Yoshimitsu Matchup Discussion

Ugh, shame about the BE. I forgot to test it, it doesn't look like it should track any better than SCH K. Spent a while vs the CPU working on using 99B in response to SCH, will just have to see if I can remember to do it in a match :)
 
Frostheart said:
Thanks for all the finds Pocky/Oboro! Lifesaver, these.

For any vertical CE (Pyrrha, Maxi etc), you can actually 4B+K during the CE animation. You'll hear Yoshimitsu laugh at the same time as Pyrrha goes "I can't!" while the animation is still going on and then you can proceed to laugh yourself while you get a free back throw. Just don't try to buffer something like 3B after 4B+K before the animation is over or the system will read it as 4B+KBBBBB and you'll end up spinning away 1/3 your hp!
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I still get hit when I try this, though I do hear the laugh.
 
Signia said:
I still get hit when I try this, though I do hear the laugh.
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If you try it in training mode at a certain distance it will work. It also almost always puts Aeon off axis and causes him to spit fire the wrong way.
 
mkl said:
If you try it in training mode at a certain distance it will work. It also almost always puts Aeon off axis and causes him to spit fire the wrong way.
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Might as well list some other uses of 4B+K that I've found:

Steps Ivy's 22B BE and 1BB BE on block

Easy-mode steps the Viola's 44A BE after blocking the first two hits, or if you want to take a big risk, do it after the first hit... if they delay the second hit you'll get guaranteed punishment after sidestepping it. But if they don't delay it you eat big damage.
 
Right, some Tira stuff:

Big Punishes:
JS 33_66_99A, A - 3B/CE
CE - 3B/CE if close enough, 4K,B otherwise.
JS 2A,B - 3B punishes just the same as for the complete string (below). Can JG the second hit if you blocked the first for 3B.
JS 2A,B,A+B - The A+B aGI doesn’t catch 3B/CE, so interrupt before A+B with 3B/CE. Can also 4B+K after the first hit for 3B. Can JG the second hit if you blocked the first for 3B.

Other Stuff:
1A - 2A/iMCF. Better avoiding it with FLE B, 8K etc.
JS 4A - B,B
JS 2A - 6K, but risky as she can do 2A, B.
JS 1K - 6K
GS 1K - FC 3K (6K will whiff, as her GS 3K TCs).
236K - FC 3K
4B+K,B - iMCF interrupts, or can sidestep second hit
FC K - 2A
GS 3A - B, B
GS 3A,A - A, A. Can JG the last hit (or last 2) for 3B. Can A+K in between the 1st and 2nd hit and then 3B (but bear in mind she doesn’t have to input the second A which means your A+K will whiff). This A+K also catches the BE version, which is otherwise unpunishable.
GS 3B/GS 33_99B - B,B
JS 11_77B - FC B
JS 11_44_77A, A - A,A
JS 11_44_77A, 2A - 6K if close
236K BE - iMCF
Updraft A - A,A
Updraft K - B,B
 
Are there any answers for Viola? She is so frustrating. I try stepping but I always manage to get hit by something. I can't seem to get a combo off or a hit for that matter.
 
Gabedamien said:
It won’t work multiple times, but as a hail mary 9B+K K can get in with some good reading or luck, especially since it TJs. Most of the options already listed are better, but random 9B+K will surprise a lot of people the first time. I especially love 9B+K (K) > DGF K DNK 3B, works well against turtles.
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I've caught many people by surprise by using 9B+K K as an opening move. Various Natsu's come to mind. NM and Sig not so much.
 
XxAnEpicGamerxX said:
Has Someone Made A Top 10 Moves List?
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You really need more than 10 moves with this character. This is pretty much all I use though, roughly in order of frequency. I didn't list moves that I just use in combos or tech traps, like 9A+BG.

1. :2::aB: - iMCF, the best move ever

2. :2::K: - chips away at your opponent, and starts your pressure.

3. :2::B: - longest range safe mid poke at i16, make sure you space this attack at tip

4. FC :3::K: - tracking, long range, 40 damage low when you followup with RCC 3B. Godlike but really unsafe.

5. :3::3::B::B+K: - heavily delayable string that either provides a mixup between finishing the string or ending it. If they always wait for the string to end then you can just 33B for a risk-free mid. Do your best to CH confirm 33B, since launching them and doing a:B+K for the unblockable trap is much better than just finishing the string. Oh yeah and the move step-TCs. Be sure to run forward and do it too, so it looks like 66B. 33B and 66B are + on hit in this game unlike SCIV which fucks with a lot of people.

6. :3::B: - powerful mid, whiff punisher, and -17 block/JG punisher leading to insane damage setups on hit

7. :A::A: - standard fast tracking interrupt and -12 punisher

8. :B::B: - standard fast mid, single B is good too

9. throws - always essential but especially for Yoshi

10. :4::B: - safe mid, leads to iMCF, and pressures their guard meter while only being -2.

11. :3::K: - covers a LOT of options at advantage but has low reward: it catches most step, hits TCs, jumpers, and is fast enough to interrupt anything at +4

12. :6::K: - duck-punish and -15 to -16 punisher. Hit confirm for the second K if they jump, it does 99 damage total and is not ACable. Great for catching step by the wall, as the 130 damage you get is worth the risk of punishment

13. :2::G: :4::K::B: - 2G is to fake the iFC 3K if they can react to you crouching or watch Yoshi's flag to block iFC 3Ks.

14. :6::B: - i13 fast mid poke that actually leaves you in range to continue uninterruptable offense, unlike BB

15. :4::A: series - catch step and backstep kinda, and is a great gap-closer. varying the number of spins you do can mess with their reaction time so you can iMCF them on block. It's plus on hit in this game where it was minus on hit in SCIV and practically useless which fucks with just about everybody.

16. :3::A: :BE: - CH-confirmable step catcher for big damage. Waiting to see the CH is best but you can try delaying it and see if they eat the second hit and get launched. Once they wait for the delay window to end, you can start CH fishing with 3A and you may even be able to continue pressure

17. :6::6::A: :BE: - dangerous to throw out if they know how to deal with it, but a longer ranged tracking mid CH tool that leads to big damage if you can land the iMCF after. Or just CE if you have the spare meter

18. :2::1::4::A: - TCs almost immediately and sidesteps really linear moves

19. :8::K: - TJs almost immediately, beating 2A and 2K which will beat 214A

20. :3::3::A+B: - best whiff punisher for those really big whiffs, though unreliable up close (it whiffs a lot). The 33 version combos in iMCF -- it's hard but well worth it

21. :4::4:::bB: - strongest backstep catcher, since on CH it combos into iMCF. If they try backstepping at -4 higher they'll get CH for either iMCF or the unblockable setup if they're too far away.

22. DGF :6::A+B: ~ mixups - if they don't know how to deal with this, abuse it

23. :CE: - great whiff punisher

24. :4::4::A: - sometimes you need a safe tracking mid with some range, like against Natsu, who can punish your other tracking mids and 22A anything else. At -6 you have plenty of options on block.

Optional moves:

25. 6A - stops step and leaves you at -4 on block which is ok I guess. The only tracking way to start an iMCF setup on block, though -4 means you can be interrupted.
26. a:B+K - faster and safer way to stop jumpers and catch step kinda. If it hits a jumper it sets up the UB setup.
27. 22B - steps and TCs and is pretty safe on block considering it's huge pushback. It also has a huge reward for hitting. Only problem is this move whiffs a lot when you sidestep something.
28. 44BA - can be stopped early to mess with their reaction time, or you can do the whole thing on block and do a ton on guard damage really safely. It pushes back on the last hit and is -8 and crushes in 8 blocks.
29. FC 1K:K:K:K:K - still at least -16 when guarded but will ringout a long a distance. It's pretty easy to tell when someone sees they're kinda getting close to the edge and want to just take a step and be safe. But this will catch them. Problem is, if you mess up you're pretty much committed to stopping it early and holding guard. If you mess up on the last hit in the situation I just mentioned, some characters can punish you with a reverse ringout (ZWEI and IVY).
30. 66K - Wallsplats a slightly further distance away than any other move Yoshi has and leads to a full wall combo. Sometimes I just whiff this move on purpose to get in and then use an evade since it's hard to whiff punish.
31. IND stance into mixups at long range - if they can't deal with the mixup, this is a great option to do some damage and get in.
32. 8A - TCs and TJs deceptively early. If blocked you still get SDGF mixups. If they don't know how to deal with that stance, it's a great way to get big damage while using an really good evade to set up into it.

Might as well talk about why I don't like the other moves:
22K - sure, this is 0 on block and if hits you can CE or 3B (but not on a far hit), but it's an incredibly slow linear high. I rarely get it to hit, but I don't use this move anymore.
3B+K - this move's almost identical in properties as 4B except it launches and CH, is 2 frames faster, and is -4 where 4B is -2. They have the same tech trap followups and guard crush the same amount. Since you're never gonna set up a CH for this move, that part doesn't really matter. The extra speed doesn't matter too much when comparing i22 to i24; you're still looking at speeds and ranges that have the same purpose: a safe mid that is usually interruptable or will just get blocked or stepped. You're only going to CH them at like +10 to +12 and who attacks at that disadvantage? The only possible use for 3B+K is beat TC specifically. -2 is much better then -4 on block as well. Seems like 4B is almost strictly better than 3B+K
2A+BB and 1B+K - I guess you can use this as a free mid since it has no pushback? Very little reward on hit though
2A+B FLE B - gimmicky but if they fall for it well why not
22A - everyone can read this low, and there are better options for step TC.
11B - has interesting properties and is very evasive with the step TC, and his mid-hitboxes move back a bit, but the move has horrible properties on hit and block.
9B - 9K is better, but 9B leaves them standing, so if you like that, use this instead. Thing is, 8K tracks really well.
1K - slow as shit and has poor range. It's a safe TC though...
44B+K - this is a really good post-GI mixup by the wall or a way to hit zoning characters for throwing out their safe tracking highs, but it's risky. This a gimmick starter more than anything, with all the stance cancels you can do.
1A series - garbage.
6B BE - while it has more range than iMCF, I have yet to find a consistent use for this move. I still use this one if I have a ton of meter and no way to use it, since it's almost impossible to whiff punish and has such short blockstun that nobody wants to attack after it.
4B+K - highly situational instant sidestep, and there are usually alternatives that don't hurt yourself.
A+K - situationally good too
4A+K - random tekken moves are garbage
WS A - it's there when you want to have 3K's function from crouching
WS B - does more than 20 damage, unlike a lot of Yoshi's moves. Best punisher for -15 where they recover crouch
WS K - can't figure out why anyone would use this move on purpose
FC B - at i14, it's your best 2K punisher
2A - should be in the top 25 moves but I forgot it. I've all but replaced this move with iMCF though. It's dumb how Yoshi's 2A is -7 on block but everyone else's is -6.


Ok that everything? Well as you can see Yoshi has a lot of unique properties on all his moves that allow him to cover more than one option. After practially every move, Yoshi has options on block. Most players won't choose a huge variety of defensive options. If you just watch how your opponent defends and how they like to get their damage, you can choose which moves in your offense and defense that will cover all their preferred options.
 
^awesome :) Would rank A+K and 214A higher actually, spam it a lot against character-specific moves like NM 4K BE, Pyrrha 66B BE, Natsu 66A BE, anticipate Sieg agA etc. Oh yeah, 66A+B, GI-CE, 66A+K/66a+kG needs to be there, and MED A+B aGI and MED 6A+B~K deserve a mention imo
 
Frostheart said:
^awesome :) Would rank A+K and 214A higher actually, spam it a lot against character-specific moves like NM 4K BE, Pyrrha 66B BE, Natsu 66A BE, anticipate Sieg agA etc. Oh yeah, 66A+B, GI-CE, 66A+K/66a+kG needs to be there, and MED A+B aGI and MED 6A+B~K deserve a mention imo
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Oh yeah 66A+K is really good, especially when you know they'll either stand and guard or duck when you run up to them. The cancel is not so good, the recovery is very long and every time I do it I feel like I should have just done the suicide. I think the real purpose of it is to save you if you see them moving. It's actually 66(A+K) and 66A+K, so it might be possible to release holding of the buttons in time if you see that the move will whiff.

I don't like A+K because it's hard to get any reward for landing it. The 8 frame attack is unreliable due it's range. Those move you just list have better options to deal with them. Right now I only use it in the Cervantes matchup when I block a 4B BE. A+K will stop his mixup and he has to delay.

GI CE is really good especially since he gains meter quickly but you might not find the opportunity to use it. It feels almost like Xiba's CE when you land it.

MED A+B aGI I don't find usable. As far as I know the UB is avoidable anyway. How do you get them to hit your aGI? Use MED at mid range where they think they can hit you and then react to their movement?

MED 6A+BK is a great round ender since it does more than 20 damage, has huge range, and leaves Yoshi on the ground where he's hard to punish. I actually use this a lot.

66A+B I use when I have to, and that's when I want to catch backstep at more than +10 and when I want to catch rolls after certain knockdowns.
 
Signia said:
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You're right, I made a mistake lol, it's 66[A+K] or 66[A+K] release before the stab. I do regret not doing it sometimes, but if I'm using it as a round ender, run up to the opponent and the opponent plays dead on the floor, I'll cancel it into BT 2K/B. I actually got my 66[A+K] JG-ed(!) once but it's just a one-time affair. GI 66A+K is perfect when lacking meter for CE as round ender.

Oh I meant 214A against those moves I listed, not A+K. I use A+K specifically against stuff like Cerv's 4B BE options like you mentioned, Xiba's REM options, Asta's double bullrush. Situational usage.

I actually haven't played in a tourney where I haven't used GI-CE at some point lol. I think you played Raphire? It's magic against stuff like Voldo's BS options... basically most mixups.

MED A+B aGI... gimmicky. I usually successfully connect with it when they're not expecting it e.g. flea hop in front of them and then MED A+B. Mostly at close range. MED at mid-range doesn't feel as applicable as it makes people wary of the A+B really, especially if I've just sat down there and not done anything for a couple of seconds. Healing works as a bait for me sometimes, though it's tricky to judge when to stop the heal and MED A+B. A lot of people still don't know to backstep it or to use character-specific punishes like Natsu/Asta air grabs, Hilde's B+K, Raphael's 8A+B etc though. It's pretty much guaranteed if you aGI a jump attack.

I'm still not good at iMCF after 33A+B, so I'm using 66A+B for now. :(

Oh yeah, and 4B+K. Character specific sometimes, very strong against Pat especially, since most of his game is pretty vert. Can be used during CE animation against vertical CE's like Pyrrha's for free back grab (though 22G~22G~22G works too). 4B+K Xiba 6A~K or 6B~K for free back grab too.

bG deserves a mention too :)
 
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