Raphael's SCV Command List

Pokes suck in this game anyway, throwing out BB's and possibly getting stepped and launched is just not worth it. I only use that move sometimes if my opponent has been aggressively running in from distance. So far the game revolves around trying to catch people in as many combos as possible and making big plays as often as possible.
 
I agree with hudathan, especially after seeing avoid the puddles just guard video, each poke is going to need a lot of thought behind it. 22a is safe to my knowlegde, 33a is not. 6ab is + when going to prep. I dont have any facts though, needs testing.
Could you give me some factual framedata from other characters so i can test?
 
AB is still pretty good since you can make people stand still with it. 6K is also reliable as usual, especially since getting hit out of the air isn't as punishing. Otherwise all you really need to poke with is some 33B here and there while waiting to 22B/66B people. Other evasive moves such as 4A and the new 1K are also useful in spots as people are generally going to be playing more aggressive in this game.
 
236B with clean hit = "AMY!!!!!"

Maybe the single reason i use japanese voices
 
Scrubbed with Ralph for a little bit in a day 0 tournament/pre-release party, gotta say I'm pretty disappointed with how Ralph turn out in SC5. From what I heard PS worked to improve Ralph, but all in all it was just a few additional moves and nothing else. Ralph still suffer majorly from step-G or just stepping in general. His new toys doesn't do crap against steppers. 22A is nice but very slow, and only deal damage if you waste a full bar, 33A is slow as hell, short range and does nothing on hit. He needs a horizontal on par with Nm/Seig aGA to actually make people afraid to step. Damage wise, compare to buffs to other characters like Nm/Maxi, his damage is very average at best. Frame wise, I do not think Ralph will be good. I got interrupted by X's AA after landing CH 66A and 4k while trying to do my own AA (since you know people will step non-stop versus Ralph), that's just dumb. 33KB is still unsafe and zero tracking. BB whiffs like crazy if you try to use it to punish after a successful step. Only new changes I like are his new 44B and 22B, and that's nowhere near enough to make him feel good. Like in SC4, whenever I play Ralph I feel like I'm playing to compensate for his character weakness rather than kicking ass with his strength.
 
thinkingofaname said:
Scrubbed with Ralph for a little bit in a day 0 tournament/pre-release party, gotta say I'm pretty disappointed with how Ralph turn out in SC5. From what I heard PS worked to improve Ralph, but all in all it was just a few additional moves and nothing else. Ralph still suffer majorly from step-G or just stepping in general. His new toys doesn't do crap against steppers. 22A is nice but very slow, and only deal damage if you waste a full bar, 33A is slow as hell, short range and does nothing on hit. He needs a horizontal on par with Nm/Seig aGA to actually make people afraid to step. Damage wise, compare to buffs to other characters like Nm/Maxi, his damage is very average at best. Frame wise, I do not think Ralph will be good. I got interrupted by X's AA after landing CH 66A and 4k while trying to do my own AA (since you know people will step non-stop versus Ralph), that's just dumb. 33KB is still unsafe and zero tracking. BB whiffs like crazy if you try to use it to punish after a successful step. Only new changes I like are his new 44B and 22B, and that's nowhere near enough to make him feel good. Like in SC4, whenever I play Ralph I feel like I'm playing to compensate for his character weakness rather than kicking ass with his strength.
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This is EXACTLY how I feel...glad to see I am not the only one.
I'm trying to stay optimistic since it is day one...so I'm going to try and make him work, but I also feel like I might be wasting my time.
We'll see...
 
lets hope thats just a day 1 impression.

I don't recall raph ever having a brain-dead spammable tactic for day 1 cheese.

Not saying he's got secret tech that'll push him to top tier, but lets hope something is there
 
WuHT said:
lets hope thats just a day 1 impression.

I don't recall raph ever having a brain-dead spammable tactic for day 1 cheese.

Not saying he's got secret tech that'll push him to top tier, but lets hope something is there
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I felt that SCIV Raphael had some really good pokes! like his 6B was a good poke to me, I definitely miss that...
His prep K I miss as well, even though it was ass, it worked for me.
His prep in this game now is a little weird to me too...idk if it's just something I need to get used to...but yeah.
I'm also upset that his 4B into prep A no longer stuns... I do like that his 66A has great range as well at 33B.
 


TagYouRPregnant said:
I felt that SCIV Raphael had some really good pokes! like his 6B was a good poke to me, I definitely miss that...
His prep K I miss as well, even though it was ass, it worked for me.
His prep in this game now is a little weird to me too...idk if it's just something I need to get used to...but yeah.
I'm also upset that his 4B into prep A no longer stuns... I do like that his 66A has great range as well at 33B.
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I actually think 6B series is a improvement over his SC4 form. In SC4, the 2nd hit of his 6BB tend to whiff even when the first hit hits, and that put you at a disadvantage as well as missing damage, pretty retarded. His prep SE K new and decent, since it gives him a low to add with the mids, the problem is his stance is still nowhere near as solid as Mist stance, which is to me the standard if you actually want to rely on stance game. There is nothing more disheartening than working with a sub-par stance only you realize somewhere down the line people can react and punish all your stance moves and making your entire game plan pointless.

To me Ralph need two minimum buff to make him competitive:
22A on hit must be able to follow up with 3B series, without it Ralph has ZERO threat at range because you can literally step everything else he has, and no 15 damage or so on hit of it alone is not enough to stop people from stepping, and no frame advantage mean jack if the only thing he has at that range is another linear mid or a slow tracking high, and no spending an entire bar to combo for actual damage when many other characters get the same amount from a standard launcher or heck a standard anti-step is not enough.

Bring back his old evade from SC2 or make backstep prep into 214 and allow him the option to not prep after. Let's face it, Ralph isn't that great of a zoner (range/damage wise) compare to many long range characters, can't rush down, average frame and damage. He needs something to make him special. His evades was his thing, because even though he can't match other characters move for move, he can shutdown a good number of options from many character due to his evade. This let him keep up and possibly out play your opponent. Right now his B+K evade is a joke, if I must pick I rather have Pyrra/Soph A+B aGI instead because it actually does damage. The backstep let him do the same thing although its more mechanical rather than counter play. Currently it is way too limited and force him to prep after, which pretty much kills whatever advantage he gained from back stepping in the first place.

Don't think PS will listen to me however. As of now at best I can hope for Ralph is a average mid tier, with some very bad match up against some of the other long range characters. At worse he is as bad as he was in SC4 relative to the other cast.
 
We got a wishlist thread, feel free to add to it. Maybe there might be heavier changes come patch time, so you should get your voiced heard.
 
thinkingofaname said:
Scrubbed with Ralph for a little bit in a day 0 tournament/pre-release party, gotta say I'm pretty disappointed with how Ralph turn out in SC5. From what I heard PS worked to improve Ralph, but all in all it was just a few additional moves and nothing else. Ralph still suffer majorly from step-G or just stepping in general. His new toys doesn't do crap against steppers. 22A is nice but very slow, and only deal damage if you waste a full bar, 33A is slow as hell, short range and does nothing on hit. He needs a horizontal on par with Nm/Seig aGA to actually make people afraid to step. Damage wise, compare to buffs to other characters like Nm/Maxi, his damage is very average at best. Frame wise, I do not think Ralph will be good. I got interrupted by X's AA after landing CH 66A and 4k while trying to do my own AA (since you know people will step non-stop versus Ralph), that's just dumb. 33KB is still unsafe and zero tracking. BB whiffs like crazy if you try to use it to punish after a successful step. Only new changes I like are his new 44B and 22B, and that's nowhere near enough to make him feel good. Like in SC4, whenever I play Ralph I feel like I'm playing to compensate for his character weakness rather than kicking ass with his strength.
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So, we're trying -again- to win in spite of our character ? Not really a surprise, though. I wonder if the devs actually thought of a consistent gameplan for Raphael, or at least a playstyle. After all, martial artists adopt a strategy because they think it is effective, not because it's stylish, graceful or I don't know what...

@dmcking : thanks a ton ! You are god-like.
 
i also had that idea on day 1: raph felt limited and not so evasive as before, but after practicing a few nights i got together with friends and could already hold my own very well, people had to be on guard at all times as he always has his best tools at hand. they needed to be on point with spacing and whiffing because 236b, 22b, 3b, 22a, 66b would open them up if they didn't. these moves are fast enough to effectively delay, re-pressuring sidesteppers too.
 
There are plenty of ways raph can do damage in this game as long as you stop trying to control every moment of every round. Raph has never been the type of basic day one character that plays itself. If you ever feel like you're not applying enough of his strengths vs his weaknesses in a match, that's the game telling you to work harder and it makes you better in the long run. With a couple of specific exceptions, raph is currently far better than he was in sc4 as far as being a more well rounded package.
 
Anyone who says Raph is low or mid tier in this game is full of caca!
I mained Raph in SC2 and he is on par in SCV, maybe even better!
 
This Raphael is everything I ever wished for. No really, it's like Namco put up on their whiteboard day 1 by copypasting from one of my posts here. Data on 1K confirms it's "just a 4B that's not a weapon." I don't care about the risk. I don't even dislike BB misaligning on response to step whiff.

Hudathan said:
There are plenty of ways raph can do damage in this game as long as you stop trying to control every moment of every round.
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You can't control your opponent's inputs. So that's uninteresting. You can expect every moment of every round. I don't follow your defeatism.
Raph has never been the type of basic day one character that plays itself. If you ever feel like you're not applying enough of his strengths vs his weaknesses in a match, that's the game telling you to work harder and it makes you better in the long run. With a couple of specific exceptions, raph is currently far better than he was in sc4 as far as being a more well rounded package.
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Truth.

@Fendante ;)
You plebian!
Pathetic. (much more feeling in this! and Japanese 6B+K)
The finale -! ... how pitiful.
And new 66B .. takes it to a whole new level

Additions:
CH 3A -> remember it goes to wallsplat combo. Raph has corner pressure + with B+G.
44A on NH it puts people in BT. 44A(B) enters prep vs. backturned opponent. What now?
1A loses out for as long as 8G is around. I look at it as "wake up, I can use lows" attack. Can range still make it safe?
 
You play raph like any other character in this game: make big plays for the big damage.

Just something I've been noticing: 3(B) and 66(B) are his best Prep entries while both 6A(B) and 6B(B) leaves him at definitely disadvantage on block. 3(B) on block allows Prep BB to interrupt Pyrrha's AA for a counter-hit BE set up, the trade-off being Prep BB having bad frames on block should the opponent choose to simply defend. Without definite frame data this early it's still fairly safe to assume that 3(B) is probably at least neutral on block.
 
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