porn. But ur still a fraud with an uninformed opinion, and I am better than you at everything that matters in life: SoulCalibur IV.

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[RedDjinn]

I did mention that I was poor right? And I also mentioned that I live in North Carolina, so how do you expect me to afford an expensive plane ticket? I can barely pay rent for god's sake.
How old are you, kid? because based off of your childish insults and rants, I'm guessing your about 12 or 13 years old.

It's obvious that you hate gays as well. Bigoted and arrogant. Sounds like your a real class A citizen. Even if you could beat me in this game, I will NEVER RESPECT YOU, because your an arrogant son of a bitch.

And for the record, I am not gay. I just can't stand bigoted ass holes like you. I have a cousin who's gay, and guess what? He's a successful doctor. NOW YOU HAVE MADE THIS PERSONAL!

If I ever do meet you in person, I'm gonna have to try to resist punching you in the face repeatedly. Nothing would satisfy me better than to put you in the hospital with 2 broken hands as to render you incapable of playing SC forever.

You sound so brave now, I would like to see you talk like this in person. Go ahead and try, see how I'll react.

You say I'm a fraud? I say your a coward.

Why uMAD? Its a forum...

 

[Lasercakes]

I'm going to try to answer everyone's questions in one post, so I'm sorry that it's a long read.

You don't have to apologize.

I do use Kilik, but he's not my best by any means. I assume your talking about B+K 6B 41236B, right? I'm curious as to why you think that move is brain dead, when 95% of moves in the entire game are easier to pull off than that one.

So you're saying you nail i15 TAS B every time?
Asura is not that hard, but an execution barrier has nothing to do with a move being brain dead. iUmbrellas (2143a:B) on disadvantage, how thoughtful is that?

The first attack in that 3 string comes off a tad slow anyway.

You do know it tech jumps, tech crouches, and GIs all mids that aren't kicks right?

So many people are under the "sift through garbage moves and only use the best" mentality on how to play a character. Well guess what, I use the "garbage" moves too, if only for their "SURPRISE" value.

So you used Sophie's 8A+K series?

I really don't know how many ways I can explain this, but I'll try again. Against SOPHIE, it really doesn't matter if you already know exactly what moves she will use against you, because she is fast enough that reacting to her moves is not always feasible.

Don't flail around in TAS B tip range. Just turtle up, or step-G to her right. If you're going to be free you can't complain. If you lose to a mindless Sophie it's your own fault for not having strong enough basics.

Also, it means nothing to be able to predict your opponent when there's nothing you can do about it anyway. There are too many situations where she gets easy, free damage. Any character that can get away with AA, BB over and over again is IMO a cheese ball character.

What are you talking about? AA and BB as punishment?

I guess it really all depends on your definition of "thinking". If Nm has 10 moves for 10 different situations, and SOPHIE's one stupidly powerful move covers 10 situations, then it's pretty safe to say that SOPHIE requires little thought in execution.

So what 10 situations are these?

In 15 minutes, his SOPHIE was getting like 40% win ratio to my CASS, which I've used for about 6 months now.

Until someone plays you (even online), we don't know how solid your are. Sorry, this can't help your argument yet.

I asked Engared once who he thinks is a beginner character, and one of his answers were the sisters. So obviously a very respected and well known SC player shares my opinion.

She IS a good beginning character, but I thought we were talking about high level here.

 

[PANDA]

lolumad

 

[Nirf]

@ damn-I-Suck:

Some characters its easy to learn the moves you need to cover all the different situations, like Amy. To me, this means that a very good player can quickly become very good with Amy. It does not mean a crappy player can quickly become good with Amy.

Can we just chill and not say character X is easy or for noobs, or be degrading? Some characters are easier to learn for beginners, there's no question. Some characters have less technical moves (and this is a big reason I play Voldo, I could never master iMCF and many other just frames for other characters). And some characters, even their high level game takes less raw hours to master then others. It doesn't make them mindless. If you go into any tournament and are doing well, with any character, you are a very good SC4 player, and a "thinking" one, in my book.

I will be blunt: i think you are caught in thinking in terms of moves for complexity instead of things like step, frame traps, reverse mixups, etc. Your statement complaining that a lot of players have the mentality of paring down the crap moves out of the move list to use the good ones is indicative of this also.

The best thing to do though, is ultimately just learn Sophie and come play some people from these forums online. I can basically guarantee you will get annihilated (if you play the right people). Then maybe you will see that playing Sophie has its challenges like any other character. Ask lasercakes if he feels like he can just play his Sophia mindlessly and win games against decent players.

 

[Synraii]

Quite right, Sophie is easy to pick up but by no means impossible to beat.
Hell, I just played lasercakes with Sieg (2-8 disadvantage) and it was a bloody close match: 3-2 CF ender, go Sieg! ^_^
My point is, Sophitia is his worst possible matchup and even though it was a casual online match I didn't get raped, got TAS B'd a bit, but hey. Anyways he knew what he was doing, played smart and it was still a really close fight. The reason it was close is because I don't cry like a baby when someone chooses her, I learn how to fight against her, try that and quit bitching, it might get you somewhere.

 

[damn-I-Suck]

LOL. I think I finally know what all of you are so hot and bothered about. I insulted too many SOPHIE users out there. BooHoo you big cry babies. I'm sooo sorry I hurt your feelings, "how dare he call my character a newb character!!" You guys, for the most part, are pathetic. You can't stand it when someone says ANYTHING negative about your character. The only reason I kept going back and forth on this is because most of you insisted that I was a scrub, saying I challenged years of veteran's theory of the game. Well guess what, I'M A VETERAN OF SC TOO, DUMBASSES. I never did any tournaments because I'm far too busy with work and schooling, GET IT?

Don't assume that I'm some spoiled rich kid who drives daddy's old MERCEDES. My parents kicked me out at 18, with no job, and no place to stay. I was homeless for 5 years bro, ponder that. Back in those days I kept my slim PS2, and my SHITBOX for a car. All of my possessions were in that little 4 cylinder 1989 mazda hatchback. I was homeless while I was playing SC with some random outdoor outlet (had a small TV TOO). Once, me and another homeless dude were playing SC2 @2 in the morning in a shopping center parking lot sitting on a wood bench in the freezing cold. The cops pulled up and we had to leave. If that doesn't qualify me as a dedicated SC player, then I don't know what else will. Between me and my fiance, we have one full time job making only 10$ an hour, so STFU about me being a fraud.

Call me an underachiever, a loser, an ex-bumb, whatever. But if you say I'm a fraud, you couldn't be more wrong.

Don't bother saying anything else on the topic, I won't respond anymore.

 

[Lasercakes]

snip

Well, when you're done with your irl problems we'll be glad to play you in some amazing high level lag matches. :)

 

[damn-I-Suck]

Well, when you're done with your irl problems we'll be glad to play you in some amazing high level lag matches. :)

As if an online match means anything. I admit that I have virtually no experience with online. As soon as I tried it (with 5 bars mind you), I new right away that it was crap.

But if you insist, I will play you later on down the road, as soon as I get another PS3. Maybe you can check out my youtube vids instead and rate my level of play.

I encourage constructive criticism. I know I have holes in my game, but I also have strong points.

At least now if people watch those videos that I posted recently, they can at least base their opinion of my skill level on something more tangible than mere words.

Check it out and tell me what u guys think.

 

[Lasercakes]

As if an online match means anything. I admit that I have virtually no experience with online. As soon as I tried it (with 5 bars mind you), I new right away that it was crap.

Yeah it does take some getting used to, but it will at least determine how good your basics are, like throw breaking, stepping, and safety/respect for frames.

But if you insist, I will play you later on down the road, as soon as I get another PS3. Maybe you can check out my youtube vids instead and rate my level of play.

Can't say anything about SC3. Haven't played that too much. Also, I own an Xbox, but PSN I've heard is a much better place, so stick with that.

 

[damn-I-Suck]

Yeah unfortunately, 3 is the only SC i got right now, so I gotta live with it.

 

[Synraii]

Why am I reminded strongly of Jorn?
More to the point, why do you feel the need to barrage us with life stories? Is your self esteem really dependent on what a bunch of random guys think on a website?
Calm down man, it doesn't matter. You don't need to get angry.
... Unless it's from Reddjinn and your name is Synraii XD