Yoshi's Top 10 moves(Namuuuu...)

The only problem with 3B+K is it's AT LEAST -25 on block. I stopped testing after I determined that. That's more than enough frames for an opponent to hit you, even if they don't know it's punishable. =(
 
Hey, what's your opinion on FC JF :aB:? Also, have any of you found any difficulty in pulling this off? I know I have a better time doing Nightmare's a:G:A than this move.
 
It's abbreviation is iMCF (Instant Manji Carve Fist). Some would say it is a staple in Yoshi's game, others might not think so. All in all, it is a great move, 9 frames, leads to amazing combos and knockdown > wakeup strategies. Some people find it hard to do, but with enough practice, it becomes fairly easy and is IMO one of the best moves in the game. Close range pressure with iMCF = win.
 
Best move in no particular order, since Yoshi is mostly good pulling theses moves at the good times:

iMFC or FCMFC....I am only able to do it in FC, but I do know that the move is really useful to be in the top 10. Stun, 9 frames, fastest interrupt even if the range is not that good... Always practicing to get it one day -_-

6k....depending of the situation 6kk or 6k2k...... Great for punisher or juggle damage (even if the helm slipper is better)

a:B+K The helm splitter ! only good when the opponent is in the air, since it will guarantee a RO when close of the edge

66A+B Nice wake up attack and somewhat safe on block since the opponent is normally getting up

9A+B G or 2 My favorite unblockable attack, really fast and really useful as a wakeup attack since it will hit a crouch opponent, too bad it can be step, but it will hit an opponent that stop stepping when the move is going down.

214 A+G The rainbow drop, nice throw when you are close of being RO. Do that throw and you'll bring the opponent outside and this is giving you the win ! Anyway, even if you don't like to that only for the RO, this is causing great damage.

B+G 4 Throw that give you back health, no negative point unless you miss it and give health to the enemy -_-'

FLEA....for the dodging possibility, for the low attack possible, quite hard to handle but really useful and fun XD

6 A+K 4....Useful to stop any opponent to sidestep close of you, and give you the throw for stealing health, not a spammable move but since it is a special throw, it cannot be escape (or I am wrong oO) unless the opponent duck which will happen if he block the first move...

MED 2A+B....Teleport behind the opponent giving you back the edge of the battle when fighting against some long range character. Not close enough for the throw most of the time, so you have to be creative to use that to your advantage...

Edit: There are way many other attacks that I like, but not enough place in 10 to say it all ! not all safe though...
 
Asta: My only gripe with 214A+G is the position you're in after you complete the throw. A+G, which does slightly less damage, gives you better position for wakes. But, I guess the trade off is a smaller break window and slightly more damage. So, to each his own in terms of throws.

Bryan: Yes, that is true. You get K or a:B+K for free after either of those throws.

This is why I only throw out 214A+G when my back is to the edge of the stage.
 
That's why you use the B throw to mix it up. It's practically free damage against someone you know is going to be breaking A.
 
Or they're going to duck and punish, which will sometimes result in a ring out. If you're right against the edge and you have a strong opponent, it's usually better to push your opponent back unless you're positive they're not going to duck your throw on reaction / in anticipation. Depending on the opponent's character, you may still be able to go for a rainbow drop or a throw after you've pushed them out a bit. Many people can ring you out if you're right next to the edge. Not everyone can do it from a small / medium distance.
 
yep, I agree with hajime... I'd much rather get the A grap for a ringout, but good players duck against yoshi at the edge like no other because he has no mid attack that can back ringout (too bad...). A missed grapple can lead to you getting finished off, but thats not to say you can't ever TRY it. After you push back..even a VERY VERY slight amount, people tend to forget about rainbow drop and THAT is a better time to use it. Hell, depending on the lvl and your angle you can pretty much zip them across the screen with a 44bB mid-air combo for your own ringout or at least a reset in position. You do that once in a set of matches and someone will stop ducking RIGHT away at the edge. And if you get an impact near the edge, depending on health and how much you trust in yourself, THEN throw out a B grapple to move the rest of the way away from the edge. Honestly its all opponent specific, but just attempting to A throw at the edge (I know I do it sometimes when I'm low low on hp and the other person has near full) will usually just end with the round ending in the other person's favor.

Added:

To the B+G 4 throw, useful in moderation but not a move I use that often. Generally I'd rather give 55 damage to the opponent or no damage to myself on a break. Its not a matter of "missing" its a matter of your opponent breaking or not breaking and if you used the normal version or the anti-break version. While yoshi and many characters are about mindgames...this move is more a mindgame with yourself...which is confusing to you ..and not your opponent necessarily..lol.
Note: if you can land imcf consistently after this move it ends up having a little more use as a lot of people will try to get an attack in after it finishes...and if they don't attack you can take a step and grapple or 3b (if they tend to duck).

Honestly...in if this was theory fighter 4 then FLEA would be a top 10 move. But HONESTLY..it is not. I have never seen someone use FLEA to its real "potential" except for in a training video by RDDK...and my philo is that if it hasn't been done consistently in a match yet, it can't be considered. Flea B is a useful move because its not horrible on block, but to some extent that is just a safe-ish way of getting OUT of flea without being penetrated. FLEA K is ...for the most part...a bad joke unless used because you KNOW they will be attacking right away... although there are worse moves to bust out. B+K in FLEA is just a out of stance change to FC which is okay for mind games, but generally isn't used that much. Hopping in FLEA usually gets you punished, but I tend to do it sometimes after attempting 2 [a+b] on wakes in order to hop over them or jump high to dodge a slow move..but honestly it either just ends with a wasted wake or with getting punished. Honestly..who has anyone seen that consistently uses 22 or 2A+K to dodge? People use it when they are IN FLEA..not because they got into flea for defense..that would be silly. If you went to FLEA or DGF for a low dodge then you are gonna hit them with FLEA b or DGF k. (I do this with DGF more often then with flea because its easier for my mind to think press 8 to dodge a low(and then also just press b+k). A out of FLEA is crap...its just a punishable reset...and [K] is only really useful to get on the ground (honestly I don't see WHY you'd want to do that... but some ppl think that rolling away from an edge is easier than 8WR from the edge) or as a finishing hit. FLEA has its uses..but its EXTREMELY situational and opponent specific...useful..sure..top 10...nuh uhh.

6 a+K 4... I already said that B+G 4/6 is an okay move.. but generally I'd rather use just B+g...but NOW you put an easily blockable move to start it off?!?! And make it so my opponent will KNOW they can break B most of the time to reverse my health steal!! BAAHH!

med 2 A+B on its own tends to only work against big range characters... 44 b+k: 2B+K, 2 A+B (after the 2B+K your in med) has always felt like a better option....it gets you closer..so less chance of a stupid teleport in front of them.. and The roll tends to either a- make them hold block b-8WR which leads to you getting a 6A+B attempt (or other move) to the back or c- charge you which leads to a whiff and you are behind them with frames. Top 10 over moves like bA?? no...





Hmm...My best 10 moves?

1. 4A+K
LOL...silly code

My Yoshi 10 best moves...
01- 4A+K at 48, 38, 28, 21, 11, 01s

and..silly rddk??

Come on, 4 A+K can be said to be top 10 maybe, but not number 1.

1. BB/AA (honestly the BB/AA of almost everyone should be put at #1 on a list because the characters NEED them)

2. imcf (ringout deaths, leads to high damage, semi-spammable against certain players/characters)

3. 3k (pokey pokey pokey pokey.. If it weren't for the fact that BB does more damage and tends to work a little better for buffering imcf I'd put this maybe at 1 or 2)

4. 44b/44bB/44bA (huge ringouts/techtrap like RDDK said/ and a good quick keep away move)

5.3a/3ab/3b (staple launcher and staple launcher + a mind game..huge ringout potential)

6. a:b+K (leads to 8A+B2 on CH on ground and finishes mid-air combos)

7. 214A (highly under-appreciated move that leads to ringouts and good damage. Readable as all hell, but the TC and slight 8WR properties it has..it dodges BB's at a certain point in the animation...make this still a good choice [although 7 might be too high..but it is top 15...its on the list here to give it recognition..lol])

8. iFC 3k (probably his easiest move to get ppl into wakes. I've heard the arguments.. but I honestly feel ppl don't block it on reaction but rather anticipation of a low. Its also great after a blocked imcf)

9. 66 A+B (g) variations (tricky-mitsu..good on wakes..canceled into imcf or grapples)

10. 4 A+K (if used in the right situation the variety and tricks of this move can really screw an opponent up. Drawback is that you have to put a little bit of concentration away from your defense/game plan in order to watch the clock)

While I just finished calling some moves NOT top 10 worthy... I feel it necessary to note that yoshi is probably about the only character that uses SO many different moves and uses them well and situationally that a top 10 isn't fair. I mean looking at my top 10 there is no DNK (necessary move), no 33B b+k variations (very good tool for closing gaps or even just safely launching), no 4A: series (i'd put this top 3 if it weren't for the fact that nobody can get the move 100% or even all that close to 100% without falling), no REF stance (if you have the time to turn around before a move hits you get huge damage and possible huge heal from a+b counter and its fun as hell to use...REF A is hated on for being anticipated but its good on wake and like RDDK said you can also use his sitting suicide out of med from this stance if they just are holding low block all day), no other stances (DGF is great for countering lows into DGF k, DNK, 3b or other non-guaranteed wakes...I hated on FLEA but its still useful just not top 10...and SDGF is a good mixup if used sparringly (even good players fall for its shit offline if they don't play yoshi ALL the time)), no 9 K (wall combos and just a quick less thinking way of getting over a low without having to anticipated it at all), no 2k (his only real low poke..which is good for interrupts)...no Ba (nice against anticipated grapples/slower moves) and plenty of others that anyone could relatively fairly put as a top 10 for themselves and not be looked with a WTF? face.

Yoshi is a highly durable switchable character. I can play him one way round 1 another round 2 and a completely different way round 3..and all three ways I play him I can win (try doing that with..say..hilde..lol). And that is why yoshi imo is one of the most fun characters to play as.

Edit: okay... I'm finished writing my wall of post..next person's turn..
 
...he has no mid attack that can back ringout (too bad...).

His only mid-attack RO is 1K, g~9K. Debatable whether it will be useful in tournament play. I'd say I'm 35-40/55-60 in casuals. But that's because I just throw it randomly hoping to dodge highs and throws.
 
Well actually, there is a trick that yoshi can do to RO while facing back with a mid. Upon using 1K (Though slow and probably blocked on reaction) if you time everything juuuuust right, you can run under them, turn around, and aB+K them off the ledge. ive done it a few times, but I try to never ring people out so I don't really ever use it. Ive only done it about 3 times when I was desperate throughout my whole Yoshi carreer.


And trust me GATOR, 4A+K if used effectively is the best move in the game. What you should understand is that there are 12 useful moves packed into 1 input, and even though the argument is that it can only be activated at certain times, that really does not detract from its usefullness, yet adds onto how good it is. Il explain.

I have for the past 3 months been able to completely watch the clock and fight at the same time. I have memorized what comes out when and in what situations it might prove useful in. The times confuse others as to what might come out of it next, but not me. I know exactly when to pop a T3 and T6 to avoid everything. When to shorten a combo for a free T4 and when to jump a possible low/throw for massive damage with a T0. I realize that many people have hard times comprehending that this is even that great, but if you truly master the clock and his moves it is literally the best move in the game. I don't know how effectively RDDK uses it (Though I will guess to a great extent as well,) but im promising you that if you take the few weeks to completely master it, 4A+K will be the best move in your arsenal.

Oh, and P.S. I never ever ever ever EVER use BB/AA with yoshi or any of my characters (except AB sometimes with raph) and I do great without it. No lie.
 
I'll make the argument that FLE and DGF are in Yoshi's top 10. Yoshi SEVERELY lacks good punishers when blocking lows. WS B_K are highs and won't punish lows that end with the opponent TCing. WS A is a mid, but it turns both of you around into BT and at +1. That +1 doesn't get you much against characters that have fast BT B+K attacks or if you're fighting Voldo. Furthermore, it does crap for damage. Nothing like what Cervy or Sets gets when they block something low. FC 1K punishes some things for free, but it nets ~30 damage at most and leaves you at disadvantage on hit. Where am I going with this?

Going into FLE / DGF to avoid a low on reaction / anticipation nets you 50-60 damage and maybe even a RO. FLE / DGF options ARE Yoshi's big low punishers. By entering these stances you avoid lows and throws. The only thing you fail to avoid in those stances are highs. The good news is, if you get hit by a mid because you anticipated wrong, you were going to get hit anyways by ducking and you likely avoided extra damage by getting hit in the air (think 3B).

FLE enters TJ faster, so you should stick to FLE when you need to TJ as soon as possible (i.e. Amy's 3BA). Since FLE requires a neutral input, DGF is the natural choice if you're grounded or you're ducking a string and want to punish the second low (i.e. Taki's bombs).

While I'm not completely avoiding all lows with FLE and DGF, I'm making a serious effort to do so. You'd be surprised how effective it is to punish 2A, 2K, Cervy's 1K, etc. on anticipation and slow lows on reaction with FLE K and DGF K.


Gator: I'd have to agree that codemaster is correct. 4A+K is definitely up there. Specifically for Jin's Electric Fists, Kunimitsu's UB, and Kazuya's UB. The rest of the Tekken moves (sans taunts) have their uses, but come with risks.


Codemaster: 1K, g~8K is easier and ROs really far back and to the right. I suggest using that over 1K, a:B+K.


By not using AA and BB, you're doing yourself a great injustice.

Not every character has an i11 AA. Hell, not every character has an i12 attack. =/ AA is one of his only fast step killers and a solid punishment tool. AA is Yoshi's bread and butter punisher on everything that's -14 or worse on block (read: most opponent's 3Bs, and Sieg's WS {B}). AA basically shuts down some of Sieg's main tools for free.

BB is Yoshi's most damaging safest mid that's i16 or less. Spamming BB will teach overly aggressive players that they need to block. Also, the second hit of BB has a reasonable amount of tracking to it and will catch single steppers and 8WRers. Amusingly, BB on hit does a great job setting up a BB / iFC 3K mix-up. It sound silly, but if you spam enough BB you get iFC 3K at max range for free.
 
4A+K is top 10, I guess I should have mentioned that I have no real set order to them for the most part except for the first 3. I agree that 4A+K can be a great move, but the fact that it comes out as different things at different times HAS to detract from its "value." His dodges from 4A+K are good, but I don't see how a dodge can equal the best move if its not a counter that does damage as well. Jin's parry is nice and all, but most of the time you could have impacted instead anyway. I understand there are moves inside the move that are good... but do any of those moves on their own beat out imcf/BB/AA/3k (poke) for staple use? no... if you add all them together maybe... but you can only use one of thsoe moves at a time...so..yea

And did mention somewhere using flea and DGF for low evasion..somewhere in that wall of text...lol. I just said it wasn't top 10, but still a good option.

I TOTALLY forgot about 1K working for a ringout backwards. What is the frames on block of it though? because its probably not the best option if they are at all patient and are able to punish me off a cliff.....

I guess the point at the end might have been missed,

"Yoshi has so many different good moves its impossible to make a list of his top 10 because it leaves out so many other great moves"

There is no point in debating over 4A+K..its a good move..end of story. Its just not the move you are gonna use to punish 99% of the time.
 
Gator: The wall of text was too much for me! haha.

1K is an i36 that is -12 on block. Slow, but mostly safe. Keep in mind, 1K is not the same as 33B B+K A+B K. That K is like..-23 or something.

I'd have to say 4A+K gets better or worse depending on the matchup, based on the both the opponent's character and his/her playstyle. My one good example of 4A+K being amazing is against Cervy. Cervy's WS A, aK leaves him BT and you at a disadvantage. T6 (Tekken 6. Code's notation, I think) avoids all of Cervy's BT mix-up options. T3 stops all but the BT 2K. T2 dodges everything. So, 3/10 Tekken moves can avoid Cervy's most common damage dealer.

Of course, as you've said, Yoshi has way too many good moves. It would almost be better to discuss top moves in an anti-character thread, because that's where the meat of this discussion is. What moves are better and worse against which characters? I know there are certain moves I completely abuse and cut out of my game based on the matchup.
 
and..silly rddk??
Come on, 4 A+K can be said to be top 10 maybe, but not number 1.
This is a topic about the 10 best moves... But "best moves" for what ? :)

There is different ways to play with Yoshimitsu for win and I have noticed seven different styles:
- Basic: AA/BB/66B/FC3K/DGF/Throw/easy combos... Simple with maximum safe game.
- Classical (include basic style): techtrap, varied combos and many different moves... Normal yoshimitsu.
- Flashy (include classical): many JF and hard combos.
- Critical Finish (include basic): GI, 2[A+B]B, 4B, 9B, 44B+K, 66B, 66A+B... for CF.
- Funny (include classical): 4A+K, taunts, a lot of use of stance, rare move and risky moves...
- Ringout (include classical): only ringout (214A+G, a:B+K, 44bB, DNK...)
- Suicide (include classical): a lot of suicide, 66A+K, BT MED A+K, SDGF A+K, double suicide... very funny too.

Personally I use all these styles, depending on my opponent but the "Funny Style" is definitively my favorite :)
No matter if 4A+K makes me lose a round or a match. Since it's fun and has many disturbance capability, it's a great Yoshimitsu move !! Especially the Xiaoyu's taunt lol (4A+K~8K at T5 is also very fun).

Like you said, Yoshimitsu is one of the most fun characters to play. So I think it would be a shame to ignore the Iron-Fist Possession.
Many players say that they find Yoshimitsu very funny but they never really play Yoshimitsu in this way in serious battle.
Of course it's not recommended at very high level or against Hilde xD but why not? It's JUST RISKY and not useless :) Funny and Silly... That's the Yoshimitsu true style !!

Example of use: 4[A+K] (at T8) 6B/a:B+K/8A+B~G/4A+K...
At the beginning of the round, it's the best moment. Just run toward the opponent like if you were going to throw him and do 4A+K at 58s. The taunt is a very long unblockable high move and can launch the opponents if they do a jump attack. Also the taunt can stop some WS and FC attacks.

Definitively MY best move !!


PS: excuse my bad English. thx.
 
Gator: The wall of text was too much for me! haha.

1K is an i36 that is -12 on block. Slow, but mostly safe. Keep in mind, 1K is not the same as 33B B+K A+B K. That K is like..-23 or something.

T2 dodges everything. So, 3/10 Tekken moves can avoid Cervy's most common damage dealer.

Of course, as you've said, Yoshi has way too many good moves. It would almost be better to discuss top moves in an anti-character thread, because that's where the meat of this discussion is. What moves are better and worse against which characters? I know there are certain moves I completely abuse and cut out of my game based on the matchup.

Maybe I'll try that sometime...the 1k for a backwards ringout...-12 indeed isn't enough to get punished for the ringout (unless they hit you mid animation...i36..lol...but its kinda obvious its slow as hell...)

And T2 won't dodge grapples...another option for cervy...but I digress

I agree about it more useful for a top 10 anti-character list. I really do change my style to fit the opponent/character. If they play safe, use BB a lot ect. I tend to use BB more, slow moves in general less. There are tech traps that certain ppl avoid EVERY time. 236 B is awesome after ear slicer if they don't tech left or anything...but most ppl that are good do..so the move gets avoided. imcf even has opponents I tend to not use it against...and then there are others I spam that shit like there is no tomorrow.

This is a topic about the 10 best moves... But "best moves" for what ? :)

There is different ways to play with Yoshimitsu for win and I have noticed seven different styles:
- Basic: AA/BB/66B/FC3K/DGF/Throw/easy combos... Simple with maximum safe game.
- Classical (include basic style): techtrap, varied combos and many different moves... Normal yoshimitsu.
- Flashy (include classical): many JF and hard combos.
- Critical Finish (include basic): GI, 2[A+B]B, 4B, 9B, 44B+K, 66B, 66A+B... for CF.
- Funny (include classical): 4A+K, taunts, a lot of use of stance, rare move and risky moves...
- Ringout (include classical): only ringout (214A+G, a:B+K, 44bB, DNK...)
- Suicide (include classical): a lot of suicide, 66A+K, BT MED A+K, SDGF A+K, double suicide... very funny too.

Personally I use all these styles, depending on my opponent but the "Funny Style" is definitively my favorite :)
No matter if 4A+K makes me lose a round or a match. Since it's fun and has many disturbance capability, it's a great Yoshimitsu move !! Especially the Xiaoyu's taunt lol (4A+K~8K at T5 is also very fun).

Like you said, Yoshimitsu is one of the most fun characters to play. So I think it would be a shame to ignore the Iron-Fist Possession.
.

I totally agree...there are a bunch of ways to play him any given round. Yesterday I spent 90% of my time doing stance evasions, 4A+B, 4A+K, REF counter, and all his other JF's. Its just fun to play like that. (Although when you win despite handicapping yourself with moves like 4A+B (useful when used right of course...but I was spamming it for fun) you end up getting kicked quick). Honestly the "ideal" yoshi is a mix of all of those. Flashy at times ..which leads to ringouts... suicides when your down by a lot... getting the big risk reward moves to work right, using your safe punishers, BB/AA when necessary or to buffer imcf, Huge wall combos that make the opponent feel like its an in-game cinema, and just psychin' the opponent out with tricky crap that does look or feel like it should work...but does. A well used yoshi is crazy AND collected. .... .... now if only I could learn what T9 really does in 4A+K.... I just want to see it be some weird crap nobody has thought of yet...like if you do it when you have less than 10% health you health swap...or ..SOMETHING CRAZY
 
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