Tier Discussion

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I'm not a horrible Natsu player, beat a couple good Natsu players in ranked (yes I realize it's online). She is very good, but she does struggle badly with certain matchups. I'd say a patient Pyrrah is probably the one that sends me into fits of rage more often than any other character. I play a local Pyrrah who's pretty good and I swear that is such an uphill battle, and watching other videos of that matchup usually confirm that it goes in Pyrrah's favor. Also, most characters that can keep Natsu at range with a long weapon and are fast enough to force her to try to get in will give her trouble. Xiba and NM come to mind. Ironically, that bastard DJ gives Natsu a ton of trouble too, but who cares about him.

I'd say overall, Natsu is really fast, but not really safe with anything but pokes, and even her basic BB is not safe... she can only make it safer with the 4A+B~A follow up - even then it's duck punishable. She literally has nothing that gives her enough positive frames to mount a suppressing offensive besides 99_33K and POS B, one of which is slow, the other extremely linear and only doable in POS. B~K GB is useless vs anyone who knows how to duck, and the non-charged one is not even a reliable knockdown punisher since even if the B hits a crouching opponent, the K will always whiff. She only seems safe because she's fast, and in time, people will figure that out. I'm pretty sure I already have, and most other Natsu's give me nothing I can't handle if I'm fully awake.

I also co-main Asta, and most anything that gives Natsu trouble, Asta seems to handle better. Go figure.
 
I don't know about any specifics yet, but it seems the most agressive rushdown characters are going to be top tier. I main Pyrrha O and find myself getting Guard Burst quite a lot when I play a patient punish game.

Also I've been playing SC since II and it feels the damage has increased overall-- matches are much faster. I think characters like Astaroth are going to have an advantage this time around
 
You do remember SCII Voldo combos right?

And unless Bullrush takes a serious fucking buff, I doubt Astaroth will even make top half this time. Why do I want to stand now?
 
On the people I know:

Siegfried is terrible right now.

Raphael has issues, but I'm not sure how horrible they'll end up being. He gets pretty good damage off of whiff punishing, and I personally think Prep is scary if the character you're playing doesn't have a braindead answer to it. However, risk vs reward is skewed in the opponent's favor, as seems to be the problem with low tiers in general in this game - step punishes are way more terrible than anything he can get out of Prep and SE, and his meter moves are just kind of "there" and will hurt him more than the opponent if they know what's up - for example, anyone with a vertical aGI will beat 6Bb(BE)/Prep Bb(BE) every time. He also seems to have a really good GB game, but his post GB options are really eh - you'll only ringout with 66K if their back is to the edge, and your best damage dealing option seems to be 66(B) - Prep A+B, which doesn't feel like much for the work.

I think people discount Dampierre, and not without reason - no one has ever played him at a high level at all. and at a glance he seems like King of the Gimmicks. He doesn't have range at all, and his step kill is basically just his 4A. He's also frustratingly random, and once you understand the mechanics of Poker Bluff and Fake Pain, you will rarely get anything out of those stances. However, his damage output can get insanely high very quickly without using any meter, and his bread and butter combo ender - B!E! - can randomly Clean Hit. His 33*99b(BE) is pretty great - TCing, mid, advantaged (I think) launcher that combos into B!E! for more insane damage, AND it can randomly GB- it's probably the only Mishima thing in this game that I like. His only weaknesses are a lack of step kill, terrible range, a ring-out game that would make Raphael feel privileged, and of course, unreliability in what he does.

Ezio is great. Insieme per la vittoria!
 
Subjective said:
I don't know about any specifics yet, but it seems the most agressive rushdown characters are going to be top tier. I main Pyrrha O and find myself getting Guard Burst quite a lot when I play a patient punish game.

Also I've been playing SC since II and it feels the damage has increased overall-- matches are much faster. I think characters like Astaroth are going to have an advantage this time around
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I'm not sure if Pyrrah O can backstep like normal Pyrrah, but normal Pyrrah has a straight up MEAN backstep, darting in and out of range of short range pressure characters and punishing with basic BBs and stab. It's frustrating when you have to work hard to just not whiff, and then everything she throws at you is either safe with enough damage to make you think twice, or punishment for your unsafe stuff which you kinda have to use just to make sure you don't whiff.

Also, I do think Sieg needs some help. He seems to have some hit box issues especially at close range from my time with him in the lab. Dunno him well enough to say anything more than that, other than if you whiff with him, you will pay dearly. Then again, same can be said for any character, but it's just that much worse when your character is slower than molasses on top of having hitbox issues. My Asta pretty much loses entire rounds on one whiff too.
 
I mained sieg, asta and natsu and i can pretty much agree to the consensus most people came up with. While i think sieg in a vacuum is not that bad, considering the majority of way safer and faster characters have the same or even better damage output seems extremely wrong.

Natsu is definitely S tier in my book. I don't think that she is op per se but i think even the biggest fanboy has to agree that at least the damage output of her air grapple is nonsense. Of course everything can be read and blocked but the bomb isn't really that hard to land and so much punishment for such a minor mistake is really straight up unfair.
I always feel so cheap when i land that combo.
 
It is a major mistake because you will be punished hard, not because it is hard to land the bomb thus requiring extreme stupidity from the opponent (like when you are getting hit by an unblockable for example). This is a fine difference.
 
That post doesn't make sense =S :
Bombs are not punishers.
They aren't paticularly unsafe - hardly anyone can punish them midscreen.
Getting hit by them is not stupidity, its the user being smart.
 
Well i certainly don't feel smart if i deal 80+ damage to my opponent just because he didn't manage to block my arguably moderately fast, low hitting bomb.
Sorry my wording was a little bit confusing on my last post, i didn't mean 4A+B is a good punisher i meant the risk on landing that trick/ the difficulty to block it does by no means justify 80+ damage. The risk/reward relation for that move is just completely off.
 
Reave said:
Wow i guess everyone who thinks Natsu is OP has piss poor reaction time.
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ChaosK said:
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You said there was difficulty in blocking 4A+B so what ever you say about Natsu is irrelevant to me. There is enough time to duck then jump off the ground for 2A+B. Ninja bombs aren't as threatening as you think they are so the damage is justified IMO.
 
ChaosK said:
Nope, you should read it again.
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Nope you should read it again. You said "the risk on landing that trick/the difficulty to block it by no means justify 80+ damage". Right there you are saying it's hard to block it. I block it consistently online and my boyfriend blocks it consistently offline because he fights her so much. His friends get hit by it though because they haven't begun to fear it yet. I use Maxi more often but if I pick Natsu three times in a row I'm sure everyone in the room will adapt. Right now they marvel at the health lost too much to pay attention.
 
Reave said:
Nope you should read it again. You said "the risk on landing that trick/the difficulty to block it by no means justify 80+ damage". Right there you are saying it's hard to block it. I block it consistently online and my boyfriend blocks it consistently offline because he fights her so much. His friends get hit by it though because they haven't begun to fear it yet. I use Maxi more often but if I pick Natsu three times in a row I'm sure everyone in the room will adapt. Right now they marvel at the health lost too much to pay attention.
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You still don't seem to get the point so i'll explain it to you. I am not saying it is hard to block, i am saying that a move that deals 80+ should be extremely hard to land, like an unblockable. Which for this move just isn't the case, its an average speed move around i30 if i remember correctly. Such moves normally aren't that hard to block but will occasionally get through and therefore deal an average amount of damage.

Hope this clears things up for you.
 
That's the fucking game. Get hit once lose 80-120 points of damage and that's without a wall for some characters. Unless there was a damage nerf across the board I was unaware of. Why single out one character and there move when others do just as much damage. The only character im concerned with is A. Pat. He is way to safe with ridiculous damage off of throws IMO.
 
I dont know honestly. I think its ok if a ridiculous hard to execute combo deals enormous damage but in this case its just bomb + grapple and she can perform her air grapple out of multiple moves. The only thing that comes close to this is asta's 28B+G and this one is way more difficult to land and also less potent on a slow character like him.

I think thats just insane, i still play her main but this particular move feels so cheap to me that i try to not use it that often. The rest of her moveset seems quite balanced to me, very good but not broken.
 
I have no difficulty executing my Maxi combos or Patroklos combos. Slight difficulty with Dampierre. Difficulty in executing is subjective. I have a harder time doing her combos with FCA+B then A. Patroklos 1AA:A just frame. I just pick him out of boredom.

I also miss the air grab a lot because I'm used to it getting blocked lol.
 
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