Useless moves

1K should be used when you're anticipating a step from your opponent after they have a frame disadvantage, like if a Pyrrha uses a blocked BB in an attempt to bait a vertical whiff. 22K does a similar thing with more reward, but it's too slow to use like 1K. It's actually a pretty good move. You should try to use it more often.

In fact, you can pick up a lot more variety by just attempting to use some of the moves you've got in this thread. I should start doing it more too. I've already started a bit with 33A.
 
I use 1K mainly for the fast TC in anticipation of highs. I think its pretty good.
One MU where i like it in particular is astaroth, since -16 doesn't mean that much against him and its a nice punish for throw attempts when you dont want to commit to 4B.
 
i think 1K is needlessly unsafe for a slow high, but I wouldn't call it "useless". I do use the moves listed, but on rare occasions.
 
So, what do you guys think about 4A and 8A+B? When and how do you use them (if at all)?
 
Delloso said:
i think 1K is needlessly unsafe for a slow high, but I wouldn't call it "useless". I do use the moves listed, but on rare occasions.
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Imo it should stun on NH instead of CH if it unsafe, high, and only tracking to one side. Another move that needs an upgrade in the next game.

Delloso said:
So, what do you guys think about 4A and 8A+B? When and how do you use them (if at all)?
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Ahh 4A still has TS and tracks well but lost it's CH stun after SC3 (unsafety became unjustified ever since). It needs that stun back. 4A is an easy option to counter the final hit of Pyrrha's 66B BE rather than JG and QS. Refer to the String Defense Guides for more specific 4A uses.

8A+B has such a narrow window lol. Use it on wakeup if you know your opponents' habits of using a vertical or horizontal.
 
Fendante said:
Imo it should stun on NH instead of CH if it unsafe, high, and only tracking to one side. Another move that needs an upgrade in the next game.
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Exactly. Right now it's negative ON HIT, quite unnecessary for a move with so many flaws. It has some good things, but are they really a justification for all of this? What this move did to deserve being SE beta K on sc4 and now brought back as 1K for sc5, I'll never know. It's better against characters who suck at punishing, like Zwei or Astaroth, but if you do it on the greeks you're signing your own death sentence.
Fendante said:
Ahh 4A still has TS and tracks well but lost it's CH stun after SC3 (unsafety became unjustified ever since). It needs that stun back. 4A is an easy option to counter the final hit of Pyrrha's 66B BE rather than JG and QS. Refer to the String Defense Guides for more specific 4A uses.
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What did the stun guarantee back then?
 
Delloso said:
What did the stun guarantee back then?
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6A+BA, which is now A+BA, and this weird move - 22*88A+B. Two mid hits, and the second hit whiffed on standing opponents in certain situations. 6A+BA did a bit more damage, and with the way things are now, the combo would most likely be CH 4A ~ 6A+BA ~ 66A+B. B+K ~ VE K also caught all tech at a wall or ring's edge for W! or RO.
 
Lindstrom said:
6A+BA, which is now A+BA, and this weird move - 22*88A+B. Two mid hits, and the second hit whiffed on standing opponents in certain situations. 6A+BA did a bit more damage, and with the way things are now, the combo would most likely be CH 4A ~ 6A+BA ~ 66A+B. B+K ~ VE K also caught all tech at a wall or ring's edge for W! or RO.
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How was 22*88A+B weird lol? I miss the SC2 version (4A+B) of that move when it was NC instead of NCC in 3. Actually I don't think you can get the theoretical combo you stated unless they give 4A a new stun animation that doesn't make them crumple as quickly.

Delloso said:
Exactly. Right now it's negative ON HIT, quite unnecessary for a move with so many flaws. It has some good things, but are they really a justification for all of this? What this move did to deserve being SE beta K on sc4 and now brought back as 1K for sc5, I'll never know.
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Yeah SE beta K was basically this move but with Raph kicking with his left foot. SE beta took long to enter anyway; therefore barely anyone used that move. I guess they wanted to give Raph some of his old moves back (1K was 4K in SC2) but unfortunately, they nerfed the move without much justification.
 
Real_Bojack said:
Are you sure 4A+B was NC back in 2? I don't think Raph had a single 2 hit NC except 6BB back in 2, maybe AE hop B{B} would work.
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BB was NC lol. You are partially right that he had very few NCs back then. I can't test it since I don't have SC2 anymore but never mind, I don't think 4A+B was NC...lol I have a lot of false memories of SC2. The other thing I do remember was that Raph had blue eyes and was more handsome back them (at least to me).
 
Fendante said:
How was 22*88A+B weird lol? I miss the SC2 version (4A+B) of that move when it was NC instead of NCC in 3.
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I have a problem with moves that are only combo filler, and that's pretty much what it is, at least in SC3.

Fendante said:
Actually I don't think you can get the theoretical combo you stated unless they give 4A a new stun animation that doesn't make them crumple as quickly.
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It is a mystery.
 
Fendante said:
BB was NC lol. You are partially right that he had very few NCs back then. I can't test it since I don't have SC2 anymore but never mind, I don't think 4A+B was NC...lol I have a lot of false memories of SC2. The other thing I do remember was that Raph had blue eyes and was more handsome back them (at least to me).
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I forgot old BB. I wish we still had it. It was good to more safely harass people on the floor. In fact, Raph used to be great at hitting people on the floor.
 
Removed 11BB. Not sure why I didn't like the move. It's his safest low and also one of his fastest.
 
Real_Bojack said:
I forgot old BB. I wish we still had it. It was good to more safely harass people on the floor. In fact, Raph used to be great at hitting people on the floor.
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Female characters usually have better okizeme than male characters; Raph was average at oki even in SC4, but now, not so much. Lol guess that should go into our list for improvements (not trying to sound greedy namco).

SC2 BB tracked well and hit grounded but I would argue against returning it. Otherwise it would transition into "old school" BB dependent Raph again. 3B is a decent replacement for his main move for offense and punishment. Just give 3B a wider hitbox with SC4 pushback on block and make BBB i15 and realign on the second hit.

Delloso said:
Removed 11BB. Not sure why I didn't like the move. It's his safest low and also one of his fastest.
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Are you saying you would like 11BB removed? If I understand you correctly, I would concur. 1B feels out of place as a super slow neutral move. It feels more natural as 11B, a safe whiff punisher. 11BB should not go back to 1BB though. I would want 1B to be his SC2 3B. 11BB can go somewhere, like 2A+BB maybe lol.
 
Fendante said:
Are you saying you would like 11BB removed? If I understand you correctly, I would concur. 1B feels out of place as a super slow neutral move. It feels more natural as 11B, a safe whiff punisher. 11BB should not go back to 1BB though. I would want 1B to be his SC2 3B. 11BB can go somewhere, like 2A+BB maybe lol.
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No, I just removed it from my list lol. It's actually a good move and I'm not sure why I included it here before.
 
Fendante said:
SC2 BB tracked well and hit grounded but I would argue against returning it. Otherwise it would transition into "old school" BB dependent Raph again.
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Well, we could have both worlds by giving him SC2 BB, but making 2B into a 2BBB where the 1st hit will leave you FC if you don't do the rest of the string................. this will likely never happen though.
 
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