Yoshimitsu stance shenenigans & transitions

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
Are you basing that on frames or are you getting consistently punished for it? I haven't experienced any serious issues with it yet. It's a solid step killer, it knocks down, and it leads to solid wall combos. We really don't have any other fast, solid step killers from neutral. 1A is a poor substitute and 44A and 66A are bit too slow imo.
 

DrDogg

[09] Warrior
It's character dependent as to whether or not it's safe. From max range I can get away with using it against everyone, but I like to use it against the wall where I tend to get punished by AA from faster characters. Of course, that's only for people who know it's punishable. 66A is also -12, but the push back is usually enough to avoid punishment.

I also like using 8_9K from crouch as a pseudo mix-up for FC low attacks. That puts me within punishment range though.

Even at max range, if it's blocked, it shuts down my momentum.
 

HajimeOwari

[11] Champion
AA only? Man, I'll eat AA all day. The trade-off is way too good. Especially considering AA damage is terrible now.
 

Manjitou

[08] Mercenary
2(A+B) into FLE is an instant classic in my book. I would have suggested INT into DGF because it was tricky, but INT is out now ._. . Umm...
FLE 8/2 steps are useful.
FLE K, A+B is a good combo, always has been.
DGF K to 6B+KKKKK..., is a good troll combo xD.
DGF A's are useful, and almost never fails (it hasn't yet for me) to hit somebody when they're behind you.
DGF > SDF traversion is excellent.

MED stuff? I don't even know where to begin.
MED A+B is still around, and still awesome as ever.
MED 6A+B(or was it B+K?),K is the most useful last ditch move ever.
MED B's, K's, and A's teleport Yoshi in front of the opponent and do the according move,
With the Addition of Yoshi's A+K moves in MED, you can do a 1K into 2B+K, A+K and then do a A+B teleport.

Btw...
Never live down Yoshi's pogo (A+B jumps) in FLE.. Their the icing of the cake.

Edit: Feel free to take this down if you feel it's useless. Also, 66A+B into FLE is useful as hell. 44B+K into MED is bauce.
 

Peter_Tran

[08] Mercenary
2(A+B) into FLE is an instant classic in my book. I would have suggested INT into DGF because it was tricky, but INT is out now ._. . Umm...
FLE 8/2 steps are useful.
FLE K, A+B is a good combo, always has been.
DGF K to 6B+KKKKK..., is a good troll combo xD.
DGF A's are useful, and almost never fails (it hasn't yet for me) to hit somebody when they're behind you.
DGF > SDF traversion is excellent.

MED stuff? I don't even know where to begin.
MED A+B is still around, and still awesome as ever.
MED 6A+B(or was it B+K?),K is the most useful last ditch move ever.
MED B's, K's, and A's teleport Yoshi in front of the opponent and do the according move,
With the Addition of Yoshi's A+K moves in MED, you can do a 1K into 2B+K, A+K and then do a A+B teleport.

Btw...
Never live down Yoshi's pogo (A+B jumps) in FLE.. Their the icing of the cake.

Edit: Feel free to take this down if you feel it's useless. Also, 66A+B into FLE is useful as hell. 44B+K into MED is bauce.
I definitely agree with that, I've fought a few Yoshi's online, and I never see them use it. I know it seems like it's unsafe and easily punishable (and it is), but it can really make an opponent take a few steps back while they figure out what exactly are you trying to do.
 

Havic

[08] Mercenary
Also, pogostick hops wasn't used alot by Yoshis in SCIV because it used to be on A+K.


Suicide shenanigans!

1k > G (turnaround) > NO FEAR (MED A+K) > MANJI BLOOD STAR (A)
You'll be open for some sort of launcher while your MBS is coming out but hopefully your opponent got so traumatized by the kangaroo kick they'll just crouch block in fear or you have one of those tech happy dudes who'll just be standing there thinking he can tech after that high launch. You can teleport if you do miss or go for another MBS.

1k > 8A > 2_4_6_8A+B > SDGF 4A+K
Yoshimitsu can now move a whole body length if you input a 4 or a 6 with the SDGF A+K but now you kinda have to touch 'em with the sword instead of your foot like in SCIV. The reason I put 2_4_6_8A+B is because you re-align when you move. Re-align if they're smart enough to air control. If they don't air control, it's pretty guranteed that'll you hit the flying suicide.

1k > 2A+K, A+K
Yoshimitsu couldn't double suicide without during that turning around thing but now he can do it from just neutral standing. The first 2A+K should hit and if they try to tech get up or whatever they'll get hit again.

3b > aB+K > 44B+K or 66A+B > MED > NO FEAR> MANJI BLOOD STAR >
Just like the first one but now your opponent has a bigger window to get out of the way or hit you out of it.


It looks like the heal from 2A+K,A. . . random if you hit the right frame. Record yourself in training and see. They also made it random if you if you recover or not if you JF the spinning attacks (ex. 4AAAAA). Check out the command list and see the game do it. Looks like Yoshimitsu's more of a gambler than Dampierre!
 

VincentVanBro

[08] Mercenary
This thread is rich. So BAMP.

I've been trying to expand on a couple things:

2A+B FLE > DGF K launch. If the DGF K is blocked, I get wrecked for not reponding quick enough. DGF K and B are a little to slow. Maybe a SDGF B or some other shenans? Ideas?

Also, 9B+K > B+K DGF seems kinda silly when it connects due to it putting you behind your opponet. I read earlier about DGF A hitting behind Yoshi is quick and works well, but is there anyway I could extend it's use?
 

JT_the_Ninja

[09] Warrior
2A+B FLE > DGF K launch. If the DGF K is blocked, I get wrecked for not reponding quick enough. DGF K and B are a little to slow. Maybe a SDGF B or some other shenans? Ideas?
One thing that just occurred to me would be (every once in a while) to mess with someone by doing DGF 2B+K off a blocked FLE K...nobody would throw a low at you, so it really only depends on how much time you have after the blocked FLE K...I'll have to look it up in the guide sometime (unless someone else here has it handy). It's probably not altogether safe to do, but if you have an opponent who hesitates or chokes on seeing something unexpected, it would be pretty funny to do...

Also, 9B+K > B+K DGF seems kinda silly when it connects due to it putting you behind your opponet. I read earlier about DGF A hitting behind Yoshi is quick and works well, but is there anyway I could extend it's use?
It's actually 9B+K, [K]. Just putting that out there. The regular two-hitting version is 9B+K, K, but if you hold the K the second stomp doesn't come out, instead transitioning to DGF. Also, if you go behind your opponent after landing it, use DGF A's deceptive range and decent speed+guard break. []
 

VincentVanBro

[08] Mercenary
One thing that just occurred to me would be (every once in a while) to mess with someone by doing DGF 2B+K off a blocked FLE K...nobody would throw a low at you, so it really only depends on how much time you have after the blocked FLE K...I'll have to look it up in the guide sometime (unless someone else here has it handy). It's probably not altogether safe to do, but if you have an opponent who hesitates or chokes on seeing something unexpected, it would be pretty funny to do...[]
It's the DGF K I'm taking about. It the K launch in DGF to follow with DGF A+B arial. The DGF K gets blocked, I normally get a vertial to the face. Although, DGF > MED is still a pretty funny idea... This just occured to me, but can you still quick dash in DGF with 9B+K or 3B+K? I didn't play Yoshi much before this, so excuse me if I'm making stuff up :D.



It's actually 9B+K, [K]. Just putting that out there. The regular two-hitting version is 9B+K, K, but if you hold the K the second stomp doesn't come out, instead transitioning to DGF. Also, if you go behind your opponent after landing it, use DGF A's deceptive range and decent speed+guard break. []
Ah, 9B+K, [K]. Got it. What about after connecting with the DGF A? Maybe some MED fun?
 

RedDjinn

Dat Hillbilly
2B+K off blocked Flea K probably wouldnt work ... Pretty much as soon as the Flea K is blocked you are at their mercy even if they hesitate alot lol
 

JT_the_Ninja

[09] Warrior
@Vincent: Right, the FLE K transition into DGF. DGF K is the low juggling kick. And yes, you can do 2_6_9_4A+B to quick move in DGF, although it costs some health. Actually, that might be something to see, whether or not you can (if you have health to waste) save yourself punishment and possibly a launcher by DGF dashing.

And yes, I can imagine that since you're at advantage after blocked DGF A you can pretty much go into MED with impunity. []
 

RedDjinn

Dat Hillbilly
@Vincent: Right, the FLE K transition into DGF. DGF K is the low juggling kick. And yes, you can do 2_6_9_4A+B to quick move in DGF, although it costs some health. Actually, that might be something to see, whether or not you can (if you have health to waste) save yourself punishment and possibly a launcher by DGF dashing.

And yes, I can imagine that since you're at advantage after blocked DGF A you can pretty much go into MED with impunity. []
I rather go into SDGF after blocked DGF A, throw, or do DGF K as it will make it a i14 low but alot of people look for DGF K after A is blocked... I like throws or SDGF because SDGF has actual mix ups you can use unlike MED... MED stance is actually good for nothing and its unsafe as hell on every move except maybe empty teleport.

You dont have time to save yourself punishement from anything after blocked Flea K telling you your at like - 30 and to transition or move would take at least 20 frames LOL so hopefully nobody is going to sit there for a whole second and let you do yoshi stances... I have seen worse though... shit Ill go into flea then med then throw people so you never know but against competent players usually more than one stance transition isnt going to work.
 

JT_the_Ninja

[09] Warrior
Hrm...now if only Yoshi's throws hit crouching opponents, that would be a viable addition to the mix-up game...you're right that most people are going to look for the sweep after DGF A, since that leads to so much damage, which means they're most often going to be ducking, meaning throws would whiff. I guess you could train the opponent over the course of the match to expect DGF B instead, but that would take some conditioning and would really only be for style points, since stance throws only add 5 dmg (60 vs 55).

So essentially only EVER use FLE K if you know it's going to hit, or you're in a world of trouble...[]
 

RedDjinn

Dat Hillbilly
Hrm...now if only Yoshi's throws hit crouching opponents, that would be a viable addition to the mix-up game...you're right that most people are going to look for the sweep after DGF A, since that leads to so much damage, which means they're most often going to be ducking, meaning throws would whiff. I guess you could train the opponent over the course of the match to expect DGF B instead, but that would take some conditioning and would really only be for style points, since stance throws only add 5 dmg (60 vs 55).

So essentially only EVER use FLE K if you know it's going to hit, or you're in a world of trouble...[]
Basicly you can test your opponent with 2{A+B} when they wake up, do 2A+B then just Flea B since its safe... if it hits they werent blocking or trying to step, if you get CH then they were trying to hit you... Next time do K since you know they are going to try to hit you after it... Most of the time the very first time you do 2A+B on block they are going to try to hit you... Ill usually wait to whip the K out after a couple Flea {B}'s cuz they get conditioned for me to do that move after it and try to interupt since its slow.

Stance Throws work very well... 10 more dmg than your normal A throw and they are unexpected, plus it makes the animation coming out of a certain stance look very weird sometimes... DGF B is ok after A but can be interupted by a move 22 frames or less... Throwing out of MED and SDGF are my favs... I need to do it out of SDGF more its awesome cuz everyone trys to step the UB.
 

JT_the_Ninja

[09] Warrior
Hrm...on that note, how effective is side-twirling with FLE 2_8? It would theoretically be possible to come up with frame data for how long it takes to evade verts, at least...no help vs. horizontals, of course. Then again, there's also FLE 2A+B. []
 

RedDjinn

Dat Hillbilly
Hrm...on that note, how effective is side-twirling with FLE 2_8? It would theoretically be possible to come up with frame data for how long it takes to evade verts, at least...no help vs. horizontals, of course. Then again, there's also FLE 2A+B. []
Yea I think we had this info before but not sure if anyones done it yet in the new game... Flea to DGF is an awesome transition... will jump highs mids verts all kinds of shit if you time it right... I find it weird though that now to spin u just hold 2 or 8 you dont tap it... same with walking...

I would consider A+B hold a stance that evades all highs... LOL My friend did shark attack at me lastnight and on the A+B part I did A+B and he flew right over me... Also BT A+B,K is +2 on block and puts them in FC position making iMCF 8 frames and them being in FC to beat it! Wicked set up if you ever get teh chance to do it!

Well I forgot to take in the frames it takes to turn around... Soo maybe not that wicked but still good LOL
 

Gabedamien

I Want To Be Happy
One thing that I’ve found... since 22_66_88 A+B cancel into FLE is much quicker than it used to be, FLE K has been catching a lot of people unawares. Not sure if it would work with someone a little more advanced / defensive than the online crowd though.