Viola General Matchup Discussion

RumbleRosesBOSS said:
Honestly I was thinkin 8-2 his favor. Not only can he zone her out but even when she gets in he can shut her down. She has to resort to grabs which also sucks because she does not have the greatest grab range.
Click to expand...

Nah, I realize, as long as you can JG some of his abuseable stuff, like with most characters, a lot of his stuff can be dealt with. 22b is still stupid, but, if he whiffs or you JG, he's losing halflife. But biggest problem in the match is that he can backdash something. A+B isn't really a problem to me because, if you bait it, once again, he's losing halflife. His backdash and her inability to punish anything makes it a hard matchup...but Viola's playstyle makes the match (and most of her matches) much more dynamic than "he does z and I do x."

I'd say 6.5 in his favor...if no fractions, then 6/4.
 
Still can't beat Nightmare.....I've been looking for a guide everywhere googlin' shit, youtube and I've seen a few points made here and there but I what I really want is a some step by step telling me how to deal with him when he's rushing at me constantly. Maybe I'm not just searching hard enough.
 
yuna359 said:
Still can't beat Nightmare.....I've been looking for a guide everywhere googlin' shit, youtube and I've seen a few points made here and there but I what I really want is a some step by step telling me how to deal with him when he's rushing at me constantly. Maybe I'm not just searching hard enough.
Click to expand...



TBH im a lousy Knightmare matchup my self.... but... few things i learned from fighting KNightys that help me ....are...

8a+b....its great at LONG range against Knighty,,, lots of his long range moves are high, which then 8A+B TC.. so u win


uhm.... 2a after all his grim strides..... basic character thing i guess....

fear the 6B+K, or in other words dont 6B+K nightmare... maybe its just me and iv gaind a phobia from getting CEd on a 6b+K. but still... just Dont... or atleast watch his meter carefully.....

most important thing against nightmares is spacing.... Keep you mother fucking distance....let him come to you!!!! from experience, running at a nightmare just got me killed.... but if he runs at me... i get killed less... so... ya try that i guess..

rushdowns giving u trouble....like i said, keep ur distance... it will slow nightmare down use your orb recalls... 6A+B, B+k, 2B+k, 6ab... nvr bbb and aab.... thats free damage for nightmare...actually thats free damage for all characters...except hilde..
 
jwdinkc said:
Her main quickstep/sidestep moves that I use are ORB 22_88A+B (into 66A+BB) and SET 22_88AB(cancel into SET 6B+K or wait a second longer for ORB 6B+K). But if you use either too soon she'll move back into the line of attack, so you have to make sure you're clear before you do either.
Click to expand...
Thanks guys
Ikuwayo said:
33B, 11A (BE), 11B, 33A... all of them are very nice.

Also 2A > Natsu.
Click to expand...
 
I'm wondering if we should revise the way we view some matchups... With the Tokido Combo, any mistake that can be punished by 3b can potentially lead to 200 damage against big characters if Viola has two meters (not to mention she gains one of those back).

EDIT: I actually found a decent flaw with the Tokido combo that makes it much harder to land. At the same time, ignorance of that can allow the combo to land on every character. Have to get ready.

I planned on saying what the flaw is and, no doubt, lots of people who bitch about Viola probably don't read this topic. Still, if they see that combo pulled off on a big screen, they'll no doubt be calling broken. Basically, what I'm getting at is, if people don't want me to say my findings, I won't...because people will bitch either way.

EDIT2: It's actually quite funny because, in SC4, I often felt that lots of players resorted to gimmicks and ignorance instead of solid play to quickly win matches (while I also felt that Setsuka had 0 gimmicks). Now, I'm playing a character who can end a round on a gimmick! Funny how the tables turn sometimes.

Still, regardless of what you guys think we should do with the knowledge, I want to test it more when I get home before I post anything just to be sure.
 
I've been keeping tabs lately and I seem to have the most trouble with NM, Hilde, A Pat, and Mitsu. In fact I get bodied by any advanced mitsu all the time, he hurts so bad and he keeps me at the "You can't do crap" range. A Pat just seems to outpoke me all the time, Hilde outranges me and runs away and NM is freakin NM. Those are my biggest headaches at this point in time.
 
Lost Providence - just read your last post, no no sir, keep posting information. I try to take it in. If something happens to be wrong or not work out, I ask or provide constructive feedback. I've scanned this thread so far and it's proving pretty useful. I've noticed lately as well that I've been having a LOT more trouble playing as her than leixia. Dunno what changed but I'm trying to rectify that, she is after all my main.
 
All right. Just got home and tested over all of this.

Basically, the Tokido combo **Opener** --> AAB Juggle ---> 6A+B --> 2B+K BE --> 6B+K --> 66A --> AAB --> 66B --> 66A+B will always work against big characters for an average of about 135 damage. Of course, you can also extend this a little further with 2A+B instead of your signature ender (taking a little more damage and/or the mixup).

You can also use 2A+B instead of 6A+B but it does only about 107 damage...but it works against a wider variety of character (quite possibly all...but the damage isn't worth it...only the flashiness and perhaps blow to one's pride).

As for replacing the 66A after the 6B+K with a single B, it can work...as the only direction they can reliable air control out of that is to their left. Still, it is air controllable.

As for looping it (which is what Tokido did to Daishi in the vid, basically), it will only work is they try to tech after the 6A+B. Still, if they do attempt to tech (which most people do at this point because they don't believe in the power of Viola players' ability to land the combo), not only does it loop, but it then works against all of the characters. The loop damage hits for about an average of 200 damage. Still, if they don't attempt to tech, looping it is impossible (they'll start to fall after the second 66A and aab will not relaunch).

I'm not one to prey one someone's ignorance, but this is definitely round-ending information if you're opponent is oblivious to it, so, for you guys, I wouldn't be afraid to exploit it (hell, I might even still tech vs. another Viola after 6A+B). Not only does it do an absurd amount of damage, but, though it takes 2 meters, if you loop it, it regains one of the meters lost.

Of course, this could probably stand to go to the combo discussion thread but I wanted to put it a place that I know just about every Viola player visits (I know I don't visit the combo discussion thread).
 
Interesting, I'll try all that out in training tomorrow, make sure I have it down in the event I need to pull it outta my bag of tricks
 
Does anyone have any particular difficulty fighting Voldo? I know Voldo has a really weird hit box and a ton of evasive maneuvers and this is what i find most bothersome in the match up. He has so many moves with advancing steps, and side steps, and auto techs, and it feels like whenever i have an opportunity to punish he is just out of range or he uses some attack to get out of my 6B+K set ups.

Also his back turned B+K gives me trouble. It's not just the move itself, it's how it plays off of the mix ups he gains from being in back turned stance. He has so many options from this stance and it seems like viola doesnt have much to deal with it, the GI in particular shutting down her most damaging attacks.
 
im not gana lie, voldo is a tricky match, personnaly im terrible against voldo...... but iv learned a few things..... first thing is....do not ever underestimate his chains... make sure to block the full length of his chains... voldo tends to have many multi hiting moves, which if you become hasty and want to att, u surlly will eat a mouth full of voldo..

also take advantage of Violas orb stance, she gains an extra Charecter length in reach, which against voldo makes the match up closer in your favor as voldo is more of a close range, while viola in Orb stance is actually fairly close to mid range plus she gains tons of push back with her orb based moves if you use the right moves.....

try to minimaize violas 6b+k shenannigans, because your right, voldo has many TS and TC that will allow him to evade effectivly those forced mix ups, concentrate on playing solid....

Violas not a really strong punish, no matter what the matchup is, in voldos case...... 3a, 2a are you friends, yes he does have a wierd hit box, and even worse many voldos like to be douch bags and do his crawl stance..... 2a and 3a will effectivly help u controll the situation.....


besides that, i dont really have all that much knowledge on voldos matchup, to my best knowledge the best thing you can do is be PATIENT, Wait for an Oppurtinity
 
LostProvidence said:
All right. Just got home and tested over all of this.

Basically, the Tokido combo **Opener** --> AAB Juggle ---> 6A+B --> 2B+K BE --> 6B+K --> 66A --> AAB --> 66B --> 66A+B will always work against big characters for an average of about 135 damage. Of course, you can also extend this a little further with 2A+B instead of your signature ender (taking a little more damage and/or the mixup).

You can also use 2A+B instead of 6A+B but it does only about 107 damage...but it works against a wider variety of character (quite possibly all...but the damage isn't worth it...only the flashiness and perhaps blow to one's pride).

As for replacing the 66A after the 6B+K with a single B, it can work...as the only direction they can reliable air control out of that is to their left. Still, it is air controllable.

As for looping it (which is what Tokido did to Daishi in the vid, basically), it will only work is they try to tech after the 6A+B. Still, if they do attempt to tech (which most people do at this point because they don't believe in the power of Viola players' ability to land the combo), not only does it loop, but it then works against all of the characters. The loop damage hits for about an average of 200 damage. Still, if they don't attempt to tech, looping it is impossible (they'll start to fall after the second 66A and aab will not relaunch).

I'm not one to prey one someone's ignorance, but this is definitely round-ending information if you're opponent is oblivious to it, so, for you guys, I wouldn't be afraid to exploit it (hell, I might even still tech vs. another Viola after 6A+B). Not only does it do an absurd amount of damage, but, though it takes 2 meters, if you loop it, it regains one of the meters lost.

Of course, this could probably stand to go to the combo discussion thread but I wanted to put it a place that I know just about every Viola player visits (I know I don't visit the combo discussion thread).
Click to expand...

This does not onlyt apply for the Tokido combo. In general you can't do the same ground stun/slide twice. You CAN do extend the combo with a 6A+B and a 2A+B but not with two 2A+Bs or two 6A+Bs. An ukemi resets the combo and also makes the combo do more damage, so if you see them ukemi, go for another 6A+B! If not, you can either end the combo or extend if for even more (guaranteed) damage with 2A+B (but since 2A+B stuns, it will do less damage than a 6A+B loop).

EDIT: I stand corrected. Dont try extending it at all, it won't work. That said it still does around 140 damage so I can't complain :P

The danger of not teching the 6A+B is that the Viola player actually may fuck up the 6A+B. 6A+B is pretty hard to do consistently and occasionally, the Viola can make a mistake. In that case the foe can ukemi to avoid a whopping 60+ damage. Viola would also have wasted a precious bar of meter and she wont be able to gain some of it back with her combo. So, if the opponent never techs in fear of the loop... it would make things easier and let mistakes go unnoticed.

At top level play, this shouldn't account for anything since the top player should ideally have practiced enough to do it perfectly on a consistent basis. Yet, for some reason, I have rarely seen a top player extend with 6A+B (but I have seen 2A+B more than once). Then again, I haven't seen many vids of top Viola's either...
 
LostProvidence said:
All right. Just got home and tested over all of this.

Basically, the Tokido combo ... <snip>
Click to expand...

I was douching around with this in training and put a much less informed thing up in combo discussion. The teching thing is interesting, I never considered testing this with tech off because whenever I do 6A+B stuff I always assume there will be left-tech attempts. I figured there had to be -something- to get out of looping that because you can really full-life someone with it. Also I did not notice ability to air-controll out of it from just using a B instead of 66A, just that you had to space differently and it usually wouldn't work if you had a 2-hit 6[a+b]

Actually if you cane time it so that the 6[A+B] is orb-hit-only it seems to leave them spaced so it will even work on small characters.
 
Ikuwayo said:
Snip
Click to expand...

This is somewhat wrong.

The 6A+B ground stun is Viola's exception to the rule. She can repeat this ground stun several times in one combo. In certain combo conditions which we won't go over for now - she can also get two 2A+B ground stuns. But yes, the 6A+B stun, so long as you timed it right, cannot be teched and can be done repeatedly in combo.

Not only that, but Tokido's loop can be extended further if they DO try to tech it, even if they can't (because you timed it correctly).
 
I seem to have a little bit (or a lot ) of trouble with Seig and Nightmare. They seem to play defense and stay at a range. For Seig's moves i sometimes use 4B+K but i still have trouble ;(
And maybe a little of Patroklos.
 
Siegfried doesn't really bother me and I don't know the input for most of his moves, so I can't be a huge help, but I almost always step after :3::B:, because normally they go for :K: or :B: rather than :A:, which gets you a free throw or :3::B: combo. Also, when he does that big low vertical stab that puts him in stance (probably :1::B:), remember never to attack after blocking it if he has meter, or you'll eat a ton of damage from his rush forward brave edge attack. This move is unsafe on block as well, so you can just punish it after. If he doesn't have meter, however, WR :B: will often score a lovely counterhit on him. Overall I don't think he actually has a particularly good matchup against Viola.

Nightmare I know a little more. He's better than Sieg at pushing us back and whiff-punishing, so the matchup is definitely a good one for him. You need to carefully gauge the player's habits to win. When he uses a move that goes into Night Side Stance, you have a few options - if you're in range, :3::B: will beat out :K: and most of his slower options, but :bA: will dodge it and hit you. :bA:, however, is -21 (I think?) on block, so you'll be able to punish it with :8::A+B:. As a rule, Nightmare players will follow :3::(B): with :bA: and most other NSS transitions with :K:.

His :A+B: stuffs most of our moves, but there are ways to deal with it. You can again just block and punish, but trying to do this will often just get you playing overly defensively - not a place Viola wants to be. It's better, I find, to attack with lows and :6::6::B: more often, both of which beat :A+B:. Throws also deal with :A+B: nicely.

Grim Stride is actually quite easy to deal with. Usually Nightmare players will carry on after GS :B: is blocked and try to use GS :A: to GI any counterattacks. This move doesn't GI lows, plus you can throw or get a free :CE:. You can even just step back and make him whiff.

Finally, :2::(K): when you're on the ground is annoying if your default is to just get up immediately as you need very quick reactions to jump it. However, it misses if you roll in any direction, or you can do a WS attack for a counterhit.
 
I'm pretty terrible with GI and JG (the latter just seems impossible to me). That does remind me, though, that you can duck the second hit of his GS :K: BE rather than block it and be put at negative.
 
[notice]I have re-opened this thread because of general user request. You are allowed to talk about matchups in general here but any data you have that you think would be helpful to others please post in the respected characters matchup thread. Thank you -Rhythm [/notice]
 
Does anyone have any general or even Viola-specific tips for fighting Z.W.E.I.? I find myself loosing even to people with as low as a 50% win rating because I have absolutely no idea how to fight him. All I know is that you should attack after :3::3::B: BE because E.I.N. takes ages to come out and whatever you want to do is basically free.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back