top 10 moves

MuffinMan123

MuffinMan123

[10] Knight
what are the 10 moves that a new voldo player should get familiar with before venturing out online? usually I look at combo starter moves in the combo list, but then I realized not all of those combo starter moves are practical in real fight.
 
1) BS WS B
2) 1{K}
3) BS 8KB
4) CR [K]
5) BS 2A+B
6) BS 6BB
7) 66K
8) 66B BE
9) 66A+BK
10) BS 6ABB or 66[A+B] or CE or 6B BE
 
It's not really about knowing his best 10 moves, IMO, it's more about knowing his options.

Anti-step from normal stance:
22_88A
CR [K]

Anti-step from blind stance:
BS 4A

Whiff punish from normal stance:
44A+B
66A+BK
A+B[3]

Whiff punish from blind stance:
BS 8WR BK, BS 66B

High punishes:
1[K], BS 2B+K, MCHT K
BCR B, BS 4K, BS 8WR K, BS 8WR B

Options to stop rolling:
66B BE
A+B[3] (possibly whiffs) CR [K]
BS 2A+B

1[K] blocked:
BS B+K auto-GI
BS throw to sidestep verticals
BS 2A+B to tech crouch most lows and evade shorter range mids

4BA blocked:
BS 66G+A
BS 2A+B
BS throw to sidestep verticals
BS B+K auto-GI
BCR B once they want to duck due to the above

CR [K] blocked:
BS 2A+B
BS B+K auto-GI
BCR B if you anticipate a high
BS 2_8[A+K] into LFFT K into LFHT mixups

Normal wakeup:
A+B[3] into CR BB or CR [K], depending on whether you expect them to roll sideways or forwards/backwards
66B BE
2A+B if you anticipate rolling
44A+B as a tech trap after some knockdowns
CR throw if they are the right distance and they do not reaction duck it. Also, on characters of a certain height like Cervantes, seems to hit as a back throw rather frequently.

Blind stance wakeup:
BCR B to punish if they remain grounded or duck on standing
BS 2K to bait them to stand into BS 66G+A, BS 2K is very non-threatening so most find it safe to try to stand after it hits
BS 8WR B, hits grounded and if it hits them when they stand you get 666B combos
BS 8BK if you anticipate them standing mid, BS 8B if you think they will stay grounded and try to roll out of the K to punish
BS 2A+B to catch them if they roll then stand

If I had to choose only 10 moves though, here they are:

2A
66A+B
A+B[3]
CR [K]
1[K]
BCR B
BS 2A+B
22_88A
66B BE
BS/CR throws
 
Good post! Shame we never got to see any of these options coming from the French quater-finalist in the recent WGC2K12. I also find myself using the BS B+K after blocked 1[K], and I think Land Fish should be incorporated into many of the options above. And if you can guard crush with [B+K] and burst it with 1[K] then Voldo's most damaging combos/tech traps can be initiated via BS 4B.
 
Good stuff!

I'd just add CR AA to the Anti-Steps, since it leads to 80-130+ damage, making it his most damaging step killer.
 
Punchdrunk said:
Good stuff!

I'd just add CR AA to the Anti-Steps, since it leads to 80-130+ damage, making it his most damaging step killer.
Click to expand...

CR AA is incredibly unsafe, I don't use it because of that. Also, how does it lead to 80-130+ damage? You get 66B BE for 69-70 (depending on their facing for the ground hits), or CE MCHT K for 84 damage. I don't really want to burn an extra 1/2 gauge to get 14 more damage though, not when that could be another 66B BE. Can you clarify how you're getting 80-130+ off of a CR AA?

Mantis, I agree that the LF stuff can be incorporated into a lot of the things I posted above. Thing is, LFFT is pretty useless, and you are vulnerable for a little bit after LFFT K before you can do LFHT moves. So, I'll generally only go into LFFT after CR [K], since I don't want my opponent to know what the hell I am going to do after CR [K], and because I don't want to use it often enough for them to punish it on reaction.

Anyone ever try CR K, 66B BE? I think I might add that to my CR K options. Basically I abort any failed A+B[3] into CR K, and I want to make my opponent scared enough of my post CR K options that I can keep the pressure.
 
SPQR said:
Can you clarify how you're getting 80-130+ off of a CR AA?
Click to expand...
*May lead to. It's just the CE that tech traps any direction for full animation. Considering A+B3 (+another tech mixup) is guaranteed vs non-tech, and punishable if teched, I'd say it's a viable mixup.
 
I agree with the premise of SPQR's post, but seeing as how this is more or less just a "for fun" thread, this is my top 10. No particular order, other than that I think BS WR/CR B is the bee's knees


BS WR/CR B

WR A+B (specifically that, as you get to avoid the CR startup animation and leads to FC 3B/WR A+B RO mixups)

2A

3BB (for now...until people start just guarding it every time)

BS CR A+B

66B BE

A+B~3 (I actually kind of hate this move since the transition forces unsafe CR mixups, but it's too vital to his overall game not to mention)

BS 2A+B

BS throws

1K/1{K}
 
6A series
1A
B/BB
4A
2B series
WR B series
jump A
44B
4K
1K


BS

BS CR A
BS B+K
BS 2A+B
BS 6BB
BS CR B
BS jump K

Other: everything in BS. I like his Backstep for some reason.
BS 6A
BS 4K
BS 2A
BS CR A+B
WS K
 
Is it too late to contribute considering where Voldo is now?

1. 1K/1[K]/BT 4K - If you don't use this move more than 15 times in one match than there is something wrong with you.
2. 666B - An outstanding move, one of Voldo's best punishers. Only downside is its stupid negative on JG.
3. 4A - Good guard damage, only -2 on block (-10 on JG). I only wish this move was two or three frames faster.
4. 2B/2BB - Good pressure tool that leads into a 50/50 mixup.
5. 11*77K - A lol poke with awesome advantage.
6. 66K - Great guard damage and puts that FrCs the opponent on block.
7. CR K - I mostly use this move for mixups.
8. CE - Yup. Even on block, it's still safe enough to force the opponent into a mixup. Not only that, but it can break guard, too.
9. 44B - On hit leads into a 90-something dmg combo. Great guard damage, -2 on block and puts you into BT.
10. BT 2A+B - Why not. The only reason why it isn't higher on the list is because it seems too gimmicky to me.

LF and MCHT K is also good.
 
It's never too late to have some voldo love but...
Those kind of top10 as in 10 moves and that's it are kinda useless with Voldo.

You must actually make 2 top10 lists : one for normal stance and one for BS.
Why two lists ? Because you're actually playing two different characters in one (just like JS/GS Tira).


Although, with Voldo top10 may not cut it since it's one of the rare character where you have a real decent command list... And most of his moves are useful.

Let me translate what I made in the french forum :

Voldo in normal stance :
Your gameplan should be zoning/defensive oriented, you have very good pokes, decent starters and whiffpunish, and very, very good antibackdash moves.
666B shines a lot, since it's actually your best move : i17 fast, safe (okay apart from CE aPat/Cervy + Natsu AA/A6), damaging (60-84-100dmg depending on BE), RO starter, wall damage is possible, good guard break damage and light tracking. aPat approved move, it's completely stupid.
Most opponent will want to evade that (JG, step) and you can actually deal decent damage against those kind of stuff.

666B : Your best move, for obvious reasons.

66K : One of his best antibackdash with crusher properties (TJ/TC depending on animation). Only downside : easy to step (but light tracking), if blocked Voldo is in BS with CAC opponent and no really good active answer to do.

22_88B : Good step punish move. An actually good move overall, although kinda slow. Transition into LF mix up.

1[K] : Your basic whiff punish at medium range. When you can't 666B, use 1[K] for medium damage and low risk. Really safe too, and good active answers to use afterwards (although guard is often the best option). Light tracking.

66B : One of his best poke. Safish on JG too (-15 block) to confuse opponent with 666B (which is -24 block on JG). +8 on hit, light combo on CH and BE possibility for decent damage on NH.

22_88A : One of his best antistep. Good range, safe and TC.

1A : Good low poke, good range, good antistep and BS transition. Really good active answers afterwards since it's -1 on hit... if you master RCC after that move.

4A : Good high antistep poke, good range, BS transition, really safe (-2), and +8 hit ! Close range, you have amazing mix up. Medium to far range, really good zoning options.

44A : Medium range, antistep mid and safe with really good adv. on hit. You need it and should definitively use it in some situations.

33_99A : Deceptive good range, safe, good GB damage and antistep. It's slow, but the range and properties makes up for it.

Here's some move you should actually use but shouldn't actually be in a top10 :
- basic pokes : 2A/AA/3K. Forget BB since it's too slow. Use 66B or 3K instead.
- CR A+B / WS A+B : a low poke with big disadvantage on hit. Ultra unsafe but can't be seen.
-2BB : Whiffpunish, but on block it's kinda bad (since 2nd hit can be stepped really easy and 2B] is not that good on block).
- WS K] / CR K] : kinda good, with +2 on hit, but it's a bit too slow and you don't often use the +2hit for pressure.
- 3A : Antistep mid unsafe but some characters can't punish it properly (Yoshi for exemple).
- 11K : +6 hit low poke. It pushes back on hit (limiting your options), and it's really easy to step though.
- 4K : GB-kill oriented move. Apart from that, it has TJ properties and it's safe. But its uses are too situationnal to be put in a top10.
- 4BAA : Very good NC move for whiffpunish. 50ish damage and +10 hit ! 2nd hit can be ducked on block so make sure to use it on hit. 4B on its own is actually a very good move (GB kill oriented move). It's your best BE less low punisher and throw punisher too.
- 6ABA] : Situationnal antistep. High and has off axis problems. Good wall combo though.

Voldo in BS :

You should use close range mix up in BS since they're actually very good.
Most oppnent will try to abuse that with backdash so you will have to adjust your game in consequences (using antibackdash and transtionning into normal stance).

BS 2B+K : +16 mix up on block move with really good mix up although kinda risky.

BS 2A+B : i22 low with good range and STC properties.

BS 4A : good antistep mid with deceptive range and good advantage. Abuse it !

BS 4K : A decent whiff punish / step punish.

BS 6BB / 6B6B : really good move. i15 fast, safe, damaging on hit and built in combo. BS 6B6B can be JGd though, but you can actually change it to BS 6BB to make it so much harder. It has off axis problem so be carefull and use BS 4K if off axis.

BS 6ABB : your close range antistep. Really fast and insane damage on CH for an i14 move. Try to confirm the CH though, since it's really unsafe on JG.

BS WR B / BCR B : Insane move. Really good damage (84 to 102dmg) depending on BE, safe, and tracks OTG. Abuse it.

BS WR A / BCR A : Very good mid and good damage (75 to 109 depnding on BE). With BE, you actually have spacing opportunities with a combo variation (CH BS WR A BS 66B into combo). Can RO or wall splat.

BS 4B : amazing move. Insane properties : safe, very good range and pusback on block, TJ, really damaging combo on CH, kills GB in 8, good on hit, really good tracking (kills backdash 2_8G too) and tons of combo variations for spacing or RO opportunities. One of your best antibackdash in BS.

BS B+K : Very good move too. autoGI, kinda good antibackdash and situationnal 100% garanteed combo depending on range (BS B+K 66K is 100% garanteed at close-medium range for 44dmg). Only downside : it's high.

Some other insteresting moves that shouldn't be in a top10 :
- BS A : your normal stance transition and high poke with low recovery.
- BS 8B : good TJ, the follow up is hit confirmable for decent damage.
- BS 8WR B] : your biggest starter, insane RO, insane damage. Use it on whiffpunish or hope it hits. Unsafe though.

Some moves that I can't classify but that you should definitively use :
CE / BS CE : Really good CE. Damaging, and you can use it a lot in combos. You end up in BS with opponent at your feets (perfect situation).

MCHT K : -1 block, light combo on hit, decent tech traps, very good GB damage. Use it. Abuse it.

MCHT 66 : 40ish dmg low. It's dangerous though so make sure to be careful with it.

2_8A+K] : Very good evade move. LF mix up possible.

22_88A+B : situational free mix up use. Your opponent needs to freeze for it to work though so... Be carefull with it.


Oh and don't forget throws. Voldo NEEDS them (in BS they're very good, and in normal stance, it's your best guard opening move). It's so basic I didn't put it in the top10 but well... Abuse it.
 
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