Yoshimitsu Matchup Discussion

Senzait said:
Some corrections:
Xiba doesn't have a 6A, B. If you meant 6A,K its safe unless you interrupt the second hit.
3{B} is only punishable by i8 moves. Otherwise you can get hit by REM A. (Unless 3B TC's the high, doubt it, but ill just have to test that when I get home)
3BK is safe. You probably meant you had to duck the second hit and punish but without doing that there is nothing Yoshi can punish it with.
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Thanks! I do have to make some changes there!! I wrote that first one out by hand and it's was messy....
6B and 6A follow ups and avoided by 4B+K for 3B combo and 6A, K can be interrupted by 2A
3{B} options are cut off by 6B and A+K except at max when where A+K missed and A hits.
3B,K can but interrupted by A+K and send Xiba flying.

Thanks again!

***post patch even B,B cuts down everything from 3{B}...
 
Can the experts review the very first post I have and edit it to their liking? Pocky Yoshi doesn't want this thread dead.
 
Pocky-Yoshi said:
Can the experts review the very first post I have and edit it to their liking? Pocky Yoshi doesn't want this thread dead.
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Looks good. Did you edit with Oboro and Heaton's comments? I had a few or LX myself. Otherwise we'll get around to getting a nice comprehensive first post when we've labbed all our opponents. Nice work!
 
mkl said:
Looks good. Did you edit with Oboro and Heaton's comments? I had a few or LX myself. Otherwise we'll get around to getting a nice comprehensive first post when we've labbed all our opponents. Nice work!
Click to expand...

All I care about is anyone's input on their anti study and I'll just drop in their findings under the appropriate character. Pocky Yoshi would help, but he doesn't have SCV atm.
 
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I edited Xiba's stuff after my typos were pointed out. Gonna have to go through a bit again though post patch cause a couple things have changed for Lei and him. I edited Asta's because you can no longer step his CE to his right...boo... I just posted Sieg's stuff and am gonna start Maxi next cause his strings are a must to know. I've been super sick so I was slack finishing up Sieg.
 
I was playing vs. a Raph last night (online, so maybe to be taken with a grain of salt), but at least once it looked like I couldn't punish his 22B with 6K...maybe I was late on the punish, but every other time that round I had gotten it...

vs. Raph is really the one matchup that's killing me lately. He's just a death by a thousand stabs. His combo potential's been mostly erased with the patch, but the problem is just moving in on him, or moving period, since none of Yoshi's pokes can outrange him, so it's just bit by bit with me not being able to make any headway. []
 
JT_the_Ninja said:
I was playing vs. a Raph last night (online, so maybe to be taken with a grain of salt), but at least once it looked like I couldn't punish his 22B with 6K...maybe I was late on the punish, but every other time that round I had gotten it...

vs. Raph is really the one matchup that's killing me lately. He's just a death by a thousand stabs. His combo potential's been mostly erased with the patch, but the problem is just moving in on him, or moving period, since none of Yoshi's pokes can outrange him, so it's just bit by bit with me not being able to make any headway. []
Click to expand...

Corrected and general Raph punishment improved. Added CE opportunities and a couple tweaks. Thanks for the heads up on the 22B. Don't know what I was thinking haha!!
 
Well I mean, by the numbers, isn't it at least -16 on block? Plus nerf from patch? You'd think it'd still be punishable...maybe I was just late, or the online betrayed me. []
 
Nah it's safe. My sketchy hand writing led me astray again... Which is my I use my iPhone to jot it all down now haha!! It's only -10 if I remember correctly.
 
Hrm...so my being able to punish 22B a couple times in that match was just a fluke then, or online being itself. Okay, good to know. []
 
Vs Nightmare

-CE stuff as always is range dependant so check it out and get a feel for it.

A,A,B- can be interrupted with MCF at any point. 214 A will evade and punish 2nd A after the first is blocked.
A,2A- 6K/ CE. evade 2nd hit with FLEA {B} or FLEA K
A,2A,A-6B/CE/6K (close only) FLEA {B} or FLEA K will evade and punish 2nd hit and interrupt 3rd for launch.
6A- 6K
3A/3A, A-CE/ 3B(can whiff from range)
3A,2A- CE/6K. FLEA {B} or FLEA K can evade and launch punish 2nd hit.
FC2A/2A- 6B/ MCF for hilarity as Yoshi looks him in the eye and punches him in the face!
1A-CE/6K. FLEA {B} or FLEA K will evade and launch punish. All catch GS transition as well.
B,B- step to NMs right and punish
6B-A,A
6{B}-3B/CE cuts down stance options
3B-6K/CE
3{B}-FC 3K beats all options. Max range ads timing variable.
1B-CE/ 6B (whiffs at range) FLEA B or FLEA K evades and launch punishes!
4B, B- B, B. 4B+K evades 2nd hit for launch. Can also step to NM's left but timing can be strict. Evasion eliminates potential for stance options.
2K- CE(fast input)/6B/6K (close)
BT FC K/FC K/1K- 6B
4K-3K
4K, K- can duck and punish 2nd or step and punish to NMs right
A+B- CE/ 3B combo
2A+B- 6K/CE
2B+K- 2A
FC3B- 3K/CE
WS K-6K/ CE
WS B- 3B/ CE
WS {B}- 2A beats all options but NSS aB will cause a double whiff from which you recover much faster and can 3B or CE NM while he recovers. 3B can beat all options but the timing to TC NSS K is tight.
22A,A- CE. A+K can deflect 2nd hit if 1st is blocked. 6K if left close
22A, A6- can cut all options if read early with even 3B combo or CE
33B-3B combo/CE
33{B}-CE/2A cuts all options. 3B cuts all options but trades with GS K in Yoshi's favour. 6K beats all options but whiffs if NM does not attack from GS
22B-CE / 6B if left close
66K-6K/CE
66K6- CE/2A cuts all options. 6K beats any attack but whiffs if NM doesn't attack out of GS
44K- if stepped 22A+B punishes
GS A- 6K/ CE
GS K- 3B combo/ CE
NSS B- CE/6K (will whiff max distance)
NSS aB- 6K/CE
NSS K- 6K/ CE
NSS A+B- B, B
33B BE-3B/ CE can also step 2nd hit to NM right for slightly more damaging options.
 
I need some help with Viola. Specifically, I'm getting trashed by 3B and 44A BE. 44A can be A+K'd but not on wake-up. On block, I have no idea what to do since it leads to what looks like an un-escapable mix-up.

MED A+B works on the ball, but the revenge animation will only be triggered.... at a certain distance, I think? Algol bubbles, Viola balls, ZWEI, etc all have weird GI properties against A+K and can trigger the revenge only in certain situations. Nothing really new or surprising, but I thought it was worth mentioning.

Viola's 3B seems to tech-duck at.... frame 0 or something. I can never hit that stupid thing which reduces me to trying to use nothing but mids of which.... iMCF and 44A aren't the best. Maybe I should 2K/2A spam to try to break them out of 3B so much? I'm not having much luck connecting 6B poke with a step->3B Viola. Ideas would be helpful.

I also can't hit Viola with DNK -> 3B or 22K -> CE which I completely blame on my buddies connection, but if anyone knows otherwise.... let me know.

Viola's 44A spammed on 5th round just causes me to freeze up and die miserably.
 
Vs Mitsurugi

1A- 6K/CE 6K also cuts off 1A, B
4A6- CE/ 3B beats all options. MIST A+B will revenge 3B it but the follow up can be stepped to Mitsu's right for 22K combo.
B,B6- CE/ 3B beats all options. MIST A+B will revenge 3B it but the follow up can be stepped to Mitsu's right for 22K combo.
bA- 3B/CE
6B2 non JF- 2A close
3B- 6K/CE
kB- 6K/CE
2K,B ON HIT- 6K/ CE
2K,B ON BLOCK- 3B/CE
2K,B6 HIT OR BLOCK- CE/3B beats all options. On hit MIST A+B will revenge 3B it but the follow up can be stepped to Mitsu's right for 22K combo.
BT 2K/FC K/1K- 6B
4K- A,A
4K,B- Yoshi can evade B with 4B+K for A,A
B+K- CE/ 6K close? 6B
FC 1B,B- CE or 3B interrupt 2nd hit
11A- CE/ 6B
44A- B,B
66B- A,A/ 2A. 2A punishes and cuts off delayed second B
66B,B- 3B/CE. A+K interrupts 2nd hit.
11B,A,B- Can pop duck 2nd hit and punish with 3B. Will also cut off third hit. If 1st and 2nd hits connect 3rd can be stepped to Mitsu's right for 3B
11B,A6- CE/ 3B beats all options. MIST A+B will revenge 3B it but the follow up can be stepped to Mitsu's right for 22K combo.
236B- 6K/CE
MIST B,B+K- can step 2nd hit to Mitsu's left and launch with 3B
MIST B,B,B- If first hit is JG then next can be ducked and punished.
3B BE- 2nd hit can be stepped either side for 3B/CE or 22K done early
2K BE- CE/ 3B
236B BE- 6K/ CE
MIST B BE- 2nd hit easily stepped for 22K combo or CE
CE- 4K,B/ CE
 
VS Ivy

6A,K/{A}/ A,A- 2nd hit and be avoided and punished with 214 A quite late.
6{A}- CE/ 3B medium to close range
3{A}- CE/ 3B
1A- CE/FC B. If reacted to can evade easily and punish with FLEA K
214A- can duck and punish with anything if they are dumb enough to use it...
{B}- 2nd hit easily stepped and punished with 22K combo/ CE
bK- CE/ 6K
6B8- CE/3B
6B8, K- If predicted can evade and punish K with FLEA K
6{B}8- If 1st hit is JG can punish 2nd with 4K,B from medium distance
214B- B,B close
K,B,K- not that anyone is going to be dumb enough to use it, if you block the knee just 3B to cut off the rest of the string
BT 2K/FC K/2K- FC B
22K/1K- 4K,B. Can be evaded and punished with FLEA {B}_K
A+B, A- 2nd hit can can't be jumped but can be avoided with jumping attacks.
6A+B- can be evaded with FLEA 6A+B/FLEA {K}/ 8A in situations that it cannot be backed out of. Also easily interrupted with 3B
2A+B- MCF
1A+B- FC A. Can be evaded and punish with FLEA K
8A+B- CE/ 6K
8A+B, B- 4K, B
4A+B- after 2nd hit is blocked 3rd whiffs and you can interrupt with 6K
4A+B,B- 2nd hit stepped easier to Ivy's left for 22K or other punishment of choice.
4B+K- easily stepped and cancel fakes are very slow coming out.
FC {B}, B- 2nd hit whiffs and allows 3B/ CE
WS {A}- CE/ 3B
WS A+B,A- can duck 3rd hit and punish. Can quickly "pop" duck it and 3B
WS B+K- 6B close
66 {A}- can A+K 2nd hit
22A- A,A
11A- Can FLEA K_{B} to avoid and punish. FLEA {B} works from further distance.
44{A}- 3B close
22{B} series- CE/ 6K
44B,B,B- 4B+K can avoid 2nd hit and allows 3B punish
44K- FC B
44A+B- stepped to Ivy's right for 22K punish
44{A+B}- must be stepped further to Ivy's right
44B+K- 3B/CE
44B+K,B- step to Ivy's right and punish
9B- B,B
8B- K close
1bA+B+K- can step 2nd hit to Ivy's left if done early
 
Indeed. For every anti post he makes, Pocky Yoshi puts it on the first post of this thread. Anyways, noob question: How do you do these anti lists? Do you cycle through the moveset and test which moves punish which? Pocky Yoshi wishes to lend a hand to help Oboro.
 
Yeah I go through and do the move I want to find ways around and record inputs with them guarding immediately after and then try to punish and or evade and punish. Stuff like that.
 
Since Pocky is updating his first post so well this is getting stickied. Thanks for your work Oboro.

I'd say for LX: 22K/22kA are not real mixups anymore since K doesn't knock down anymore. I'll eat the K any day of the week. Pre-patch I was just 8King on wakeup against LX's that were really reliant to use this on wakeup and it would stuff the mixup entirely (you can AC after the first hit of the kA series and you'll jump the K). The best option is always to see it first and just cut it off with a B though.
 
Thanks mkl. As for the errors? I don't mind experts editing what is false so any Yoshi seeking help here, will feel better. Perfection is a must haha.

For now, I'll try my hand at anti stuff. It won't be as polished as Oboro, but I'll try to show love to help out. Gonna try to do Pyrrha Omega.
 
Pardon the rude noob post, but I'm currently trying to do Vs Omega. I want make sure I'm doing this right, after you block for instance Omega's 6A, do you attack after that? Is that punishing? Or do I set the dummy to do 6A first and have it block after the second? I have her spamming 6A constantly.

Right now, all I know is 214A has a built in TC and interrupts 6A. Otherwise, 2B, 2A, 3K, 6K, 6B, 3A, BB, AA are the typical pokes to use after you block Omega's 6A. Pocky Yoshi needs thine assistance! *cries*
 
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